Did TARP save America???

[loosecannon]

What do you think would have happened if the big banks had failed? Think it wouldn't have impacted every single one of us far more than the current situation has? Because it would have been horrific, Care.

how do you know that? I mean, you don't, can't know that. It's like what would have happened if Japan didn't attack Pearl harbor. Any answer will be pure speculation.

Of course we can know. We can use the lessons of history - and look at what happened around the world back over centuries of financial failures. And when you look at what happens when one bank, with no international reach, collapses.... and then factor in the links from bank to bank, from bank to business, from bank to ordinary people..... you can see what would have happened. It would have been far, far, far worse than it is. Ask any economist - anywhere in the world.

that is all conjecture, and the status of our financial system in 2007 really is remarkably different from any other example in history.

You simply have no real idea, just a guess.

 

[loosecannon]

Exactly. The market is not always right or rational, and sometimes government must step in and fix things. That's a nice step forward.

But didn't the government facilitate the whole mess in the first place by relaxing regulation to zero and rescinding important barriers to the banking industry?

Deregulation is certainly one of the prime reasons that enabled the banks to totally fuck things up, and wound up looking totally idiotic in retrospect. But isn't deregulation and act of taking government out of the equation?

I just find it funny when you credit with fixing something the government caused in the first place.

 

[kwc57]

All it did was prolong the inevitable and add insurmountable debt. It was a catastrophic fuck up, and will be remembered as such.

How did it add insurmountable debt when most of those bailed out are repaying the taxpayer back, well ahead of schedule?

You are aware that the gubmint didn't have money stashed in a mattress or buried in the backyard to fund TARP don't you? Just like the stimulus, it is borrowed money that eventually has to be paid back to places like China. Tell me, if you make $30k a year and have $75k in credit card debt, do you pay that credit card debt off by borrowing the money? Eventually the bill comes due and the loan shark sends around his enforcer to collect. Not getting our spending under control and continuing to borrow from our political enemy (China) could lead to them controling our country without firing a single shot.

 

[Dick Tuck]

All it did was prolong the inevitable and add insurmountable debt. It was a catastrophic fuck up, and will be remembered as such.

How did it add insurmountable debt when most of those bailed out are repaying the taxpayer back, well ahead of schedule?

Funny, Bush's administration claimed that Iraq would cost $60 billion and it wound up costing over a trillion. Now the right claims that TARP was a disaster costing close to a trillion, and winds up either turning a profit or being $50 billion at worst. It's a good thing that Obama converted those preferred shares to common voting shares. He saved the taxpayers a lot of money.

TARP wasn't limited to the $787 billion appropriated, it also included privileged access to cheap loans that may in fact continue to this day. Trillions in cheap loans. That those banks refuse to lend. They just hoard it and invest it to bolster their bottom line and keep the bonuses flowing.

You must be proud!

? Those loans are Fed loans, and I don't like the fact that they have no strings attached. The fact that banks are turning around and reinvesting those zero interest loans into 1.5% t-notes, does piss me off. But it's not like there's a huge demand for commercial credit at this point and it does improve solvency and liquidity, which is important. I doubt that banks will stick with the chump change t-bills once the commercial demand for credit improves.

Pride has nothing to do with it. The fact that we didn't go into a full scale meltdown, is something that pleases me.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

anyone with a college education will see it as a resounding success for Bush and Obama.

Obviously the GED's haven't the tools to deal with it.

Ya see there bucko.... the above is why I shit on you every chance I get. It's your Holier-than-thou, condescending-ass attitude. Your need to feel that you are better than everybody else, when in fact, you are one of the biggest simps on USMB. MBA my hairy white ass.

You sir.. are a fucking tool.

 

[Dick Tuck]

All it did was prolong the inevitable and add insurmountable debt. It was a catastrophic fuck up, and will be remembered as such.

How did it add insurmountable debt when most of those bailed out are repaying the taxpayer back, well ahead of schedule?

You are aware that the gubmint didn't have money stashed in a mattress or buried in the backyard to fund TARP don't you? Just like the stimulus, it is borrowed money that eventually has to be paid back to places like China. Tell me, if you make $30k a year and have $75k in credit card debt, do you pay that credit card debt off by borrowing the money? Eventually the bill comes due and the loan shark sends around his enforcer to collect. Not getting our spending under control and continuing to borrow from our political enemy (China) could lead to them controling our country without firing a single shot.

It doesn't really matter, since those bailouts are being paid back, with a premium, well ahead of schedule.

 

[Zander]

The TARP program did what it was supposed to do. The problem is Obama added the bloated STIMULUS program on top of it and shoved the wildly unpopular ObamaCare down our throats. Democrats will be severely punished.

 

[Dick Tuck]

anyone with a college education will see it as a resounding success for Bush and Obama.

Obviously the GED's haven't the tools to deal with it.

Ya see there bucko.... the above is why I shit on you every chance I get. It's your Holier-than-thou, condescending-ass attitude. Your need to feel that you are better than everybody else, when in fact, you are one of the biggest simps on USMB. MBA my hairy white ass.

You sir.. are a fucking tool.

Speaking for me, and not topspin.

How can one not have a holier-than-thou, condescending-ass attitude, when people are jumping in with total bullshit facts and expressing opinions based on zero knowledge? If anyone doesn't by now know that TARP is being repaid, with a premium, well ahead of schedule, and that the overall cost now looks to be something between making money and $50 billion, they shouldn't post bullshit like "it costs a trillion dollars".

I personally try to be patient with ignorance, but sometimes the level of stupidity is just too much to handle. I don't force people who don't know their ass from a hole in the ground to post idiocy.

 

[007]

How did it add insurmountable debt when most of those bailed out are repaying the taxpayer back, well ahead of schedule?

You are aware that the gubmint didn't have money stashed in a mattress or buried in the backyard to fund TARP don't you? Just like the stimulus, it is borrowed money that eventually has to be paid back to places like China. Tell me, if you make $30k a year and have $75k in credit card debt, do you pay that credit card debt off by borrowing the money? Eventually the bill comes due and the loan shark sends around his enforcer to collect. Not getting our spending under control and continuing to borrow from our political enemy (China) could lead to them controling our country without firing a single shot.

It doesn't really matter, since those bailouts are being paid back, with a premium, well ahead of schedule.

Instead of just bloviating, why don't you provide a link to just how much money is GONE and how much is REPAID.

 

[kwc57]

How did it add insurmountable debt when most of those bailed out are repaying the taxpayer back, well ahead of schedule?

You are aware that the gubmint didn't have money stashed in a mattress or buried in the backyard to fund TARP don't you? Just like the stimulus, it is borrowed money that eventually has to be paid back to places like China. Tell me, if you make $30k a year and have $75k in credit card debt, do you pay that credit card debt off by borrowing the money? Eventually the bill comes due and the loan shark sends around his enforcer to collect. Not getting our spending under control and continuing to borrow from our political enemy (China) could lead to them controling our country without firing a single shot.

It doesn't really matter, since those bailouts are being paid back, with a premium, well ahead of schedule.

If you work under the assumption that the payments being made are being used to pay back the kind folks who lent us the money. $5 says it isn't. The gubmint don't work that way.

 

[Dick Tuck]

The TARP program did what it was supposed to do. The problem is Obama added the bloated STIMULUS program on top of it and shoved the wildly unpopular ObamaCare down our throats. Democrats will be severely punished.

I love this level of cognitive dissonance. On one hand it's bloated, and on the other hand it didn't do enough to keep unemployment below 8%. It can't be both. Was the tax cut to the middle and lower income brackets bloat? Was the money spent to help people refinance their predatory loans into fixed 30 year mortgages bloat? Would not doing that, and allowing the foreclosure rates to continue to rise be preferable? I've just read a story about how banks are getting a second hit by paying the additional overhead associated from foreclosure.

 

[topspin]

anyone with a college education will see it as a resounding success for Bush and Obama.

Obviously the GED's haven't the tools to deal with it.

Ya see there bucko.... the above is why I shit on you every chance I get. It's your Holier-than-thou, condescending-ass attitude. Your need to feel that you are better than everybody else, when in fact, you are one of the biggest simps on USMB. MBA my hairy white ass.

You sir.. are a fucking tool.

Not better, but way more educated in finance than you and most on this board. Now if you could ever discuss issues without throughing your desires for man ass at the same time.

 

[Dr.Traveler]

how do you know that? I mean, you don't, can't know that. It's like what would have happened if Japan didn't attack Pearl harbor. Any answer will be pure speculation.

Of course we can know. We can use the lessons of history - and look at what happened around the world back over centuries of financial failures. And when you look at what happens when one bank, with no international reach, collapses.... and then factor in the links from bank to bank, from bank to business, from bank to ordinary people..... you can see what would have happened. It would have been far, far, far worse than it is. Ask any economist - anywhere in the world.

that is all conjecture, and the status of our financial system in 2007 really is remarkably different from any other example in history.

You simply have no real idea, just a guess.

It's a guess well based in reality. Maybe at the last minute it would have all worked out...

But smart money would be that without the bail out from TARP, the banks would have failed. First the small ones, then a large bank like Citi, then the whole ball of wax. Once that happened the FDIC is on the hook for an enormous amount of money and business credit lines just evaporate.

Once that had happened you'd have seen a total collapse.

The banking system is vital to the economic engine. Tarp saved that.

 

[rightwinger]

Of course we can know. We can use the lessons of history - and look at what happened around the world back over centuries of financial failures. And when you look at what happens when one bank, with no international reach, collapses.... and then factor in the links from bank to bank, from bank to business, from bank to ordinary people..... you can see what would have happened. It would have been far, far, far worse than it is. Ask any economist - anywhere in the world.

that is all conjecture, and the status of our financial system in 2007 really is remarkably different from any other example in history.

You simply have no real idea, just a guess.

It's a guess well based in reality. Maybe at the last minute it would have all worked out...

But smart money would be that without the bail out from TARP, the banks would have failed. First the small ones, then a large bank like Citi, then the whole ball of wax. Once that happened the FDIC is on the hook for an enormous amount of money and business credit lines just evaporate.

Once that had happened you'd have seen a total collapse.

The banking system is vital to the economic engine. Tarp saved that.

Like a line of dominos, once the major banks collapsed they would have brought the entire financial sector and our economy down with it. Same goes for the auto indistry

By passing TARP, Bush and Obama prevented a financial collapse on the global market. If you think 9.5% unemployment is bad....we would have seen 25%

 

[Sallow]

IMO, it saved us from a world wide depression.

One thing Bush got right...

When historians write the history of this era, the Bush generated TARP bailouts may be the one thing that saves him from being considered the worst President in history.

Well that..and aid to Africa..and the whole declaration of protected seas near hawaii. Also, as far as we know, he didn't show up to the job ranting about Jews and drunk like Grant did..

 

[California Girl]

how do you know that? I mean, you don't, can't know that. It's like what would have happened if Japan didn't attack Pearl harbor. Any answer will be pure speculation.

Of course we can know. We can use the lessons of history - and look at what happened around the world back over centuries of financial failures. And when you look at what happens when one bank, with no international reach, collapses.... and then factor in the links from bank to bank, from bank to business, from bank to ordinary people..... you can see what would have happened. It would have been far, far, far worse than it is. Ask any economist - anywhere in the world.

that is all conjecture, and the status of our financial system in 2007 really is remarkably different from any other example in history.

You simply have no real idea, just a guess.

We can learn from history. That's why we study history - those who do not are doomed to repeat past mistakes. I work with some incredibly smart economists, independent - with no political agenda. It is unusual for academics to agree but every single one that I've talked to about the global meltdown has said the same thing. If we had not bailed out the banks, then not just the majority of Americans, but the majority of ordinary citizens across the western world, would be on the brink of ruin.... and many of us would be ruined. And, after we'd collapsed, the poor countries would have collapsed behind us. You think things are bad now.... You should be thanking the US Government for TARP. It saved most of us from far, far worse. Personally, I think the medicine may be distasteful, but it is better than the disease.

 

[Sallow]

Of course we can know. We can use the lessons of history - and look at what happened around the world back over centuries of financial failures. And when you look at what happens when one bank, with no international reach, collapses.... and then factor in the links from bank to bank, from bank to business, from bank to ordinary people..... you can see what would have happened. It would have been far, far, far worse than it is. Ask any economist - anywhere in the world.

that is all conjecture, and the status of our financial system in 2007 really is remarkably different from any other example in history.

You simply have no real idea, just a guess.

It's a guess well based in reality. Maybe at the last minute it would have all worked out...

But smart money would be that without the bail out from TARP, the banks would have failed. First the small ones, then a large bank like Citi, then the whole ball of wax. Once that happened the FDIC is on the hook for an enormous amount of money and business credit lines just evaporate.

Once that had happened you'd have seen a total collapse.

The banking system is vital to the economic engine. Tarp saved that.

Spot on.

 

[Zander]

The TARP program did what it was supposed to do. The problem is Obama added the bloated STIMULUS program on top of it and shoved the wildly unpopular ObamaCare down our throats. Democrats will be severely punished.

I love this level of cognitive dissonance. On one hand it's bloated, and on the other hand it didn't do enough to keep unemployment below 8%. It can't be both. Was the tax cut to the middle and lower income brackets bloat? Was the money spent to help people refinance their predatory loans into fixed 30 year mortgages bloat? Would not doing that, and allowing the foreclosure rates to continue to rise be preferable? I've just read a story about how banks are getting a second hit by paying the additional overhead associated from foreclosure.

You must be confused.

TARP was originally passed about two years ago with Bi-partisan support as a $700 Billion program - of which only about $387 billion was actually invested. It is a completely different program than the Obama Stimulus. It was a successful program.

The Stimulus ( The American Recovery and Reinvestment Act) was an $800 Billion slush fund that passed the House without one Republican vote and with only 3 RINO votes in the Senate (Collins, Snow and Specter) long after we had already stabilized the system. It was unnecessary and wasteful spending -- and that is what is pissing people off.

$6.1 trillion, that's how much money the federal government has spent in just the first 18 months of the Obama presidency. Washington is spending $7 million every minute of every hour of every day.

There's only one way to feed that kind of destructive spending - more of your tax dollars. And that's exactly what Democrats on Capitol Hill and in the White House are talking about. That is why we are going to bounce them on their asses in 28 days.

 

[loosecannon]

Of course we can know. We can use the lessons of history - and look at what happened around the world back over centuries of financial failures. And when you look at what happens when one bank, with no international reach, collapses.... and then factor in the links from bank to bank, from bank to business, from bank to ordinary people..... you can see what would have happened. It would have been far, far, far worse than it is. Ask any economist - anywhere in the world.

that is all conjecture, and the status of our financial system in 2007 really is remarkably different from any other example in history.

You simply have no real idea, just a guess.

We can learn from history. That's why we study history - those who do not are doomed to repeat past mistakes. I work with some incredibly smart economists, independent - with no political agenda. It is unusual for academics to agree but every single one that I've talked to about the global meltdown has said the same thing. If we had not bailed out the banks, then not just the majority of Americans, but the majority of ordinary citizens across the western world, would be on the brink of ruin.... and many of us would be ruined. And, after we'd collapsed, the poor countries would have collapsed behind us. You think things are bad now.... You should be thanking the US Government for TARP. It saved most of us from far, far worse. Personally, I think the medicine may be distasteful, but it is better than the disease.

the banks just love to see you carrying their water.

The fact is, we simply can not know. Today's example is not comparable to anything else in history.

In fact it was a misdiagnoses of the Great Depression that resulted in our failed stimulus today.

 

[Avorysuds]

It was bad for America... Someone would have come in behind and bought up the banks. I believe it might have been possible to avoid the entire housing bubble bust if there were no bail outs.

The problem is every time something like this happens Government comes in and gives rich money and liberal that hate rich people cheer.

Here is a question, what WOULD have happened if banks failed? Go ahead, tell us and try not to leave it at one word "depression" mainly because we might hit one anyways. What would have happened to someone with 1 mil in debt to a bank that just folded?