Did US interferrence in Libya and Middle East cause uprising/blood shead in Syria?

[pvsi.]

US bombed Libya once a bunch of savages started killing each other, and I think this encouraged terrorists in Syria to attempt to do the same thing. from what I've read Syria has more freedoms then the average nation especially in that area, if they would be really suppressed, no uprising would have occured - I lived in USSR, the really suppressed nation like North Korea, there was no such thing as uprising. I'm not a fan of Syrian government because it's the same guy, the son of the leader before, but I'm not a fan of savages who toppled Gadaffi by any stretch either. what do the rest of you think?

 

[waltky]

Syrian ambassadors and diplomats persona non grata...

Syrian diplomats around the world expelled
29 May12 — Governments around the world expelled Syrian ambassadors and diplomats Tuesday, an unusual, coordinated blow to Syrian President Bashar Assad's regime following a gruesome massacre that the United Nations said involved close-range shootings of scores of children and parents in their homes.

The United States, Britain, Canada, Australia, France, Germany, Italy, Spain and the Netherlands took action Tuesday against Syrian diplomats. Britain's foreign secretary said the countries involved in Tuesday's expulsions would also push for tougher sanctions against Syria. The move came after the killings Friday in Houla, a collection of farming villages in Syria's Homs province — one of the deadliest single events in a 15-month-old uprising against Assad that has killed thousands.

A U.N. report Tuesday said 49 children and 34 women were among the 108 people who died, but it did not decisively say who carried out most of the killings. "This is the most effective way we've got of sending a message of revulsion of what has happened in Syria," Australian Foreign Minister Bob Carr said in Canberra. In a statement, he called the Houla killings a "hideous and brutal crime" and said Australia would not engage with the Syrian government unless it abides by a U.N. cease-fire plan. Diplomats at the U.N., the European Union and the Arab League have been working since the Houla massacre to coordinate new action against Syria's government, French Foreign Ministry spokesman Bernard Valero said.

It was not clear whether other countries — among them Syrian allies such as Russia — would join in the expulsions. Russian President Vladimir Putin is traveling to Germany and France this week and is likely to come under even greater pressure to soften his Syria-supportive stance. "We have to continue our work with the Russians," British Foreign Secretary William Hague said. "We will continue to discuss this with Russia. Russia has particular leverage on the regime and therefore has a particular role in this crisis." Hague said that the situation in Syria is more complicated than what international powers faced in Libya last year, when the United Nations approved intervention against dictator Moammar Gadhafi's regime.

The State Department said Tuesday that the charge d'affaires at the Syrian Embassy has been given 72 hours to leave the United States. Syria has not had an ambassador in the United States since the previous envoy left last year to take another post. State Department spokeswoman Victoria Nuland said the U.S. holds "the Syrian government responsible for this slaughter of innocent lives." Britain is expelling three Syrian diplomats to protest the Houla killings, among them Charge d'Affaires Ghassan Dalla — the country's top ranking diplomat in London. In Canada, Foreign Minister John Baird said all Syrian diplomats and their families have five days to leave. Another Syrian diplomat expected in Canada will be refused entry. In France, Syria's former colonial ruler, new President Francois Hollande showed that he is not backing down from his predecessor Nicolas Sarkozy's tough line on Syria.

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Only Russia, China can stop carnage in Syria
Mon May 28, 2012 - Asher Kaufman: It's time to call turmoil in Syria a civil war, with extreme violence on each side; But regime's forces are far better equipped and organized than the opposition, he says; Kaufman: Bashar al-Assad gets heavy-duty support, especially from Russia and China; Russia and China must be convinced it's not in their interest to back al-Assad, he says

Some observers have been careful not to name the violence in Syria a civil war, lest it become a self-fulfilling prophecy. Well, the child has to be called by its name. The violent turmoil has turned into an asymmetric civil war, where the Syrian military and pro-government militias on one hand and opposition forces on the other are using extreme violence, not only against each other but also against civilians suspected of being sympathetic to one camp or the other. The civil war is asymmetric because government forces are far better equipped, organized and mobilized than the opposition. The latest expression of the unfolding brutality of this civil war is the massacre of more than 100 unarmed civilians, half of whom were children, in the Sunni village of Houla, a center of anti-government activity.

Reports are unclear as to whether the culprits were Syrian military units or pro-government militias, the Shabeeha, as they are called in Syria. The United Nations has also been careful not to point a finger at any side. But the U.N. stand is a result of Russian and Chinese support for the Syrian government, which compelled the Security Council to draft a diluted statement acceptable for all members of the council. But the kind of weapons, the systematic mode of operation and countless testimonies all point to Bashar al- Assad's regime, which is upping the ante in its war against the opposition forces and civilians suspected of being their supporters.

The civil war is asymmetric for another reason. First, although the Syrian government has been put under extreme international pressure, it still receives unconditional logistical support from Iran and Hezbollah. Its diplomatic support from Russia and China -- some reports also indicate that Russia sends arm shipments to the Syrian army -- provides assistance for al-Assad's regime to carry on with its onslaught. The opposition, on the other hand, does not have the same unconditional international backing. Although Saudi Arabia and other Gulf states have committed to support the opposition by arming its forces, their support is not yet a match to the kind of assistance provided by al-Assad's allies.

Other international supporters of the opposition, including Western countries, have been reluctant to take the support a step further and commit themselves to the kind of military operation that brought down Moammar Gadhafi in Libya, or even less so, to the establishment of a humanitarian corridor along Syria's borders. As long as al-Assad continues to receive regional and international support, his regime will be able to stay in power and have the upper hand in this civil war.

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[waltky]

Looks like if we invade Syria we'll have to fight Iran too which will bring the Russians into the mix...

Iran strengthens its backing for Assad
May 29, 2012 - An Iranian military commander's reported admission that Iranian forces are operating in Syria underlines how bad things are for Syria's divided opposition.

This and reports that Russian and North Korean arms are reaching Damascus could propel Assad's leading Arab foes, the monarchies of the Persian Gulf led by Saudi Arabia, to step up clandestine shipment of arms and ammunition to Syrian rebels. The main arms pipeline to the rebels is through northern Lebanon, a region dominated by Sunnis with close ties to their co-religionists in neighboring Syria. They're the majority in Syria and constitute the main driving force behind the revolution that will shortly enter its 15th month with Assad's opponents dangerously divided.

On Monday, Ismail Gha'ani, a top commander in the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps, the Iranian's regime's Praetorian Guard, was quoted as saying in an interview with Iran's semi-official Isna news agency that, not only were Iranian forces in Syria, they were preventing Assad's forces from slaughtering civilians. "If the Islamic Republic was not present in Syria, the massacre of people would have happened on a much larger scale," he said. "Before our presence in Syria, too many people were killed by the opposition but with the physical and non-physical presence of the Islamic Republic, big massacres in Syria were prevented."

Isna carried the interview over the weekend but abruptly withdrew the item without explanation, apparently after it was picked up by Western news outlets -- or maybe because of Friday's massacre at Houla was blamed on Assad's regime. The apparent admission by Gha'ani was given added weight because he's deputy commander of the elite al-Quds Force, the IRGC's clandestine arm which operates outside Iran. This force has long operated in Lebanon with Tehran's prized Arab surrogate, Hezbollah, and waged a covert campaign against the Americans in Iraq. The number of Revolutionary Guards deployed in Syria isn't known, although Western intelligence sources say it's considerable.

Al-Quds Force's long-elusive commander, Maj. Gen. Qassem Suleimani, is reported to have traveled secretly to Damascus in January to meet Assad and his senior commanders. Suleimani, who masterminded al-Quds Force operations in Iraq and covert activities throughout the Persian Gulf and Lebanon, is a key figure in Iranian policymaking, particularly in security matters. Syria's a vital component of Iran's expansionist ambitions into the Arab world, whether in the gulf or the Levant, where Tehran can carry its conflict with Israel right to its doorstep through Hezbollah in Lebanon. Tehran seems prepared to go to almost any lengths short of all-out war with Israel or the United States to keep Syria within its orbit.

Read more: Iran strengthens its backing for Assad - UPI.com

 

[paulitician]

Probably. Blowback can be Hell.

 

[Dick Tuck]

Why should I care? Qaddafi was a scumbag, who order the murders of innocent American civilians. Just because George Bush sucked his dick, doesn't change the established facts.

In 2001, congress gave authority to the President to go after terrorists, no matter where they were. That's what this President had the balls to do.

 

[Lovebears65]

Why should I care? Qaddafi was a scumbag, who order the murders of innocent American civilians. Just because George Bush sucked his dick, doesn't change the established facts.

In 2001, congress gave authority to the President to go after terrorists, no matter where they were. That's what this President had the balls to do.

So was Saddam but you guys went after bush with a vengeance even though Congress approved the invasion with DEM support ..

Anyway , Syria is Bush's fault too right

 

[BreezeWood]

US bombed Libya once a bunch of savages started killing each other, and I think this encouraged terrorists in Syria to attempt to do the same thing. from what I've read Syria has more freedoms then the average nation especially in that area, if they would be really suppressed, no uprising would have occured - I lived in USSR, the really suppressed nation like North Korea, there was no such thing as uprising. I'm not a fan of Syrian government because it's the same guy, the son of the leader before, but I'm not a fan of savages who toppled Gadaffi by any stretch either. what do the rest of you think?

but I'm not a fan of savages who toppled Gadaffi by any stretch either.

I'm not a fan of Syrian government because it's the same guy, the son of the leader before,

whether savages or not they (both) seem to have your same sentiment.

 

[waltky]

Uncle Ferd says it sounds like a civil war to him - the Assad regime vs. his own people...

Syria civil war threat grows after Houla massacre
31 May 2012 - What happened in Houla was terrible but not unique, says the BBC's Paul Wood, who has just returned from three weeks undercover in Syria

Is Syria edging nearer to civil war? The BBC's Paul Wood, who has spent the past three weeks reporting undercover inside Syria, says the threat is growing. "God will take revenge for us" - it's a declaration heard in the Sunni villages around Homs, from people who feel powerless, desperate, and bitter. This has not yet become a war of neighbour against neighbour, village against village; majority Sunnis against the ruling Alawite minority, their Shia and Christian allies. But there has been such terrible loss in some communities that it could become that.

The massacre in Houla was different in scale, but not in nature, from what has been happening in this part of Syria throughout this year. The pattern: the army shells a rebel-held area; then the paramilitary shabiha, "the ghosts", go in, cutting throats. When we first heard wild stories of people being "slaughtered like sheep" - several months ago now - it seemed like hysteria, later to be retold as propaganda. But there are many bodies bearing such wounds and numerous eyewitnesses to such crimes.

Back in March, I spoke to a man who described hiding in a field and watching while members of his family were killed, soldiers and shabiha holding them on the ground, a boot to the back, a knife to the throat. He watched his 12-year-old son die in agony in this way. Houla is terrible but not unique.

Battle lines

See also:

Russia contributing to potential Syria civil war - US
31 May 2012 - Hillary Clinton: "The Syrians are not going to listen to us. They will listen maybe to the Russians, so we have to keep pushing them"

The US Secretary of State says Russia's policy toward Syria will contribute to a potential civil war. Hillary Clinton's comments came after Russia and China renewed opposition to tougher UN Security Council action. UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon has repeated a warning that Syria could be moving towards "catastrophic" civil war, in the wake of the Houla massacre. Rebel commanders are split on whether to abandon a ceasefire if Syrian forces do not withdraw to barracks.

Colonel Qassim Saadeddine of the Free Syrian Army (FSA) in Homs said that if there was no government response by Friday lunchtime, the FSA would consider itself "no longer bound" by the plan. But the FSA head, General Riyad Asaad, later denied the deadline existed. Instead, he urged peace envoy Kofi Annan to issue a statement declaring his peace plan to have failed. The BBC's Paul Wood, who has just returned from three weeks inside Syria, says there is no ceasefire holding on the ground.

Syrian President Bashar al-Assad has come under intensified pressure to adhere to the ceasefire plan since the Houla massacre, in which more than 100 people - many of them children - died. On Thursday, a Syrian general gave what he said were the preliminary results of an ongoing investigation. General Qasem Jamal Suleiman said "terrorist armed groups" carried out the killing to persuade the outside world that Syria was sliding into civil war and to trigger external intervention.

'Slaughter of innocents'

 

[paulitician]

Syria is for Syrians. We have no business meddling in yet another Nation's Civil War. Period, end of story.

 

[Moonglow]

I believe I have read the "people" in civil unrest in Syria are Taliban backed.

 

[tinydancer]

Why should I care? Qaddafi was a scumbag, who order the murders of innocent American civilians. Just because George Bush sucked his dick, doesn't change the established facts.

In 2001, congress gave authority to the President to go after terrorists, no matter where they were. That's what this President had the balls to do.

The Obama administration allowed the release of the Lockerbie bomber. That was to assist BP with a major oil deal with Gaddafi.

Wow. That took balls!!

 

[rdean]

Why should I care? Qaddafi was a scumbag, who order the murders of innocent American civilians. Just because George Bush sucked his dick, doesn't change the established facts.

In 2001, congress gave authority to the President to go after terrorists, no matter where they were. That's what this President had the balls to do.

The Obama administration allowed the release of the Lockerbie bomber. That was to assist BP with a major oil deal with Gaddafi.

Wow. That took balls!!

Qaddafi is dead without the loss of a single American life.

Obama showed Republicans how it's done.

 

[Moonglow]

Why should I care? Qaddafi was a scumbag, who order the murders of innocent American civilians. Just because George Bush sucked his dick, doesn't change the established facts.

In 2001, congress gave authority to the President to go after terrorists, no matter where they were. That's what this President had the balls to do.

The Obama administration allowed the release of the Lockerbie bomber. That was to assist BP with a major oil deal with Gaddafi.

Wow. That took balls!!

Sorry, Obama did not have control of the Lockerbie bomber and could not stop his release. It was up to Scotland and they made the call, not the USA or Obama. Sunspots bothering your veiwing pleasure? Blame Obama(republiklan mental disorder dot com).

 

[waltky]

Granny says dem Russkies'll lie with dey's hand onna Bible...

Putin: Russia not 'propping up' Syrian regime
June 1st, 2012 - Russian President Vladimir Putin on Friday denied that Russia is providing weapons that are killing Syrian civilians.

"We don't supply weapons that can be used in civil conflicts," he said. A Russian-flagged ship docked this week in the Syrian port of Tartus, and some human rights groups say it was carrying weapons to be used in the conflict in Syria. The U.S. State Department said Thursday that it was looking into the matter but could not confirm that the ship was carrying arms.

Speaking with reporters in Berlin after a meeting with German Chancellor Angela Merkel, Putin also struck back at claims by U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton that Russia is "propping up the regime" of Bashar al-Assad. "Those who say that Russia is propping up any regime, in this case President Assad unilaterally, all those people are wrong. We have good and long relations with Syria, but we do not support either of the sides."

Putin said he agreed with Merkel that everything must be done to avoid a civil war in Syria. "Today, we see developing elements of civil war, and it's very dangerous," he added. On Friday, Clinton said in Oslo, Noway, that if Russia is ready to work with other world powers "to come together to plan a political transition, we will certainly be ready to cooperate." But she hammered home her claim that Russia is helping Syria. There's been a "very consistent arms trade" over the last year of violence from Russia to Syria, she said.

"We also believe that the continuing supply of arms from Russia has strengthened the Assad regime. What those arms are being used for, we cannot speak with any accuracy, but the fact that Russia has continued to sustain this trade in the face of efforts by the international community to impose sanctions and to prevent further arms flowing to the Assad regime, and in particular the Syrian military has raised serious concerns on our part," Clinton said. This reflects the Obama administration's efforts to get Russia to use its pull with the regime.

MORE

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Panetta: No unilateral U.S. military action likely in Syria
June 1st, 2012 - As images of grisly massacres continue to flow from Syrian opposition groups, U.S. Defense Secretary Leon Panetta said the United States should not move forward with unilateral military action without the authorization of the United Nations.

"No, I cannot envision that," Panetta said when asked if the United States would bypass the world body to take action in Syria to remove President Bashar al-Assad. But he left the door open by saying, "I think it is important for the U.S. to protect every possible option for taking action in the future." His comments were made Thursday aboard a U.S. Air Force plane taking him to a conference in Asia. At the conference, he is expected to promote the new U.S. military strategy that puts the Defense Department's main focus on Asia, instead of the Middle East and Southwest Asia, where the country has been fighting for over 10 years.

"There is no question that we are very concerned about the atrocities that are taking place in Syria," Panetta said. "... This is an intolerable situation. We cannot be satisfied with what's going on and the international community has got to take further steps to make sure that Assad steps down." For the United States, he said, additional steps means "to continue to put pressure on Russia to do what it can to achieve that goal. It means continuing to explore every other possible option here to try to continue the effort to get Assad to step down."

Panetta echoed earlier comments he and others in the Obama administration have made that the international community must work together to pressure the Syrian leadership to step down. "I think it's very important right now that we work with the international community because we share the same goals and concerns here," he said. "My hope would be the international community becomes much more aggressive at deciding what additional steps are necessary here."

Asked if other countries in the region could be dragged into the Syrian conflict if the fighting drags on, starting a sectarian proxy war, Panetta said he has some concerns. "There are countries like Iran and others (that) are already involved that are trying to assist Assad and there are other groups, both good and bad, that are engaged," he said. "The longer this goes on, the greater the threat the situation is going to get worse in terms of what happens ultimately when Assad steps down. I think the key right now is to have an effective transition and doing it in a way that continues to provide stability for Syria."

Source

 

[American Horse]

All of what is going on now, viz Libya, Egypt, Tunisia, Syria results from the invasion of Iraq. Carefully managed by us the results could be in our favor, meaning deposing of dictators (Mullas) and people taking their destinies in their own hands.

A few years back the student uprisings in Iran couild've resulted in the overthrow of the Mullas there, had we done everything we could to help, and none of that would've needed to be military aid or interference; all just the same economic measures we will have to take to stop their nuclear activity. They pleaded for help, or simply recognition, from Obama, and Obama was silent, not even offering a word of support.

Syria is just a proxie state for Iran, and Iran is just as important to Russia to maintain a bottleneck on Oil from the Caspian Sea. If Iran were to become a democratic state (or had it) then the Russians would lose their control over that bottleneck. Oil is the primary source of income for the Russian state, and vital to it's economy.

 

[francoHFW]

Getting rid of Saddam- 2 trillion dollars, 4k dead, 160k wounded, got Iran dominated mess and 1 million Alqaeda....Gaddafi- o dead, o wounded, 1 billion dollars. And Gaddafi WAS a terrorist, not Reagan's ally. Pubs are incompetent chickenhawk fools. Pub dupes!!

 

[bripat9643]

US bombed Libya once a bunch of savages started killing each other, and I think this encouraged terrorists in Syria to attempt to do the same thing. from what I've read Syria has more freedoms then the average nation especially in that area, if they would be really suppressed, no uprising would have occured - I lived in USSR, the really suppressed nation like North Korea, there was no such thing as uprising. I'm not a fan of Syrian government because it's the same guy, the son of the leader before, but I'm not a fan of savages who toppled Gadaffi by any stretch either. what do the rest of you think?

I think Muslims are all a pack of ignorant savages. They need a strong dictator to keep their thirst for blood under control. Freedom is for civilized people, not animals.

 

[rdean]

It started in Iraq but it was going to happen anyway.
What the US did was make sure Islamic fundamentalists took over. You can thank Bush and the Republicans inept polices and incompetent management for that. Since it's all they know, it's to be expected. What have they been successful at for the last 20 years. They can't even name a single thing besides tricking Americans into voting for them.

 

[bripat9643]

Nice poster of a German PZKW III from WW II

Why should I care? Qaddafi was a scumbag, who order the murders of innocent American civilians. Just because George Bush sucked his dick, doesn't change the established facts.

In 2001, congress gave authority to the President to go after terrorists, no matter where they were. That's what this President had the balls to do.

The Obama administration allowed the release of the Lockerbie bomber. That was to assist BP with a major oil deal with Gaddafi.

Wow. That took balls!!

 

[bripat9643]

Getting rid of Saddam- 2 trillion dollars, 4k dead, 160k wounded, got Iran dominated mess and 1 million Alqaeda....Gaddafi- o dead, o wounded, 1 billion dollars. And Gaddafi WAS a terrorist, not Reagan's ally. Pubs are incompetent chickenhawk fools. Pub dupes!!

So you aren't against pre-emptive war against sovereign nations so long as it doesn't cost too much?


BTW, fucktard, there weren't 160K wounded Americans, and the Iraq war cost less than $1 trillion. You're also ignoring all the dead and wounded Libyans. The cost of the Libya campaign was also far higher than $1 billion. Only a truly gullible left-wing turd would believe a number like that.