CDZ Did Australian gun confiscation stop mass shootings, if they have shootings in public spaces?

Discussion in 'Clean Debate Zone' started by 2aguy, Feb 24, 2018.

  1. 2aguy
    Offline

    2aguy Diamond Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2014
    Messages:
    64,983
    Thanks Received:
    11,460
    Trophy Points:
    2,030
    Ratings:
    +46,639
    The claim that Australian gun control stopped their mass public shootings has been trotted out again this last week. It was claimed at the CNN hour of hate, and on various news programs, local and national....

    I keep asking this question and the anti gunners here on U.S.message can't answer the question.......

    If an individual in Australia walks into a public space with a gun, shoots people, but doesn't decide to kill 3 people, or shoots more than 3 but they don't die...is Australian gun control really stopping mass public shootings......?

    --After 1997 when the gun confiscation ended.....

    --the individual had a gun

    --walked into a public space

    --shot people

    --decided to stop shooting at his own discretion

    --when they shoot more than 3 people, those people don't die

    --and this doesn't take into account the family murders where the shooter murders his familly, but could have walked into a mall, a school or a theater either instead of murdering his family or in addition to murdering his family.....

    Here is just a short list of shootings in public spaces....how were these stopped by Australian gun control laws?

    .2011 Hectorville siege - Wikipedia
    Monash University shooting - Wikipedia
    Melbourne gangland killings - Wikipedia
    Silk–Miller police murders - Wikipedia
    The La Trobe University shooting
    Millewa state forest killings
    Peter James Knight abortion clinic shooter
    2002 Cabramatta wedding shooting, 7 people shot, not killed
    Jean Eric Gassy - Wikipedia
    2007 Melbourne CBD shootings - Wikipedia
    2011 Hectorville siege - Wikipedia
    —-25 October 2003 – Greenacre double murder – A man and a woman were shot dead in a house in the suburb of Greenacre, Sydney, the result of a feud between two Middle Eastern crime families. Twenty-four-year-old Ziad Abdulrazak was shot 10 times in the chest and head and 22-year-old Mervat Hamka was shot twice in the neck while she slept in her bedroom. Up to 100 shots were fired into the house by four men who were later arrested and convicted of the murders.
    —28 April 2012 – A man opened fire in a busy shopping mall in Robina on the Gold Coast, Queensland, shooting Bandidos bikie Jacques Teamo. A woman who was an innocent bystander was also injured from a shotgun blast to the leg. Neither of the victims died, but the incident highlighted the recent increase in gun crime across major Australian cities including Sydney, Brisbane and Adelaide.[108][109][110][111
    Queen Street Mall, Brisbane - Wikipedia
    2014 Sydney hostage crisis - Wikipedia
    –10 September 2015 – Karin Lock was shot dead in a McDonald’s restaurant in the Gold Coast by her ex-husband Stephen Lock, who then turned the gun on himself and shot himself dead.[140][141][142]
    2015 Parramatta shooting - Wikipedia
    –7 March 2016 – Finks bikie gang member Wayne Williams armed himself with an AK 47 rifle and shot and killed Michael Bassal and shot and wounded his brothers Terry Bassal and Mark Bassal outside an industrial building in the suburb of Ingleburn Sydney. Williams then barricaded himself inside the building and took three hostages, resulting in a siege and stand off with police. He later released the three hostages and shot himself dead. The shootings were committed as a result of a business deal gone wrong.[citation needed]
     
  2. Weatherman2020
    Offline

    Weatherman2020 Educating Libs Since 1978

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2013
    Messages:
    36,324
    Thanks Received:
    6,906
    Trophy Points:
    1,200
    Location:
    Left Coast, Classified
    Ratings:
    +41,298
    Australia also does not have a border with one of the worlds most violent nations to smuggle guns in either.
     
  3. Toronado3800
    Offline

    Toronado3800 VIP Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2009
    Messages:
    5,037
    Thanks Received:
    387
    Trophy Points:
    85
    Ratings:
    +817
    Sir, your signature makes me think you may be biased and here to start a fight rather than debate.

    I'll chase your logic circle though.

    As difficult as it is to tell if someone WOULD HAVE committed a crime with a legally purchased gun it is logical to assume someone did not commit a crime with a legally purchased gun where there are no legally sold guns.
     
  4. cnm
    Offline

    cnm Diamond Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2013
    Messages:
    12,934
    Thanks Received:
    9,016
    Trophy Points:
    2,255
    Location:
    Aotearoa
    Ratings:
    +35,840
    Your definition seems strange. From where did it come? Generally, mass shootings are considered to fit the FBI model, where four or more are killed, not counting the perpetrator. Do any of your Australian examples fit that model? So mass shootings in Australia either stopped or reduced significantly after firearm reform there.

    Generally, mass murder was described as a number of murders (four or more) occurring during the same incident, with no distinctive time period between the murders.
    https://www.fbi.gov

     
  5. 2aguy
    Offline

    2aguy Diamond Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2014
    Messages:
    64,983
    Thanks Received:
    11,460
    Trophy Points:
    2,030
    Ratings:
    +46,639

    I am here to debate the issue...I have a side and I will argue for it.

    No.......there are two parts to this...

    1) There have been no mass shootings in Australia, defined as 3 or more killed in a public space.

    2) Australian gun control laws had nothing to do with this...at all.

    Individuals...with guns, walked into public spaces after the 1997 confiscation and shot people...that is a fact. It is also a fact that Australian gun control laws, and the confiscation did not stop them from doing this.

    Saying and repeating that Australian gun control stopped mass public shooting is either being uninformed, or they are lying to cover up the failure of their vaunted gun control extremism.
     
    • Funny Funny x 2
  6. 2aguy
    Offline

    2aguy Diamond Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2014
    Messages:
    64,983
    Thanks Received:
    11,460
    Trophy Points:
    2,030
    Ratings:
    +46,639

    Obama changed the number from 4 to 3......

    And again.....these are the facts..


    1) There have been no mass shootings in Australia, defined as 3 or more killed in a public space.

    2) Australian gun control laws had nothing to do with this...at all.

    Individuals...with guns, walked into public spaces after the 1997 confiscation and shot people...that is a fact. It is also a fact that Australian gun control laws, and the confiscation did not stop them from doing this.

    Saying and repeating that Australian gun control stopped mass public shooting is either being uninformed, or they are lying to cover up the failure of their vaunted gun control extremism.
     
  7. cnm
    Offline

    cnm Diamond Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2013
    Messages:
    12,934
    Thanks Received:
    9,016
    Trophy Points:
    2,255
    Location:
    Aotearoa
    Ratings:
    +35,840
    Link, you lunatic?
     
  8. 2aguy
    Offline

    2aguy Diamond Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2014
    Messages:
    64,983
    Thanks Received:
    11,460
    Trophy Points:
    2,030
    Ratings:
    +46,639

    Here....he wanted to increase the number of shootings classified as mass public shootings in order to push gun control...the same reason he sold guns to Mexican drug cartels...

    FACT CHECK: Did More Mass Shootings Take Place Under Obama Than Any Other President?

    Moreover, in January 2013 a mandate for federal investigation of mass shootings authorized by President Obama changed the previous definition of what constitutes a “mass shooting” event by lowering the minimum number of victims from four to three, thereby increasing the number of such incidents so classified during President Obama’s second term.
     
  9. 2aguy
    Offline

    2aguy Diamond Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2014
    Messages:
    64,983
    Thanks Received:
    11,460
    Trophy Points:
    2,030
    Ratings:
    +46,639

    You have your link......and this is the CDZ, watch the language....
     
  10. Toronado3800
    Offline

    Toronado3800 VIP Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2009
    Messages:
    5,037
    Thanks Received:
    387
    Trophy Points:
    85
    Ratings:
    +817
    There is a logic problem here. It is impossible to know what shootings did not happen.

    Few people email you or I and say, "I would have shot up my work if I had a gun."

    I'll tell you if I had an appropriate gun to be carrying about while fishing I would have shot a dog last year. If I did in the uppity high profile park I was it it would have made the news if I did shoot a upper middle class white man's dog. Me not shooting the dog did not make the news or any crime statistics that said the dog did not get shot because this man hasn't owned a .38 in a few years.

    You CAN look at stats about gun violence being higher places with legal guns vs lower in places w/o legal guns or the opposite. I'll even give you that certain kinds of crime largely happen with illegal guns which won't be off the street for decades(!) if you outlaw guns.
     

Share This Page