Did Morality Exist Before The Christian Religion?

[Si modo]

fuck off you driveby nitwit.

Irrespective of your sexual fantasies, you're advertizing that you've no knowledge of Greek history.

really? hmmm...


okay.

You asked, "Did democracy exist before the United States of America?".

Either you don't know Greek history, or you're asking questions to which you already know the answer. The former wouldn't surprise me and latter is pretty fucking lazy.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Irrespective of your sexual fantasies, you're advertizing that you've no knowledge of Greek history.

really? hmmm...


okay.

You asked, "Did democracy exist before the United States of America?".

Either you don't know Greek history, or you're asking questions to which you already know the answer. The former wouldn't surprise me and latter is pretty fucking lazy.

being the USMB resident expert on all things Greek eek I guess you majored in stupid?

rhetorical: (via Latin from Greek rhētorik&#275

 

[Si modo]

really? hmmm...


okay.

You asked, "Did democracy exist before the United States of America?".

Either you don't know Greek history, or you're asking questions to which you already know the answer. The former wouldn't surprise me and latter is pretty fucking lazy.

being the USMB resident expert on all things Greek eek I guess you majored in stupid?

rhetorical: (via Latin from Greek rhētorik&#275

LMAO! Yup, folks always follow up 'rhetorical' questions with, "If yes ...."

You just need your fix of bandwidth.

 

[bodecea]

Did morality exist before the Christian religion---did the difference between right and wrong exist before the Bible?

If yes, how does this square with the idea that America is a Christian nation, founded upon Christianity?

and then there is this idea...

Did democracy exist before the United States of America?

If yes, what examples of democracy was American democracy based on? What were these democracies founded upon if they were founded pre-Christianity?

"It is not the Founding Fathers who established America as a Christian nation, but the conservatives of the 1950s – nearly two centuries after the fact." -National Prayer Day: The Myth of a Christian America

"The founding fathers did not intend this to be a Christian nation."

Of course it is....the Jewish religion borrowed from older forms of religion and the Christians borrowed from the Jews and the Muslims borrowed from the Christians and Jews and so on and so forth...It's all reinvention and plagarism.

 

[bodecea]

Did morality exist before Christianity? Yes, it was reflected in the religion of the Hebrews.

Did democracy exist before America? Yes, our system is based on the one laid out by the Greeks.

And the Roman Republic....with a healthy dose of Freemasonry.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

You asked, "Did democracy exist before the United States of America?".

Either you don't know Greek history, or you're asking questions to which you already know the answer. The former wouldn't surprise me and latter is pretty fucking lazy.

being the USMB resident expert on all things Greek eek I guess you majored in stupid?

rhetorical: (via Latin from Greek rhētorik&#275

LMAO! Yup, folks always follow up 'rhetorical' questions with, "If yes ...."

You just need your fix of bandwidth.

So you're ADHD as well as stuck on stupid?

Did democracy exist before the United States of America?

If yes, what examples of democracy was American democracy based on? What were these democracies founded upon if they were founded pre-Christianity?

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Did morality exist before Christianity? Yes, it was reflected in the religion of the Hebrews.

Did democracy exist before America? Yes, our system is based on the one laid out by the Greeks.

And the Roman Republic....with a healthy dose of Freemasonry.

Illuminati!!!!!

 

[Polk]

Yes, it did.

What's the point of the thread?

Because there are many on the right who promote the idea that unless Christianity is given special protection by society, society will slip into chaos.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Yes, it did.

What's the point of the thread?

Because there are many on the right who promote the idea that unless Christianity is given special protection by society, society will slip into chaos.

Oscar is not the brightest bulb, eh?

 

[ABikerSailor]

Yeah......special protection for Christianity, special prosecution for all others.

Torquemada, anyone?

 

[Oscar Wao]

Yes, it did.

What's the point of the thread?

Because there are many on the right who promote the idea that unless Christianity is given special protection by society, society will slip into chaos.

Well, Polk, the OP could have been making any point...hence why I asked.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Yes, it did.

What's the point of the thread?

Because there are many on the right who promote the idea that unless Christianity is given special protection by society, society will slip into chaos.

Well, Polk, the OP could have been making any point...hence why I asked.

Not really. Somebody please, please throw this kid a life line?

 

[Madeline]

Did morality exist before the Christian religion---did the difference between right and wrong exist before the Bible?

If yes, how does this square with the idea that America is a Christian nation, founded upon Christianity?

and then there is this idea...

Did democracy exist before the United States of America?

If yes, what examples of democracy was American democracy based on? What were these democracies founded upon if they were founded pre-Christianity?

"It is not the Founding Fathers who established America as a Christian nation, but the conservatives of the 1950s – nearly two centuries after the fact." -National Prayer Day: The Myth of a Christian America

"The founding fathers did not intend this to be a Christian nation."

The likelihood is, as soon as humanoids crawled out of the Primordial Ooze, they established social mores for their groups. Without some rudimentary agreed-upon rules as to how we may and may not treat one another, group interaction would not be possible.

Judaism is now over 5,000 years old. Other religions that shared the Earth with Judaism at the time of its inception have likely been lost to the mists of time, but some Eastern religions are nearly as old and still going strong today.

Democracy, as a political philosophy, was a brain child of many a philospher after the Birth of The Industrial Age/End Of The Dark Ages. The theocracy and monarchy forms of government worked okay when populations were diffused and agraian, but less well when skilled trades and city dwelling arose as features of human life. Democracy in its essence is no more than a belief in a system of government where power is residual in the population and transferred only temporarially to elected officials.

No, I don't happen to think the Founders intended this to be "Christian nation". Quite the opposite, in fact. They very clearly wanted to prevent any theocracy or state religion from arising here. And despite what many would like to think, in the main, I think they succeeded in that goal.

Calling America a "Christian nation" makes as much sense to me as calling it a "Muslim nation" or "a Jewish nation" or "a Godless, athetist nation". We are Americans by dint of our citizenship, not our private worship habits.

 

[frazzledgear]

Did morality exist before the Christian religion---did the difference between right and wrong exist before the Bible?

If yes, how does this square with the idea that America is a Christian nation, founded upon Christianity?

and then there is this idea...

Did democracy exist before the United States of America?

If yes, what examples of democracy was American democracy based on? What were these democracies founded upon if they were founded pre-Christianity?

"It is not the Founding Fathers who established America as a Christian nation, but the conservatives of the 1950s – nearly two centuries after the fact." -National Prayer Day: The Myth of a Christian America

"The founding fathers did not intend this to be a Christian nation."

You are mixing apples and oranges and think you are making a point in there somewhere. Instead of pretending you are coming up with some really novel ideas I suggest you actually read the writings of the founders -because those will answer most of your questions. Of course if kids were required to read those writings while in school in order to better understand the origins of this country -you wouldn't have bothered with this post at all.

Asking whether morality existed before Christianity or not is bizarre -then asking if it did how that could square with the idea the US was founded upon Christianity? WTF?? What does that have to do with anything?

Of course morality existed before Christianity just like other religions existed before Christianity as well. The US was NOT founded upon Christianity but upon Judeo-Christian PRINCIPLES. We have a secular government, not a religious one. This was done to protect the church from government -not as some think to protect government from religion. In Europe governments controlled the church and used it as the means to control their citizens. In this country, forbidding government from interfering with the free exercise of religion was done to protect religions and the religious.

The US is NOT a democracy! Don't they teach anything about this country in schools anymore? The US is a constitutional republic, NOT a democracy. It has NEVER been a democracy. The founders looked at every known form of government and REJECTED democracy because of its serious flaws -while taking some tenets of democracy and incorporated it into the brand new form of government they created. They rejected every known form of government while they tried to borrow and incorporate the best features of some while trying to exclude their flaws.

Maybe you really didn't know this -but there was no other form of government like ours in existence prior to the establishment of our form of government. Ours was unique in the world and an experiment. The founders spent years and years reading, traveling debating, arguing, writing, re-writing and refining their ideas until they were able to agree upon the 16 page document that created a brand new system of government.

When people say this is a Christian nation, it merely means that is the religion of the vast majority and does NOT identify the type of government we have. Just like we say Saudi Arabia is a Muslim nation -that only tells us the religion of the majority but tells us nothing about their form of government -which is a monarchy. Calling Israel a Jewish nation tells us the religion of the majority but does NOT identify their type of government either -which is a parliamentary democracy and also a secular government. I bet you have absolutely no problem saying Israel is a Jewish nation even though they have a secular government -its identifying the religion of the majority in this country that sticks in the craw of people like you. Just can't bring yourself to admit this is a Christian nation can you? It sure as hell isn't a Buddhist one, is it? And as much as atheists want to pretend otherwise, it is not an atheist nation either because that would mean the vast majority of citizens were atheists which would be a huge lie. Only a tiny percent of Americans are atheists.

Sorry but you liberals need to get over yourselves and stop trying to re-write the history you wish were something other than what it is. The US is a Christian nation and a constitutional republic and secular government. (Secular only means "not ruled in accordance to a specific religious doctrine". It does NOT and never has meant "atheist". Secular allows for government acknowledgment and respect for the religions and religious beliefs of citizens, an atheist one would be openly HOSTILE to it. Believe it or not, government was ordered to remain neutral BETWEEN the religions. Not neutral between all religions on one side and atheism on the other. In addition while people like you want to pretend "Christianity" is a single religion -the different branches and sects were all considered to be different religions. And still are among Christians -just ask a Catholic if he thinks Mormonism is a Christian religion or ask a Baptist that question about Catholicism. LOL) How the founders intended our government to function was based on Judeo-Christian principles -not Marxist ones. In Judeo-Christian religions the individual takes primary responsibility for himself, not government. The individual is responsible for what he does and does not do because Judeo-Christian principles also realize that it will be the individual who is held accountable by God. No such thing as "collective salvation" in those religions even though some liberals like to pretend we would all get jointly earned brownie points toward heaven for living under a particular kind of government. Marxism rejects individualism and believes the collective is far more important than the individual lives who make up the whole. That doesn't square with Judeo-Christian principles whatsoever and if Marx's Communist Manifesto had existed at the time, would have been soundly rejected by the founders on the grounds that communism, which by its very nature is inhumane - is only fit for an ant colony but unfit for human life.

Anyone who picks up a book written in the 20th or 21st century that tries to pretend this was never a Christian nation (even though that only means it is the religion of the majority and does not in any way identify the type of government) is intent on DECEIVING others about our own history. If you want to know for a FACT what the founders believed and hoped to create, then there is no better source than the writings of the FOUNDERS THEMSELVES. Not someone a couple of centuries later with a political agenda trying to trash our own history and re-write it from scratch to suit the liberal agenda better.

If you REALLY want HONEST answers to your questions -as opposed to trying to sell others this same old liberal bill of goods -then read the Federalist Papers, written by the founders to explain the different parts of the Constitution and what their thinking was behind different paragraphs and even in their specific choice of words. Read George Washington's Inaugural Address, Jefferson's Inaugural Address, John Adam's "Thoughts on Government", ALL the writings of James Madison, Washington's Annual Messages to Congress of 1790-1793, the different drafts of the Declaration of Independence that led up to the final version, John Adams "Novanglus, 1775", do not cherry pick among Jefferson's writings trying to handpick what you think can be twisted to suit yourself but read them in their entirety so you understand the true context in which they were written. Just getting through Jefferson's writing will take you quite a bit of time since he was a prolific writer.

And that is just to start -there are literally tens of thousands more ORIGINAL writings of the founders that explain their thinking, opinions and beliefs. No need to guess at it or take the word of someone else who in reality has an ax to grind. You don't have to make it up and you don't have to rely on those intent on re-writing and distorting history as they push their own political agenda onto others.

You can get it direct from the horses' mouths -so you do that and go read all those writings of the founders first and then come back and tell us ALL about how actually all the founders were deists and not Christians at all, or how anti-God and anti-religious and anti-Christian the founders really were and all about how the founders believed this was never a Christian nation at all. ROFLMAO Nothing like going to the source itself if you want HONEST answers and the TRUTH. But if the truth makes you uncomfortable and doesn't mesh well with your own political agenda, then do exactly what you are doing. And pretend those with a political agenda two centuries later know much better than the founders possibly could about what they did and did not believe.

 

[blu]

Did morality exist before Christianity? Yes, it was reflected in the religion of the Hebrews.

Did democracy exist before America? Yes, our system is based on the one laid out by the Greeks.

yep.

 

[Dr Gregg]

Morality is an evolutionary trait for social creatures like ourselves to be able to live and work together. We succeed in groups, not individuals

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Did morality exist before the Christian religion---did the difference between right and wrong exist before the Bible?

If yes, how does this square with the idea that America is a Christian nation, founded upon Christianity?

and then there is this idea...

Did democracy exist before the United States of America?

If yes, what examples of democracy was American democracy based on? What were these democracies founded upon if they were founded pre-Christianity?

"It is not the Founding Fathers who established America as a Christian nation, but the conservatives of the 1950s – nearly two centuries after the fact." -National Prayer Day: The Myth of a Christian America

"The founding fathers did not intend this to be a Christian nation."

The likelihood is, as soon as humanoids crawled out of the Primordial Ooze, they established social mores for their groups. Without some rudimentary agreed-upon rules as to how we may and may not treat one another, group interaction would not be possible.

Judaism is now over 5,000 years old. Other religions that shared the Earth with Judaism at the time of its inception have likely been lost to the mists of time, but some Eastern religions are nearly as old and still going strong today.

Democracy, as a political philosophy, was a brain child of many a philospher after the Birth of The Industrial Age/End Of The Dark Ages. The theocracy and monarchy forms of government worked okay when populations were diffused and agraian, but less well when skilled trades and city dwelling arose as features of human life. Democracy in its essence is no more than a belief in a system of government where power is residual in the population and transferred only temporarially to elected officials.

No, I don't happen to think the Founders intended this to be "Christian nation". Quite the opposite, in fact. They very clearly wanted to prevent any theocracy or state religion from arising here. And despite what many would like to think, in the main, I think they succeeded in that goal.

Calling America a "Christian nation" makes as much sense to me as calling it a "Muslim nation" or "a Jewish nation" or "a Godless, athetist nation". We are Americans by dint of our citizenship, not our private worship habits.

Not bad, but you may want to look a few things up.

Starting with: Democracy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Democracy is a political form of government carried out either directly by the people (direct democracy) or by means of elected representatives of the people, as if the people and the elected person were one, linear line of decisions. (representative democracy). The term comes from the Greek: δημοκρατία - (dēmokratía) "rule of the people",[1] which was coined from δῆμος (dêmos) "people" and κράτος (krátos) "power", in the middle of the fifth-fourth century BC to denote the political systems then existing in some Greek city-states, notably Athens following a popular uprising in 508 BC.[2] Even though there is no specific, universally accepted definition of 'democracy'...