Describe Heaven To Me, Please

[Madeline]

The problem with using the Bible to describe heaven to a non believer is that the believer can incorporate all the parables and metaphors and symobolism and imagery into a fuller concept without having to believe that yes, it is exactly like it is described in the Bible. The non believer doesn't have the advantage of the Holy Spirit to merge all that into a deeper understanding.

I tend to agree with the Trace Adkins song Hortysir posted that heaven isn't necessarily something all in the future--I think we get glimpses and experience some of it right here, right now. Also hell, whatever that may be.

Onna my dearest friends is a devout Southern Baptist. He says Hell is an eternity spent repeating the very sins that got you condemned in the first place.

I have to say, that is a chilly thought.

I hope he's wrong because a whole lot of folks have a LOT of fun doing those sins even if they feel remorse later. Okay I know I'm demonstrating the sin of vanity, but I don't want the folks who don't go to heaven to get a better deal than those of us who do.

I leave issues of whatever hell is up to God and don't worry about it. The Biblical accounts are even more symbolic and obscure than the Biblical descriptions of heaven, and I don't pretend to even have a clue what hell is like.

I have enjoyed a little story being circulated around though about the guy who died and was met by Peter and Satan. Peter took him up on the elevator to show him a life pretty much like the one he had lived but with most of the uglies removed. "I can give you complete assurance that this is pretty much what you can expect," said St. Peter. It looked pretty darn good.

Satan then took him down on the elevator to show him a world of golf and yachts and casinos and a wonderful array of wines, liquors, delicacies, and all manner of pleasures and good times. That looked better.

Back on the surface he thanked both and reported that he thought his lifestyle was better suited for hell.

He was put back on the elevator and went down to find a vast colorless wasteland with nothing in it but miserable people wandering through it.

"What happened?" He asked Satan.

"Before I was campaigning," Satan replied. "Then you voted."

I think we all should give careful thought about what we vote for.


I think I prefer

I dunno, Foxfyre. Suppose you were condemned because you were a sexual predator and regarded other humans as animated meat? Over and over, for all eternity, fucking meat and listening to the wailing of victims?

No sleep. No rest. No other input. No one to brag to. Nothing but the same depraved act, repeated endlessly.

I think that might could be quite hellish.....of course, I no more believe in Hell than I do in Heaven, but I am not one who thinks our most sinful moments give us any joy, either.

 

[Foxfyre]

Onna my dearest friends is a devout Southern Baptist. He says Hell is an eternity spent repeating the very sins that got you condemned in the first place.

I have to say, that is a chilly thought.

I hope he's wrong because a whole lot of folks have a LOT of fun doing those sins even if they feel remorse later. Okay I know I'm demonstrating the sin of vanity, but I don't want the folks who don't go to heaven to get a better deal than those of us who do.

I leave issues of whatever hell is up to God and don't worry about it. The Biblical accounts are even more symbolic and obscure than the Biblical descriptions of heaven, and I don't pretend to even have a clue what hell is like.

I have enjoyed a little story being circulated around though about the guy who died and was met by Peter and Satan. Peter took him up on the elevator to show him a life pretty much like the one he had lived but with most of the uglies removed. "I can give you complete assurance that this is pretty much what you can expect," said St. Peter. It looked pretty darn good.

Satan then took him down on the elevator to show him a world of golf and yachts and casinos and a wonderful array of wines, liquors, delicacies, and all manner of pleasures and good times. That looked better.

Back on the surface he thanked both and reported that he thought his lifestyle was better suited for hell.

He was put back on the elevator and went down to find a vast colorless wasteland with nothing in it but miserable people wandering through it.

"What happened?" He asked Satan.

"Before I was campaigning," Satan replied. "Then you voted."

I think we all should give careful thought about what we vote for.


I think I prefer

I dunno, Foxfyre. Suppose you were condemned because you were a sexual predator and regarded other humans as animated meat? Over and over, for all eternity, fucking meat and listening to the wailing of victims?

No sleep. No rest. No other input. No one to brag to. Nothing but the same depraved act, repeated endlessly.

I think that might could be quite hellish.....of course, I no more believe in Hell than I do in Heaven, but I am not one who thinks our most sinful moments give us any joy, either.

Sure there have been people who do pure evil but the average sinner I think is more like me. Mostly well intentioned but falling short of perfection at every turn and intentionally or unintentionally spoiling God's perfect creation. My definition of sin is all that causes harm to ourselves and/or others either directly or indirectly, either intentionally or unintentionally, either immediately or perhaps generations later as some unintended consequence. That's why sin is bad. It has consequences.

The Bible is instructive that all have sinned and fallen short and none of us deserve heaven. (I'll admit I question that one sometimes. I've always imagined standing in line behind say a Mother Theresa or some other selfless individual and hearing the keeper of the gate tell her or him that s/he didnt do enough to get in. )

But ultimately I know none of us are perfect and none of us can do enough to get in. Which is why I am profoundly conscious and appreciative of God's love and grace that accepts us anyway.

And of course I believe that grace is available to all, even to those who don't know it yet.

 

[Madeline]

I have this recurring nightmare about religion, Foxfyre. I die, I get sent to Heaven and I find some fuckwhit there as well. A huge fight breaks out about this injustice, I refuse to back down, and out I go......LOLOLOL.

 

[Foxfyre]

I have this recurring nightmare about religion, Foxfyre. I die, I get sent to Heaven and I find some fuckwhit there as well. A huge fight breaks out about this injustice, I refuse to back down, and out I go......LOLOLOL.

LOL. I've found so many varied ways to screw up stuff over my lifetime, I figure if there is a way to screw up my heaven experience, I'll find it.

I am just trusting that there are a lot more time outs offered in heaven than we get down here.

 

[zzzz]

Heaven is bliss. We mere mortals cannot begin to comprehend the pleasure of heaven just as we cannot comprehend the pain and suffering of hell. Sure we have both here on earth but that is but a grain of sand on a beach compared to what awaits us after death.

The authors of the Bible wrote about the images of the visions they were shown in relation to their worlds. For example, if they saw blackhawk helicopters they would have described them as black locusts. They had no idea what a helicopter was and if they saw missiles being launched from them they would say they were breathing fire or something like that. They would relate it to the things in their world. The same goes for their images of hell and heaven.

I believe when you go to heaven all your earthly desires and needs will fall away and you will experience something so ... awesome. I feel sorry for those of you who do not believe and take the Lord as your Savior but that is your choice.

 

[asterism]

Onna my dearest friends is a devout Southern Baptist. He says Hell is an eternity spent repeating the very sins that got you condemned in the first place.

I have to say, that is a chilly thought.

I hope he's wrong because a whole lot of folks have a LOT of fun doing those sins even if they feel remorse later. Okay I know I'm demonstrating the sin of vanity, but I don't want the folks who don't go to heaven to get a better deal than those of us who do.

I leave issues of whatever hell is up to God and don't worry about it. The Biblical accounts are even more symbolic and obscure than the Biblical descriptions of heaven, and I don't pretend to even have a clue what hell is like.

I have enjoyed a little story being circulated around though about the guy who died and was met by Peter and Satan. Peter took him up on the elevator to show him a life pretty much like the one he had lived but with most of the uglies removed. "I can give you complete assurance that this is pretty much what you can expect," said St. Peter. It looked pretty darn good.

Satan then took him down on the elevator to show him a world of golf and yachts and casinos and a wonderful array of wines, liquors, delicacies, and all manner of pleasures and good times. That looked better.

Back on the surface he thanked both and reported that he thought his lifestyle was better suited for hell.

He was put back on the elevator and went down to find a vast colorless wasteland with nothing in it but miserable people wandering through it.

"What happened?" He asked Satan.

"Before I was campaigning," Satan replied. "Then you voted."

I think we all should give careful thought about what we vote for.


I think I prefer

I dunno, Foxfyre. Suppose you were condemned because you were a sexual predator and regarded other humans as animated meat? Over and over, for all eternity, fucking meat and listening to the wailing of victims?

No sleep. No rest. No other input. No one to brag to. Nothing but the same depraved act, repeated endlessly.

I think that might could be quite hellish.....of course, I no more believe in Hell than I do in Heaven, but I am not one who thinks our most sinful moments give us any joy, either.

Seems strange to dream and talk so much about something you don't believe in.

Jus' sayin'

 

[hortysir]

I don't believe in an eternal torment of hell.
For that to happening one would need eternal life.
Eternal life is a reward.

 

[asterism]

I don't believe in an eternal torment of hell.
For that to happening one would need eternal life.
Eternal life is a reward.

A very interesting perspective.

 

[Zoom-boing]

Do you have a belief in the afterlife that involves Heaven and Hell? Can you describe Heaven for me?

I was raised RCC, before 1969. Seems to me, the description we got involved a tiered arrangement of regimented groups and a lot of choral music. Sounded like about as much fun as a trip to the dentist, to be frank.

So how do you envision Heaven and why would you want to linger there for All Eternity?

It's filled with dogs. Who could ask for anything more?

 

[Foxfyre]

Seems strange to dream and talk so much about something you don't believe in.

Jus' sayin'

Not strange at all. I don't necessarily believe in Big Foot or the Loch Ness Monster or alien abductions or vampires, but I am interested in the lore, legends, and theories that have sprung up around all these things. And should I hear from a credible believer that I respected who had a convincing argument that such things are real or I experienced them myself, I would likely then become a believer or at least be more open to the possibility.

I don't know if an alien space craft crashed near Roswell NM more than 60 years ago, but I have talked with people who say they were there and who are quite believable. And that means I keep an open mind about it.

An open mind provides a lot of possibilities about a lot of things that otherwise won't exist for us.

 

[asterism]

Seems strange to dream and talk so much about something you don't believe in.

Jus' sayin'

Not strange at all. I don't necessarily believe in Big Foot or the Loch Ness Monster or alien abductions or vampires, but I am interested in the lore, legends, and theories that have sprung up around all these things. And should I hear from a credible believer that I respected who had a convincing argument that such things are real or I experienced them myself, I would likely then become a believer or at least be more open to the possibility.

I don't know if an alien space craft crashed near Roswell NM more than 60 years ago, but I have talked with people who say they were there and who are quite believable. And that means I keep an open mind about it.

An open mind provides a lot of possibilities about a lot of things that otherwise won't exist for us.

Good points.

 

[hortysir]

I don't believe in an eternal torment of hell.
For that to happening one would need eternal life.
Eternal life is a reward.

A very interesting perspective.

Thanks
I take the definition of Hades literally to mean the grave. That's it.
You either get "called up" or ya don't

 

[asterism]

I don't believe in an eternal torment of hell.
For that to happening one would need eternal life.
Eternal life is a reward.

A very interesting perspective.

Thanks
I take the definition of Hades literally to mean the grave. That's it.
You either get "called up" or ya don't

I can agree with that. Heaven is eternal life and Hell is the exact opposite. Not quite the fire and brimstone perpetual suffering meant to scare the masses, but just as harsh without the control of those on Earth.

 

[Montrovant]

I've always wondered if people really think through the concept of eternal life. Eternity is, IMO, something we can only barely comprehend; like the idea of nothingness, I think we know what they mean but can never fully wrap our minds around them. We are, of course, stuck with the linear, short-lived perception of time we are given. If there is any sort of afterlife, and if it is truly eternal, I can't imagine human beings being able to live it as we are without going hopelessly insane. That being the case, an eternal afterlife would require a drastic enough change in perception that understanding it or being able to describe it would be impossible. We aren't talking about a thousand years, or a thousand lifetimes; any fixed amount of time is meaningless compared to eternity, it NEVER ENDS. Humans aren't equipped to truly understand that or deal with the reality of it should it exist.

 

[Madeline]

I hope he's wrong because a whole lot of folks have a LOT of fun doing those sins even if they feel remorse later. Okay I know I'm demonstrating the sin of vanity, but I don't want the folks who don't go to heaven to get a better deal than those of us who do.

I leave issues of whatever hell is up to God and don't worry about it. The Biblical accounts are even more symbolic and obscure than the Biblical descriptions of heaven, and I don't pretend to even have a clue what hell is like.

I have enjoyed a little story being circulated around though about the guy who died and was met by Peter and Satan. Peter took him up on the elevator to show him a life pretty much like the one he had lived but with most of the uglies removed. "I can give you complete assurance that this is pretty much what you can expect," said St. Peter. It looked pretty darn good.

Satan then took him down on the elevator to show him a world of golf and yachts and casinos and a wonderful array of wines, liquors, delicacies, and all manner of pleasures and good times. That looked better.

Back on the surface he thanked both and reported that he thought his lifestyle was better suited for hell.

He was put back on the elevator and went down to find a vast colorless wasteland with nothing in it but miserable people wandering through it.

"What happened?" He asked Satan.

"Before I was campaigning," Satan replied. "Then you voted."

I think we all should give careful thought about what we vote for.


I think I prefer

I dunno, Foxfyre. Suppose you were condemned because you were a sexual predator and regarded other humans as animated meat? Over and over, for all eternity, fucking meat and listening to the wailing of victims?

No sleep. No rest. No other input. No one to brag to. Nothing but the same depraved act, repeated endlessly.

I think that might could be quite hellish.....of course, I no more believe in Hell than I do in Heaven, but I am not one who thinks our most sinful moments give us any joy, either.

Seems strange to dream and talk so much about something you don't believe in.

Jus' sayin'

All good horror and sci fi begins with the same question, asterism.....

"What if...?"

 

[Urbanguerrilla]

Seems strange to dream and talk so much about something you don't believe in.

Jus' sayin'

Not strange at all. I don't necessarily believe in Big Foot or the Loch Ness Monster or alien abductions or vampires, but I am interested in the lore, legends, and theories that have sprung up around all these things. And should I hear from a credible believer that I respected who had a convincing argument that such things are real or I experienced them myself, I would likely then become a believer or at least be more open to the possibility.

I don't know if an alien space craft crashed near Roswell NM more than 60 years ago, but I have talked with people who say they were there and who are quite believable. And that means I keep an open mind about it.

An open mind provides a lot of possibilities about a lot of things that otherwise won't exist for us.

What do you base your non-belief in the lock ness monster or big foot on, evidence perhaps?

 

[Foxfyre]

Seems strange to dream and talk so much about something you don't believe in.

Jus' sayin'

Not strange at all. I don't necessarily believe in Big Foot or the Loch Ness Monster or alien abductions or vampires, but I am interested in the lore, legends, and theories that have sprung up around all these things. And should I hear from a credible believer that I respected who had a convincing argument that such things are real or I experienced them myself, I would likely then become a believer or at least be more open to the possibility.

I don't know if an alien space craft crashed near Roswell NM more than 60 years ago, but I have talked with people who say they were there and who are quite believable. And that means I keep an open mind about it.

An open mind provides a lot of possibilities about a lot of things that otherwise won't exist for us.

What do you base your non-belief in the lock ness monster or big foot on, evidence perhaps?

Yes. Empirical evidence. I have not experienced seeing either nor have I ever heard or read witness from somebody I know to be believable and credible that such things exist. On the other hand there are 'photographs' showing images that have not been explained away etc., and reports of sightings so who knows? As for alien spacecraft, I have heard testimony from people who have seen such and there are hundreds of reports of people who claim to have been on board these things. That means to me that one must consider they these folks are experiencing something. But what? I have not experienced that myself and, though I have heard testimony of sightings from people who are credible and believable, I remain slightly skeptical that what they saw may not be what they think they saw. But I keep an open mind.

On the other hand I have experienced the living God and have heard witness of their experiences from people I know to be believable, so for me that one is a no brainer.

 

[AllieBaba]

If you're serious about finding a description of heaven, I direct you to the bible. People who have questions of faith should never get their information second hand.

The bible describes it. No pain, no sorry, continual joy, reunited with loved ones, mansions to reside in. Doesn't sound like a trip to the dentist to me.

The problem with using the Bible to describe heaven to a non believer is that the believer can incorporate all the parables and metaphors and symobolism and imagery into a fuller concept without having to believe that yes, it is exactly like it is described in the Bible. The non believer doesn't have the advantage of the Holy Spirit to merge all that into a deeper understanding.

I tend to agree with the Trace Adkins song Hortysir posted that heaven isn't necessarily something all in the future--I think we get glimpses and experience some of it right here, right now. Also hell, whatever that may be.

Astute..but you left out this...the bible is holy and is the Word itself...and just by reading the bible, we are inviting the Holy Spirit in, and thereby gain in understanding. Reading the bible brings uderstading and the Holy Spirit's blessigs with it. You don't have to believe. If you read, the spirit comes knocking and understanding follows.

 

[Madeline]

If you're serious about finding a description of heaven, I direct you to the bible. People who have questions of faith should never get their information second hand.

The bible describes it. No pain, no sorry, continual joy, reunited with loved ones, mansions to reside in. Doesn't sound like a trip to the dentist to me.

The problem with using the Bible to describe heaven to a non believer is that the believer can incorporate all the parables and metaphors and symobolism and imagery into a fuller concept without having to believe that yes, it is exactly like it is described in the Bible. The non believer doesn't have the advantage of the Holy Spirit to merge all that into a deeper understanding.

I tend to agree with the Trace Adkins song Hortysir posted that heaven isn't necessarily something all in the future--I think we get glimpses and experience some of it right here, right now. Also hell, whatever that may be.

Astute..but you left out this...the bible is holy and is the Word itself...and just by reading the bible, we are inviting the Holy Spirit in, and thereby gain in understanding. Reading the bible brings uderstading and the Holy Spirit's blessigs with it. You don't have to believe. If you read, the spirit comes knocking and understanding follows.

Not for everyone, Allie. For some of us, it is just a book. Parts of it are lovely -- who doesn't appreciate the beauty of Psalms? -- and parts are boring, but in the end, it is nothing but a collection of old stories. The act of reading alone doesn't magically make anyone a christian, anymore than reading the Koran magically makes anyone a Muslim, etc.

It may be your talisman, but t'aint mine.

Sorry.

 

[Gentle Storm]

... The act of reading alone doesn't magically make anyone a christian...

Have you considered that the act of not believing doesn't magically make reality disappear?