DID YA HEAR? 80% of the over 250K crowd is "Small Business"!

[Care4all]

skull?

No one said it could pay for ALL the spending?

Why someone would think that we need to get all of the money from one group of people is beyond me?

NO ONE has said such, even the articles about this states that there will be medicare cuts/reforms, and other various off shore tax loop holes closed, and the hedge fund manager's tax loop hole closed and some other stuff....

so why you are acting like all of this is going on the shoulders of the millionaires and billionaire's is beyond me?

us little guys are losing as well in this mess even with the measly tax cut we get....they've been using hundreds of billions in our own surplus SS taxes to pay for this spending...and YOU KNOW that somewhere down the road they are going to reduce drastically the benefits we were promised in SS because they used all of our surplus money now...

plus inflation will hit the working class/lower to middle... MUCH HARDER than those making more because we use most all of our salaries spending on things just to LIVE....than those with more, for the most part.

And there is NO WAY in the world that we are not going to be faced with a major uptick in inflation, with all the money our government has borrowed the past decade and the decade to come....imo.

care

 

[Care4all]

The reason I have a problem with this $250 cut off is because in major cities, $250 is like $50k in rural, middle America....so i believe it should be started, but at a higher eschelon, like a $million.

The other reason I have a problem with this tax, is that most of the millionaire's and billionaires will still have a huge tax advantage over the WORKING RICH, because the millionaires and billionaires take most of their yearly earnings in Capital Gains or Dividend income....which is BYPASSED in this new tax measure of Obama's....

so once again, although $250k is alot of money, those from $250- to $700k still could be earning most all of their individual income, in a salary affected by this...while the wealthiest of the wealthy get to bypass it, like warren buffet and gates etc....through giving up their salaries and only taking their company's and investments, capital gain at much lower tax levels.

 

[Skull Pilot]

skull?

No one said it could pay for ALL the spending?

Why someone would think that we need to get all of the money from one group of people is beyond me?

NO ONE has said such, even the articles about this states that there will be medicare cuts/reforms, and other various off shore tax loop holes closed, and the hedge fund manager's tax loop hole closed and some other stuff....

so why you are acting like all of this is going on the shoulders of the millionaires and billionaire's is beyond me?

us little guys are losing as well in this mess even with the measly tax cut we get....they've been using hundreds of billions in our own surplus SS taxes to pay for this spending...and YOU KNOW that somewhere down the road they are going to reduce drastically the benefits we were promised in SS because they used all of our surplus money now...

plus inflation will hit the working class/lower to middle... MUCH HARDER than those making more because we use most all of our salaries spending on things just to LIVE....than those with more, for the most part.

And there is NO WAY in the world that we are not going to be faced with a major uptick in inflation, with all the money our government has borrowed the past decade and the decade to come....imo.

care

All those "savings are" drops in the bucket and again are meant to distract you from the issue of all the other taxes you will be paying.

FYI there never was and never will be a dime in the SS account because there is no SS account except on paper.

The money taken from us for SS has been used for everything under the sun but what it was intended for. It is the mother of all Ponzi schemes.

The reason we will see a cut in benefits or even the abolition of benefits, while maintaining the tax, is precisely because the government has raided the SS money for decades to prop up other areas government. And what's more, government accounting rules don't have to reflect payments for medicaid and SS as debits on the government balance sheets so we'll never know just how bad shape the system is in. If your SS contribution and you employer's match of that contribution actually went into a dedicated account for your use in retirement, we wouldn't have a problem would we?

And don't think that inflation isn't part of the plan. What better way to pay off trillions in debt than with worthless dollars?

 

[sarahgop]

why not confiscate the income of senators? they have given us these huge deficits.

 

[Skull Pilot]

why not confiscate the income of senators? they have given us these huge deficits.

Why would they do that when they can just vote themselves another pay raise instead?

 

[garyd]

In most small businesses your profit is your income.

Sorry the statement that 80% of those making over 250k a year are small businesses is quite correct.And it's not the same at all as saying that most small buisnesses make more than 250k a year.

Given that a small business is defined as one having less than 500 employees, I thnk that probably includes well over ninty-five percent of buisness entities in the US

 

[Care4all]

In most small businesses your profit is your income.

Sorry the statement that 80% of those making over 250k a year are small businesses is quite correct.And it's not the same at all as saying that most small buisnesses make more than 250k a year.

Given that a small business is defined as one having less than 500 employees, I thnk that probably includes well over ninty-five percent of buisness entities in the US

A company having 500 employees, is not claiming their taxes on individual income taxes are they? Even the owner/owners of something this big is probably paying themselves a salary within the company structure....so no, they would not be included in on the income tax hike of obama's other than giving themselves a salary that might be affected by it imo.

do they take their extra profit each year of the business all for themselves and not reinvest in the company?*

care

 

[garyd]

If you've got 500 employees I'd all but guarantee you are making more than 250k a year in income. If you are doing things right. Untill now of course.

By the way if you take every dime those making over 250K earn a year at current rates you could finance the Federal government for about 2/3rds of a year. And if You do that you also have to take over state local and county government financing which will drop that by about fifty percent.

 

[Skull Pilot]

In most small businesses your profit is your income.

Sorry the statement that 80% of those making over 250k a year are small businesses is quite correct.And it's not the same at all as saying that most small buisnesses make more than 250k a year.

Given that a small business is defined as one having less than 500 employees, I thnk that probably includes well over ninty-five percent of buisness entities in the US

A company having 500 employees, is not claiming their taxes on individual income taxes are they? Even the owner/owners of something this big is probably paying themselves a salary within the company structure....so no, they would not be included in on the income tax hike of obama's other than giving themselves a salary that might be affected by it imo.

do they take their extra profit each year of the business all for themselves and not reinvest in the company?*

care

If you are asking that about S corps, it doesn't matter. Even if an S corp owner leaves the profit in the company, he still has to claim the that profit as income on his individual tax return.

 

[Care4all]

In most small businesses your profit is your income.

Sorry the statement that 80% of those making over 250k a year are small businesses is quite correct.And it's not the same at all as saying that most small buisnesses make more than 250k a year.

Given that a small business is defined as one having less than 500 employees, I thnk that probably includes well over ninty-five percent of buisness entities in the US

A company having 500 employees, is not claiming their taxes on individual income taxes are they? Even the owner/owners of something this big is probably paying themselves a salary within the company structure....so no, they would not be included in on the income tax hike of obama's other than giving themselves a salary that might be affected by it imo.

do they take their extra profit each year of the business all for themselves and not reinvest in the company?*

care

If you are asking that about S corps, it doesn't matter. Even if an S corp owner leaves the profit in the company, he still has to claim the that profit as income on his individual tax return.

if he takes his profit from the company and claims it on his individual income tax....does he also have to pay Social Security and medicare taxes on it? Or only if he pays himself within the company a salary is SS taxes paid?

how large or small, of a company, can an S-corp be, do you know?

care

 

[garyd]

Yes if you take a seperate salary outisde the profits of your S-corps you have to pay social security and medicare as wel las with hold taxes and you also have to pay the AMT if applicable.

 

[Skull Pilot]

A company having 500 employees, is not claiming their taxes on individual income taxes are they? Even the owner/owners of something this big is probably paying themselves a salary within the company structure....so no, they would not be included in on the income tax hike of obama's other than giving themselves a salary that might be affected by it imo.

do they take their extra profit each year of the business all for themselves and not reinvest in the company?*

care

If you are asking that about S corps, it doesn't matter. Even if an S corp owner leaves the profit in the company, he still has to claim the that profit as income on his individual tax return.

if he takes his profit from the company and claims it on his individual income tax....does he also have to pay Social Security and medicare taxes on it? Or only if he pays himself within the company a salary is SS taxes paid?

how large or small, of a company, can an S-corp be, do you know?

care

Most people I know who own an Scorp, myself included, draw a salary and yes pay payroll taxes, unemployment taxes, SS and state taxes etc on that income. It makes sense to do so especially if you are more than a one or two person operation.

But as an owner, you can choose to take a dividend payment above and beyond your salary that is taxed differently than income and is not subject to all those payroll taxes. Dividend payments are reported on a 1099 not a w-2.

Another option for some businesses, if it applies, is that your business can pay you rent. And rental income is taxed differently than earned income. You can also establish a separate management company to collect that rent and take care of the property and have an entirely separate income from that which allows you to double up on tax deferred retirement accounts and gives you another source of dividend income rather than income reported on a w2

So potentially, you could draw a 50K salary reported on a w2, dividends of 50K and rental income of 50K and pay less taxes than you would on 150k reported on a w2.

 

[Care4all]

Yes if you take a seperate salary outisde the profits of your S-corps you have to pay social security and medicare as wel las with hold taxes and you also have to pay the AMT if applicable.

How about, if he pays himself a salary within the company, and then also takes what profits are left over, adding to his total taxable income....he then does not have to pay SS taxes on that amount, does he?

Anyway, it doesn't matter on my SS question...they don't pay any SS taxes over 98k anyway.....

 

[auditor0007]

While many in this country were discouraged with the way our country has been run over the last 8 years. You just voted for a man who stated that many--or should I say "almost none" of the small businesse's in this country make over 250K".

Well, it turns out that while Americans are ready to form a lynch mob & hang the master minds of deceit, the Hedge Funds managers & the corrupt Wall streeters.

This new policy to hike taxes to astronomical levels- on anyone that earns over 250K. It appears that Obama forgot to mention that 80% of the over 250K people are honest hard-working small business owners. You know the "risk takers" of this country that also hire employees, make payroll, benefits, etc. In other words--"Small business owners, whom have nothing to do with Wall Street or Hedge fund managers."

So we are to tax to all time new levels these people--which represent only 5% of this nation, while expecting them to give the rest of us (95% of us) a tax break, of which 40% pay no taxes what-so-ever. Add to this--these same people, the 5% are also expected to pay for all our medical insurance premiums. This all according to Barack Obama's plan. This is what I call FUZZY MATH.

The Obama adminstration has in effect declared war on small business in this country. Still the largest employer in this country.

And to those of you who bought into this garbage & voted for it--you now OWN IT.

I do not like the idea of raising the marginal tax rate. However, I hate when people are dishonest with their arguments. Obama is not raising taxes to all time new levels. He's talking about raising the top marginal rate back to 39.6%, the same as it was under Clinton. In the 50's and 60's those marginal rates were over 90%.

One thing about it though that is a fact. Obama's highest marginal rate will kick in at a lower income level than under Clinton, especially when we factor in inflation. Under Clinton, that highest rate would only kick in on income over $350,000 (estimated based on inflation). So in that sense, Obama's tax is much more severe than Clinton's.

 

[auditor0007]

Clinton nearly wiped them out in the 1990s.

BO will finish the job Bubba started with them.

This is intellectually dishonest also. I'm not for this tax increase. But let's be honest; the wealthy became very wealthy during the 90's. The slightly higher marginal tax rate did not hurt them or the economy at all.

 

[auditor0007]

– C Corporation Versus S Corporation

Subchapter S is a tax designation as is chapter C

The basic difference is that S corps do not file a corporate tax return and the income from an S corp is reported on the shareholders individual tax return. Shareholders are also allowed to claim business losses on their individual returns.

The designation avoids a double taxation of profits from a small closely held business.

So when one argues that there are only X number of C corps that earned Y dollars in the US, one usually does so by tallying corporate tax returns which do not reflect S corps.

Yes, I understand that, I meant how is that germane to the issue that was being discussed?

Meaning they don't pay taxes on income. They pay taxes on profit.

Profit is income, lol.

 

[auditor0007]

The reason I have a problem with this $250 cut off is because in major cities, $250 is like $50k in rural, middle America....so i believe it should be started, but at a higher eschelon, like a $million.

The other reason I have a problem with this tax, is that most of the millionaire's and billionaires will still have a huge tax advantage over the WORKING RICH, because the millionaires and billionaires take most of their yearly earnings in Capital Gains or Dividend income....which is BYPASSED in this new tax measure of Obama's....

so once again, although $250k is alot of money, those from $250- to $700k still could be earning most all of their individual income, in a salary affected by this...while the wealthiest of the wealthy get to bypass it, like warren buffet and gates etc....through giving up their salaries and only taking their company's and investments, capital gain at much lower tax levels.

Lower the rates and tax it all the same.

 

[auditor0007]

skull?

No one said it could pay for ALL the spending?

Why someone would think that we need to get all of the money from one group of people is beyond me?

NO ONE has said such, even the articles about this states that there will be medicare cuts/reforms, and other various off shore tax loop holes closed, and the hedge fund manager's tax loop hole closed and some other stuff....

so why you are acting like all of this is going on the shoulders of the millionaires and billionaire's is beyond me?

us little guys are losing as well in this mess even with the measly tax cut we get....they've been using hundreds of billions in our own surplus SS taxes to pay for this spending...and YOU KNOW that somewhere down the road they are going to reduce drastically the benefits we were promised in SS because they used all of our surplus money now...

plus inflation will hit the working class/lower to middle... MUCH HARDER than those making more because we use most all of our salaries spending on things just to LIVE....than those with more, for the most part.

And there is NO WAY in the world that we are not going to be faced with a major uptick in inflation, with all the money our government has borrowed the past decade and the decade to come....imo.

care

All those "savings are" drops in the bucket and again are meant to distract you from the issue of all the other taxes you will be paying.

FYI there never was and never will be a dime in the SS account because there is no SS account except on paper.

The money taken from us for SS has been used for everything under the sun but what it was intended for. It is the mother of all Ponzi schemes.

The reason we will see a cut in benefits or even the abolition of benefits, while maintaining the tax, is precisely because the government has raided the SS money for decades to prop up other areas government. And what's more, government accounting rules don't have to reflect payments for medicaid and SS as debits on the government balance sheets so we'll never know just how bad shape the system is in. If your SS contribution and you employer's match of that contribution actually went into a dedicated account for your use in retirement, we wouldn't have a problem would we?

And don't think that inflation isn't part of the plan. What better way to pay off trillions in debt than with worthless dollars?

You are correct on this. Part of the reason we have begun to see increasing deficit spending is that the SS surplus has been decreasing every year as more benefits are being paid out, so there has been less money to raid from SS. Eventually, there won't be any extra money left from the SS surplus, and in fact, it will actually go negative. This is why serious spending cuts have to be made and the SS system revamped completely.

 

[auditor0007]

A company having 500 employees, is not claiming their taxes on individual income taxes are they? Even the owner/owners of something this big is probably paying themselves a salary within the company structure....so no, they would not be included in on the income tax hike of obama's other than giving themselves a salary that might be affected by it imo.

do they take their extra profit each year of the business all for themselves and not reinvest in the company?*

care

If you are asking that about S corps, it doesn't matter. Even if an S corp owner leaves the profit in the company, he still has to claim the that profit as income on his individual tax return.

if he takes his profit from the company and claims it on his individual income tax....does he also have to pay Social Security and medicare taxes on it? Or only if he pays himself within the company a salary is SS taxes paid?

how large or small, of a company, can an S-corp be, do you know?

care

Yes, they have to pay SS and Medicare taxes. There is no limit to size of an S-corp that I know of.

 

[Skull Pilot]

If you are asking that about S corps, it doesn't matter. Even if an S corp owner leaves the profit in the company, he still has to claim the that profit as income on his individual tax return.

if he takes his profit from the company and claims it on his individual income tax....does he also have to pay Social Security and medicare taxes on it? Or only if he pays himself within the company a salary is SS taxes paid?

how large or small, of a company, can an S-corp be, do you know?

care

Yes, they have to pay SS and Medicare taxes. There is no limit to size of an S-corp that I know of.

An S corp can have no more than 75 shareholders and there is only one class of stock unlike C corps which can have different classes of stocks