Did the Mob Kill JFK?

[geauxtohell]

Nope. I think people want to believe it was something with more moving parts than it really was.

I have to agree with Polk.

It's an understandable emotion. I mean, it's kinda scary to think that one lone nut can cause that much damage.

"You must spread some reputation around before giving it to Polk again."

 

[Ryan]

The goal of Discovery Channel's Nov. 16th special, "JFK: Inside the Target Car," was to explore the theories and determine where the shots most likely came from using modern forensic science.

A mock-up of the Dallas, Texas crime scene was set up, including the depository, the "grassy knoll," and other nearby landmarks. Artificial surrogates of Kennedy were placed in a car. Sharpshooters then shot the surrogates from the model depository, the grassy knoll, and four other plausible locations.

Schliebe, along with Tom Bevel, an independent expert forensic investigator, were brought in to examine the simulated crime scene. Both scientists had no idea what the experiment was for or that it was a reenactment of the JFK assassination.

The two experts found a simulated gunshot would to the head that closely matched the wound Kennedy suffered. Most of the simulated body material had spattered forward into the car, consistent with a shot that entered the back of the head and exited toward the front. There was some back-spatter — material that flew back in the opposite direction of the bullet's trajectory — but not much.

The general lack of back spatter and the preponderance of spatter in another direction are two of the clues, among others, that the investigators used to pinpoint the origin of the shots.

Tech puts JFK conspiracy theories to rest - Discovery.com- msnbc.com

I watched this film and I provided the title earlier in the thread. Did you watch the film?

The film only provided some excellent information on terminal ballistics. What this film did not do is provide is internal and external ballistic information or reproduce the shots attributed to Oswald. Remember, the limo was stationary and there were no time frames.
The film did not prove or disprove whether the shots came from the from the 6th story window. The film did prove that a shot from the grassy noll using a caliber of 6.5 x 52mm would have over penetrated the target JFK causing more extensive damage to left skull and perhaps cause injuries to Jackie.

The only point established by this film was in regard to terminal ballistics and how a simulated human skull would be damaged. The terminal ballistics were consistant with a elevated rear shot but not specific to LHO. I would have liked for some tests on bullets with drilled projctiles to be tested from the "grassy noll" angle but I guess those fake skulls are expensive.

 

[Ryan]

Anyone who is truly interested in understanding the JFK assassination should pay particular attention the shooting factors involved. The Mannlicher-Carcano (c-2566) rifle with scope was purchased for $19.95 and shipped to PO Box addressed A. Hidell.

When the rifle was found on the 6th floor of TSBD it is possible that the scope that supposedly used a the JFK assassination might have been knocked out of alignment when the rifle was hidden between stacks of boxes or even the Dallas PD might have dropped the important evidence a few times. Even though this is unlikely, the rifle and scope could be aligned again without much effort. When the WC conducted the rifle tests they soon found that the weapon and scope were way off target.

When someone gets a new rifle and scope they have align the two systems. With center fire ammunition this alignment is usually at 100 yards. The WC could not align the two systems and thus a machinist was required to construct two shims. The shim requirement proves that the rifle was never sighted in, it was not possible. Even after the shims were in place the weapon was firing high and to the right. The elevation and wind-age knobs on this cheap scope reached the limit of adjustments before proper alignment could be reached. The impact still needed to come down and to the left.

Another great difficulty in this string of fire was the relatively quick time frame that the WC established based on Zapruder's camera and the frames per second. There was a interval between the shot that struck JFK's neck and then his head of 4.8 to 5.6 seconds. The minimum time to dry fire (no ammunition in the gun) is 2.3 seconds. That 2.3 seconds is required to operate the bolt system. With ammunition a lone gun man would be required to absorb the recoil, work the bolt and reacquire the target apply proper marksmanship principles of a lead and breathing techniques and squeeze trigger. Precise shooting does require time.

The scope on the rifle was a 4x (magnified target 4 times) with a tiny objective lense. My guess is that the scope lense was at the most 20mm whereas today most sniper scopes are at least 40mm and many up to 60mm to have a greater field of view and more light. Anyway after a recoil it would be hard to reacquire a target especially if it is moving with that tiny objective lense.

The first shot missing and the 2nd and third hitting the target are the most realistic to the lone gunman theory and yet the time frame is near impossible. Of the Master rated riflemen only one was able to barely able to meet the time frames firing at stationary targets at a lower 30 foot elevation. The WC declined to record these expert marksmen's opinions of the rifle and it's capabilities.

Why does anyone believe that Oswald, a poor shot, did what no one else has been able to match?

 

[JW Frogen]

I says a bullet killed that Paddy President.

That izz all you will ever know, all you ever need to know.

Unless youes want to sleep with the fishes.

Like Tory McClure, the Man from Atlantis or Jock Cousteau.

 

[Ryan]

Marrion Baker was Dallas Police motorcycle officer assigned on the rear flank the JFK motorcade. Baker had straggled a considerable distance behind as the limo proceeded on Elm Street. Baker observed a swarm of pigeons flying off the roof of the TSBD and as the first shot rand out Bakes gunned his motorcycle to the north end of Elm street.

With revolver in hand he ran up the steps of the TSBD where he was met by depository manager Roy Truly. Truly directed Baker away from the elevators in the north-east corner of the building to the south-west corner of the building where the elevators went to the top floor. At the south-west elevator bank the two men found the elevators were on the both on the upper floor.

The two men proceeded climbing the the stairs where Truly realized that Officer Baker was no longer following him. On the 2nd floor Baker spotted LHO in the building cafeteria standing by a soda machine. Baker called LHO to "come here," where LHO approached slowly. Truly verified to Baker that LHO was an in the employee at which time the two proceeded again to climb the stairs of the TSBD.

Moments after Elizabeth Reed spotted LHO drinking a Cock as he walked across the 2nd floor. She informed him the JFK had been shot and LHO mumbled something as he left the building. Baker original statement to the FBI on 11/23 where he had Oswald "drinking a Coke" was scratched out, the WC did not investigate.

The time for Baker to travel from the curb to the 2nd floor area where LHO was encountered took between 75 and 90 seconds. LHO could not have used the elevators to get to the 2nd floor and appeared calm, not breathing hard. The WC determined that it would have taken at least 1 minute 14 seconds, 74 seconds for someone to walk from the NE corner of 6th floor to the 2nd floor lunchroom. The time frames skirt the bounds of impossibility.

 

[Ryan]

I says a bullet killed that Paddy President.

That izz all you will ever know, all you ever need to know.

Unless youes want to sleep with the fishes.

Like Tory McClure, the Man from Atlantis or Jock Cousteau.

"you got the right ta-ta, but the wrong ho-ho."

 

[rightwinger]

Moments after Elizabeth Reed spotted LHO drinking a Cock as he walked across the 2nd floor.

There you have it........Homo's killed JFK

 

[Ryan]

Moments after Elizabeth Reed spotted LHO drinking a Cock as he walked across the 2nd floor.

There you have it........Homo's killed JFK

lolololololololololololol

Basically that's what happened.

Withal all that text you caught that?

 

[rightwinger]

There you have it........Homo's killed JFK

lolololololololololololol

Basically that's what happened.

Withal all that text you caught that?

It kindof jumped out of there

 

[Ryan]

There you have it........Homo's killed JFK

lolololololololololololol

Basically that's what happened.

Withal all that text you caught that?

It kindof jumped out of there

It thought your Garrison/Posner tie in was good punch line. I might switch to Pepsi after this thread.

Let me place my cards on the table. It is hard for me really to imagine what happened at the TSBD. A "conspiracy theory" would be very involved and I could start listing some reasons that make it hard to believe. At the same time, for some of the reasons I mentioned, I find the LHO as the "lone gunman" the hardest theory of all to believe.

There was so much in Posner's book that I thought was a fraud that I doubted everyting he said. I have not read Bugliosi, from what I have heard it's similiar to Posner's book. If it could be proven that string of fire by one person was possible, my main reason but far from the only reason for doubt, I will try to keep be a reasonable voice of doubt.