Discipline

[Spirit_Soul]

In that society the husband depends on the wife, he cannot live with out her. So too the wife depends on the husband and she cannot live with out him .

It is made that way for a reason , so that they can be more intimate with each other. If there is too much independence in a family, what will happen is quarrel. The husband says one thing and the wife says another. They have this thought that they can live without one another. Thus making it very easy to get a divorce.

In many eastern families, it is very hard to get a divorce, because the husband and the wife both know that they need one another. The husband and wife sometimes fight, but the quarrel ends with them compromising with each other.

It will not end in a divorce (even really big fights) and it will never split up a family into two. The best relationships in the world(both western and eastern) are the ones in which both partners are dependent on each other.

 

[Spirit_Soul]

Originally posted by jimnyc
Something is seriously wrong with society when it deems equal opportunity as fair and just.



So society will tell me what my "best ability" is? Bullshit, people should be free to exercise their own abilities and pursue their own goals. That's something that should be worldwide and not held back by society or local customs.



And in many instances it is, and it's those instances that we are discussing. Society accepting it as a whole doesn't make the women who are complaining wrong, and it certainly doesn't justify the men that abuse their wives.

Jimnyc, I do not know what your status is , however I ask you to not be ignorant when you say "Bullshit, thats not the way it is supposed to be" .

With my advocation of that system of the society, I was trying to say that it is a different system which is fair in its own way. Just like this system , where equality of opportunity is also fair in its own way.

You may not agree with me, but the best of ability is not something the society tells you, it is something natural. When something is natural , why deny it?

and when you talk about domestic violence, nothing justifies any sort of violence, whether it be a fight between a man and a man or a man and a woman. Nothing justifies physical violence. I agree that people need to give more rights to women, including the right to have education, but this type of system has been working perfectly for centuries. What needs to be stopped is the way husbands treat their housewives , not the system .

 

[janeeng]

I wish that rule pertained to me! hahahaha! I HAVE TO WORK! I don't know about other countries, but here in the United States, or atleast here in NJ, you just can't survive on one salary unless the Husband/Wife is making excellent money!

I would have to say though, the fact that your NOT ALLOWED to work doesn't seem right! A women should be given the choice, some would like to be doctors and all, and they should be given the choice to decide what THEY want to do, not what's permitted.

 

[aqeelabbas]

Boy you are a very good scholar ...
But you can never convince a person who doesnt want to be convinced and the one who believes that listening to scholarly and logical stuff will BRAINWASH him...

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by Spirit_Soul
What needs to be stopped is the way husbands treat their housewives

Is that not how this discussion got started? Do you as well feel that it doesn't exist in the Muslim community at all? Nobody ever said all Muslims. Let's hear it, Spirit, does it in fact exist at all? aqeelabbas claims it doesn't exist and I am making it up. Are my articles all false?

 

[Spirit_Soul]

Originally posted by jimnyc
Is that not how this discussion got started? Do you as well feel that it doesn't exist in the Muslim community at all? Nobody ever said all Muslims. Let's hear it, Spirit, does it in fact exist at all? aqeelabbas claims it doesn't exist and I am making it up. Are my articles all false?

I have to go in a few minutes, so I will make this quick...

They are not false but they are not the entire truth either. The husbands who abuse their wives are of a different category. It is not a demonic society where every one does it.

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by Spirit_Soul
The husbands who abuse their wives are of a different category. It is not a demonic society where every one does it.

And no one claimed otherwise. The discussion was aimed at the Muslim men that DO commit these acts.

 

[aqeelabbas]

YOUR DISCUSSIONS AIM AT MUSLIMS HUH? CREATE A THREAD WITH REST OF WORLD..WHY DO YOU WANT TO TARGET MUSLIMS..?

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by aqeelabbas
YOUR DISCUSSIONS AIM AT MUSLIMS HUH? CREATE A THREAD WITH REST OF WORLD..WHY DO YOU WANT TO TARGET MUSLIMS..?

Probably because you are in a forum called "Muslims".

 

[aqeelabbas]

A NEW PERSON LETS SAY X wants to study on Islam..he goes to a search engine and type Islam..he will get many links..Just like your forum; when he will open it he will find hatred against Muslims..what will be his initial reaction towards Islam? BRUTAL SAVAGE right? You remember I told you that many webpages which discuss this side of Islam like you link it to abuse..He will never come to know of women abuse in non muslim countries or other ills from non muslim societies..
NOw you get my old(very old) point when I said that webpages today focus more on bad sides regarding muslim communities and not the brighter side of Islam?
This is bad..If you want to discuss Muslim; discuss it fully..

 

[jimnyc]

A NEW PERSON LETS SAY X wants to study on Islam..he goes to a search engine and type Islam..he will get many links..Just like your forum; when he will open it he will find hatred against Muslims..

No, he will then read, unlike you, and realize there are some bad apples in the bunch. He will realize we are condemning terrorism and abuse.

You remember I told you that many webpages which discuss this side of Islam like you link it to abuse..He will never come to know of women abuse in non muslim countries or other ills from non muslim societies..

Unless he is brain dead, he will learn plenty of good stuff. I found hundreds of websites dealing with Islam and Muslims that weren't negative in any way. He will find negative stuff as well. Yep, you'll find the same if you search about the USA.

 

[jimnyc]

You say "Now comes time to prove", what do you want proven?

 

[Spirit_Soul]

Originally posted by jimnyc
And no one claimed otherwise. The discussion was aimed at the Muslim men that DO commit these acts.

The abuse happens in some cases, not all.

The abuse is not as bad as many perceive it to be, I refuse to believe that most muslim men beat their wives or even excercise this act.

 

[jimnyc]

The abuse happens in some cases, not all.

Thats all I've been saying.

The abuse is not as bad as many perceive it to be, I refuse to believe that most muslim men beat their wives or even excercise this act.

I wouldn't say most either, just way too large of an amount.

If you were told that only 2% of the entire population in the USA had AIDS, would you still think it is a serious problem that needs to be fixed?

I can't tell you the exact percentage of Muslim women that are abused as thats impossible to answer. There's enough reports to realize that it's a major problem. The fact that little is done to prevent further abuse is even more scary.

 

[eric]

WOMEN'S RIGHTS

Women in Saudi Arabia who walk unaccompanied, or are in the company of a man who is neither their husband nor a close relative, are at risk of arrest on suspicion of prostitution or other “moral” offences.
Nieves, a Filipina who was working as a maid in Riyadh in 1992, was invited by a married couple to celebrate the wife’s birthday at a restaurant. She and a female friend decided to go. At the restaurant they were joined by a male friend of the couple. A group of mutawa’een (religious police) entered the restaurant, saw the group and arrested them. They suspected Nieves of being there for an introduction to the male friend of the couple. Nieves denied the accusation, but was deceived into signing a confession written in Arabic which she understood was a release order. That confession was the sole basis of her conviction and sentence — 25 days’ imprisonment and 60 lashes which were carried out.
Women in Saudi Arabia, whether Saudi Arabian or foreign, emerge time and again as victims of discrimination and human rights violations because of the gender bias in law, social mores and traditions. While women have gained some ground in terms of economic rights, their civil and political rights are systematically violated.
Equal treatment for women and men is a fundamental principle of international human rights standards. Yet in Saudi Arabia discriminatory practices against women are not only prevalent, they are also in some cases required by law.
Strict segregation of the sexes, an integral part of Saudi Arabian society, has adverse and unequal effects on women, who are denied equal educational opportunities and may work only in certain vocations.
Women’s freedom of movement is severely restricted. They may not travel abroad unless they have the written authorization of a male relative, usually their father or husband, and may have to be accompanied. Inside Saudi Arabia, they are forbidden to drive, a ban made official in 1990 by a Fatwa (edict) issued by the Council of Senior ’Ulama (religious scholars).
Some laws are applied in a discriminatory fashion. The offence of khilwa (being alone with a male who is not an immediate relative), for example, is punishable for both men and women, but it appears to be more frequently enforced on women.
Women who breach the strict dress code for women also face arrest. Margaret Madill, a Canadian nurse working in Saudi Arabia in 1993, took a taxi home with a female friend after a shopping trip in Riyadh. Suddenly a mutawa’ jumped into the taxi and forced the driver to go to the headquarters of al-Mutawa’een. When they arrived, the women were locked in the taxi in the extreme heat for up to six hours. They screamed for help and were then beaten. They were accused of indecent dress and public intoxication. They were then transferred to al-Malaz prison and held for two days, before being released without charge.
States are forbidden to criminalize the lawful exercise of rights enshrined in international human rights standards, such as the right to freedom of movement. In addition, laws should never discriminate against a particular group or be applied in a discriminatory manner.
The abuse of women’s rights in Saudi Arabia is not simply the unfortunate consequence of overzealous security forces and religious police. It is the inevitable result of a state policy which gives women fewer rights than men, which means that women face discrimination in all walks of life, and which allows men with authority to exercise their power without any fear of being held to account for their actions.

Taken directly from Amnesty Internation Canada.

http://www.amnesty.ca/SaudiArabia/5.htm

Let me tell you this is true love !

 

[eric]

It seems to be the general concensus of Islamic scholars that the Islamic religion demands the equal rights of men and women, but unfortunately it does not work this way in practice. Which in essence means that they do not follow the religion they hold so dear, but rather pick and choose what suits their purpose, making them little more than hypocrites.

 

[Spirit_Soul]

This is very unfortunate and must be stopped, but this thread focuses on domestic violence. There is a difference between domestic and state violence.

I agree that it is not a pretty picture in saudi arabia, where women are not allowed to go out without covering their faces with a burqa.

It is also true that in saudi, one is not allowed to practice his/her religion. It is sad though, just the way that country is handled. Every one knows in that country that the royal family gives tons of money to hamas and all these other terrorist groups that help the Al Qaida network. Saudis are just completely messed up in their social values. On one hand they say true muslim law should be practiced, then on the other hand they live a very lavish and luxurious lives. Same thing with the womens' issues.

 

[eric]

Yes it is sad for sure. The reason I put it in this thread is that I strongly believe that in many societies people look to their govt. for guidance on many issues. I do not think this sets a good example for the people to follow. If they are so religious how can they justify these crimes.