Did Pakistan soldiers shoot at US helicopters?

[CrimsonWhite]

Unbelievable.

ISLAMABAD, Pakistan - U.S. helicopters flew into Pakistan's militant-infested border region, but returned to Afghanistan after troops and tribesmen opened fire, intelligence officials said Monday. Washington denied the account.

The alleged incident late Sunday threatened new rifts between the United States and its key ally against terrorism days after a truck bomb struck a luxury hotel in Islamabad, killing 53 people.

Late Monday, Dubai-based TV channel Al-Arabiya said it had received a tape from a shadowy group calling itself "Fedayeen Al-Islam" — Arabic for "Islam commandos" — claiming responsibility for the bombing and urging Pakistan to end cooperation with Washington.

In the northwestern city of Peshawar, gunmen kidnapped Afghanistan's ambassador-designate Monday and killed his driver.

Did Pakistan soldiers shoot at US helicopters? - Yahoo! News

 

[Chris]

Yes, they did.

 

[Gunny]

Yes, they did.

Wow. Thanks for that, Walter Cronkite. You were there, huh?

 

[I Missthe North]

If they did I would not be surprised, or blame them for that matter. They have repeatedly asked us to stop our incursions into their country, yet we continue to do it anyways. Think about it. If Canada was bombing the Rocky Mtns. in the US cause there were anti-Canadian rebels there, we would not be happy with it either. I understand that we want to continue fighting terrorism, but we still have to respect the borders of other sovereign nations. As much as we like to believe we are; we are not above the law. We need to find a diplomatic solution to this problem instead of continuing to violate their borders illegally.

 

[Chris]

Pakistan warned us a week ago, that they would fire on our soldiers if they entered Pakistan.

 

[crazyassted]

If Canada was bombing the Rocky Mtns. in the US cause there were anti-Canadian rebels there, we would not be happy with it either.

Speak for yourself. I would support bombing raids in the Rocky Mts by Canada if there were anti-Canadian rebels there.

 

[CrimsonWhite]

Speak for yourself. I would support bombing raids in the Rocky Mts by Canada if there were anti-Canadian rebels there.

Yep, allies are allies. If Pakistan cannot control the region then fuck em. Lets go in and control it for them. The region presents a clear and present danger.

 

[I Missthe North]

Speak for yourself. I would support bombing raids in the Rocky Mts by Canada if there were anti-Canadian rebels there.

After we asked them cease and desist numerous times? I doubt it, and that is exactly what happened in Pakistan.

 

[CrimsonWhite]

After we asked them cease and desist numerous times? I doubt it, and that is exactly what happened in Pakistan.

Then we go to war with Pakistan for harboring terrorists. Nukes or no.

 

[I Missthe North]

Yep, allies are allies. If Pakistan cannot control the region then fuck em. Lets go in and control it for them. The region presents a clear and present danger.

And that is the problem with American foreign policy right there; that attitude. Just because we have the largest military in the world does not give us the right to ignore international laws. The region may or may not pose an imminent threat to the US (I am not convinced that it does), but there are better way of dealing with this situation then just ignoring Pakistani requests to stop our incursions. If the Bush Administration really wanted to, I am sure they could work out something with Pakistan to deal with the issue. That would involve some effort on the part of the Bush Administration, and why actually try to do something the right way when you can just take shortcuts? The story of the last eight years.

 

[Gunny]

After we asked them cease and desist numerous times? I doubt it, and that is exactly what happened in Pakistan.

Bullshit. They've been grandstanding us since the Taliban first ran into Pakistan with their tails between their kicked asses.

 

[Gunny]

And that is the problem with American foreign policy right there; that attitude. Just because we have the largest military in the world does not give us the right to ignore international laws. The region may or may not pose an imminent threat to the US (I am not convinced that it does), but there are better way of dealing with this situation then just ignoring Pakistani requests to stop our incursions. If the Bush Administration really wanted to, I am sure they could work out something with Pakistan to deal with the issue. That would involve some effort on the part of the Bush Administration, and why actually try to do something the right way when you can just take shortcuts? The story of the last eight years.

Relativist arguments do not give us the right to ignore a clear and present danger to everyone it comes in contact with either.

Pakistan has stonewalled us from Day One. The only options left are to maintain an indefinite war since we cannot strike at our enemies where they live, or seek, locate and destroy the enemy wherever it is.

That isn't dangerous thinking. It's called sound strategy and tactics.

 

[I Missthe North]

Bullshit. They've been grandstanding us since the Taliban first ran into Pakistan with their tails between their kicked asses.

You are right and I am not trying to argue otherwise. All I am saying is that the US needs to respect the rights of other countries and attempt to find a diplomatic solution to the problem instead of just ignoring rules and regulations like we have done in the past. We don't make any friends that way, and we are in painfully short supply of those these days. You may not care, but some day in the future when we need them it would be nice if not everyone hated us just because we couldn't respect the borders of other countries. Seems like a stupid reason to me to make enemies.

 

[CrimsonWhite]

And that is the problem with American foreign policy right there; that attitude. Just because we have the largest military in the world does not give us the right to ignore international laws. The region may or may not pose an imminent threat to the US (I am not convinced that it does), but there are better way of dealing with this situation then just ignoring Pakistani requests to stop our incursions. If the Bush Administration really wanted to, I am sure they could work out something with Pakistan to deal with the issue. That would involve some effort on the part of the Bush Administration, and why actually try to do something the right way when you can just take shortcuts? The story of the last eight years.

I never said imminent threat, I said clear and present danger. There is a difference and both are legitimate reasons fro action. Intelligence has been saying for years the the mastermind of 9/11 is in this region. You don't consider that reason enough to go in? "Justice for all." perhaps?

 

[I Missthe North]

I never said imminent threat, I said clear and present danger. There is a difference and both are legitimate reasons fro action. Intelligence has been saying for years the the mastermind of 9/11 is in this region. You don't consider that reason enough to go in? "Justice for all." perhaps?

Is this the same intelligence that said there were WMD's in Iraq and Saddam was connected to Al Quaeda? Sorry, not all that impressed. I am under the firm belief that the terrorists we need to worry about have long since moved on from Pakistan and into an area that is not under constant bombardment and military pressure. If anything, we are just creating a breeding ground in Pakistan for more extremists by continuing to show a complete disregard for Islam and its people.

 

[Jeepers]

Pakistani politics are much more difficult than many of you are grasping... If a leader lives to see another day then the day prior was a good one.. each time we cross the border we are pissing off those people that would pull the trigger. The leader must keep up a good appearance.. we need to help him with that... we need to be a bit more stealthy in our activities...

 

[crazyassted]

After we asked them cease and desist numerous times? I doubt it, and that is exactly what happened in Pakistan.

I wouldn't ask them to cease and desist, so your point is stupid.

 

[I Missthe North]

I wouldn't ask them to cease and desist, so your point is stupid.

Not as stupid as that response was. Good try though.

 

[CrimsonWhite]

Is this the same intelligence that said there were WMD's in Iraq and Saddam was connected to Al Quaeda? Sorry, not all that impressed. I am under the firm belief that the terrorists we need to worry about have long since moved on from Pakistan and into an area that is not under constant bombardment and military pressure. If anything, we are just creating a breeding ground in Pakistan for more extremists by continuing to show a complete disregard for Islam and its people.

Way to turn National Security into a partisan issue. Good job.

 

[I Missthe North]

Way to turn National Security into a partisan issue. Good job.

I am simply stating that the entire basis of your argument is intelligence from an Administration and intelligence community that has shown gross negligence in presenting the American public with the truth in the past 8 years. I am not saying all Republicans are evil and liars, I am saying that the Bush Administration has a history of lying to the American public. If you have a problem with the facts, then I apologize.

As I said before, and as you conveniently ignored, I have a hard time believing that anyone that is currently in Pakistan now presents the United States with a national security risk. How easy can it be to operate a terrorist organization in a region that is swarming with American military personnel (I guarantee you our Special Forces are operating regularly in the area)? As much as you might not want to believe it, they are smarter then that. But if people continue to be ignorant enough to believe that region of Pakistan is a our biggest worry right now, I guess the terrorists are doing a pretty good job or throwing us off their trail.