Deregulation???

[Zoomie1980]

Sorry folks, you don't get to blame deregulation when there's something else even more detrimental in our monetary policy.

Until we stop artificially manipulating the credit market, and enticing risky investment, there's no amount of regulation or deregulation that is going to help us. We wouldn't have had to be in a position of whether or not to blame deregulation for this mess, had there not been a policy of artificially cheap credit, particularly in the early part of the decade following the tech bubble and 9/11.

There would have been no housing boom if rates had not been dangerously low. The answer to pulling through an economic downturn is not always to cheapen credit. Putting the country into more debt does not fix anything. And we are seeing that now. But what's the solution ONCE AGAIN?

Cheap credit.

When the banks start releasing all of this new money, the next mess begins.

If nothing else it was "Regulation" that at least marginally contributed to the over all crisis. By encouraging and even forcing lending institutions to give loans to people they otherwise would not and keeping rates artificially low, certainly added to the extremeness of the collapse. But a bubble would have happened anyway, just not likely as severe.

I always love it when people who love the markets when they are booming think the free market system is "broken" when it busts??? Government is POWERLESS to prevent recessions and contractions just at is POWERLESS to create booms. The economic cycle is an entity all unto itself, beyond government control. But government intervention is almost ALWAYS detrimental to market function and almost NEVER beneficial. Which is why Governments sole basic function should be limited mostly to National Defense, the only thing it seems even remotely capable of doing.

 

[Zoomie1980]

it is the duty to make things transparent so that we CAN make an informed decision...

DO YOU REALLY BELIEVE that all of us would have continued to put our money in the stock market and in to the companies that were playing hide and go seek with their true financial standings and let ourselves to be screwed from here to high heaven on our 401k investments?

I don't think we are that stupid, there was a TRUST in our government regulatory system and a TRUST in the companies that rated the stocks we were buying....

otherwise we would NOT have just set ourselves up for this crash....and losing 40% of the value of our 401k's...

and the money market managers, who had fiduciary responsibilities to us, would not have continued to put our monies in to unsafe companies and stocks....if this transparency was there imo.

Anyone that "trusts" any government to do anything is a fool and gets what they deserve when they choose to do so. Government is mostly USELESS.

 

[Care4all]

Anyone that "trusts" any government to do anything is a fool and gets what they deserve when they choose to do so. Government is mostly USELESS.

i think you are wrong on this zoomie...regulation IS what made our financial system work for the average guy and the wealthiest....

AND IS WHAT made America what it became and what all other countries desired....thus their investments in us....due to it's honesty with transparency on the market.

What just happened to us and to the rest of the world who trusted our markets IS what has caused this mess and IS what has now caused this huge lack of confidence in us....

Regulation of these markets is good....as long as it is not a strangulation.

So, i am not going to give up my trust in my gvt when it comes to police, or the firedept, in knowing i can have safe food on my table or a bridge thaqt will not fall apart when i am crossing it or a house that will not fall apart after i buy it.....

The gvt failed at their DUTY to assure the safety and security of the market...not in my choices of who i picked to buy, but in making certain all was visible for me to make my informed choices....they failed EVERYONE throughout the world and we have been dicked because of it....this failure came from them trusting "self regulation" of the industry, WHICH ULTIMATELY IS WHAT FAILED US....

SO, it is a matter of politics i would suppose...in general those gvt people on the right who think self regulation of each individual business on their own is A-OK, or those on the left who believe that regulation of the markets IS one of the most important parts of the market that makes it tick...

i pick the latter, because the former just FAILED.



care

 

[Care4all]

Anyone that "trusts" any government to do anything is a fool and gets what they deserve when they choose to do so. Government is mostly USELESS.

i think you are wrong on this zoomie...regulation IS what made our financial system work for the average guy and the wealthiest....

AND IS WHAT made America what it became and what all other countries desired....thus their investments in us....due to it's honesty with transparency on the market.

What just happened to us and to the rest of the world who trusted our markets IS what has caused this mess and IS what has now caused this huge lack of confidence in us....

Regulation of these markets is good....as long as it is not a strangulation.

So, i am not going to give up my trust in my gvt when it comes to police, or the firedept, in knowing i can have safe food on my table or a bridge that will not fall apart when i am crossing it or a house that will not fall apart after i buy it.....

The gvt failed at their DUTY to assure the safety and security of the market...not in my choices of who i picked to buy, but in making certain all was visible for me to make my informed choices....they failed EVERYONE throughout the world and we have been dicked because of it....this failure came from them trusting "self regulation" of the industry, WHICH ULTIMATELY IS WHAT FAILED US....

SO, it is a matter of politics i would suppose...in general those gvt people on the right who think self regulation of each individual business on their own is A-OK, or those on the left who believe that regulation of the markets IS one of the most important parts of the market that makes it tick...

i pick the latter, because the former just FAILED.



care

And this is not negating what the Fed has been doing with printing money and giving the banks cheap money as a part in this mess...i don't deny such, but this...we can see...it is transparent and we can factor it in to our decisions...*

 

[Bern80]

i think you are wrong on this zoomie...regulation IS what made our financial system work for the average guy and the wealthiest....

AND IS WHAT made America what it became and what all other countries desired....thus their investments in us....due to it's honesty with transparency on the market.

There is no real evidence for this. One can argue America was founded with several ideals in mind, but the transparencty of it's financial institutions? You're just making stuff up now. The main concept this country was founded on was freedom, something that doesn't coexist real well with regulation.

What just happened to us and to the rest of the world who trusted our markets IS what has caused this mess and IS what has now caused this huge lack of confidence in us....

Regulation of these markets is good....as long as it is not a strangulation.

Again you're just making stuff up. Many reasons have been given as to why the economy is failing now. I have yet to here lack of foreign confidence in our markets be one of those major drivers.

So, i am not going to give up my trust in my gvt when it comes to police, or the firedept, in knowing i can have safe food on my table or a bridge that will not fall apart when i am crossing it or a house that will not fall apart after i buy it.....

Then again you are fool. The reality of how government behaves has shown time and time again there is no logical reason what so ever to put any trust in them. Get your head out of the sand.

The gvt failed at their DUTY to assure the safety and security of the market...not in my choices of who i picked to buy, but in making certain all was visible for me to make my informed choices....they failed EVERYONE throughout the world and we have been dicked because of it....this failure came from them trusting "self regulation" of the industry, WHICH ULTIMATELY IS WHAT FAILED US....

The government has no legal DUTY where the market is concerned. You simply want to be dependant on them because you are too lazy to educate yourself.

SO, it is a matter of politics i would suppose...in general those gvt people on the right who think self regulation of each individual business on their own is A-OK, or those on the left who believe that regulation of the markets IS one of the most important parts of the market that makes it tick...

i pick the latter, because the former just FAILED.

The fact of the matter is the vast majority of businesses regulate themselves just fine. The transgressions of a few do not constitute a failure of the whole.

 

[9 Volt]

The fact of the matter is the vast majority of businesses regulate themselves just fine. The transgressions of a few do not constitute a failure of the whole.[/QUOTE]

Uh this is simply not true. Every industry is bound by it's own set and many sub-sets of regulation and most of the time these regulations serve to protect citizens, consumers, and honest competing companies from fraud, abuse and neglect by rogue business men or corporations. THIS is one of the things that distinguishes America from countries like Poland or Chile where the historical lack of regulatory control has had a major influence on the downfall of those economies. People like to point out Chile as a rich nation, but the truth is that under Pinoche, when all regulations were abolished, multi-national corporations took immediate control of her resources and eradicated her economic infrastructure, killing the middle class. Chile remains one of the most economically and socially divided countries in the world today. Where would our healthcare industry be without Stark laws, the foundation of regulation within that industry? Your doctor would be using you as livestock and selling off your bodily fluids and tissue as meat to pharma corps. and doing unecessary procedures for a profit ten times greater than he now sees. That industry would be shamefully even more corrupt than it is now. Regulation has a place in American business, we just need to find a system that allows the free market to flow without tipping the balance to the aristocracy.

 

[Bern80]

Uh this is simply not true. Every industry is bound by it's own set and many sub-sets of regulation and most of the time these regulations serve to protect citizens, consumers, and honest competing companies from fraud, abuse and neglect by rogue business men or corporations. THIS is one of the things that distinguishes America from countries like Poland or Chile where the historical lack of regulatory control has had a major influence on the downfall of those economies. People like to point out Chile as a rich nation, but the truth is that under Pinoche, when all regulations were abolished, multi-national corporations took immediate control of her resources and eradicated her economic infrastructure, killing the middle class. Chile remains one of the most economically and socially divided countries in the world today. Where would our healthcare industry be without Stark laws, the foundation of regulation within that industry? Your doctor would be using you as livestock and selling off your bodily fluids and tissue as meat to pharma corps. and doing unecessary procedures for a profit ten times greater than he now sees. That industry would be shamefully even more corrupt than it is now. Regulation has a place in American business, we just need to find a system that allows the free market to flow without tipping the balance to the aristocracy.

You can keep your misplaced faith in the government. I will keep mine in the people. Most business onwers are and have been smart enough not to make enemies with their consumers. A select few large businesses were not so smart and frankly deserve to fail because of it. You must have a pretty bleak outlook of your fellow man if you think the only thing keeping them from taking advantage of you is our wonderful government.

 

[Care4all]

There is no real evidence for this. One can argue America was founded with several ideals in mind, but the transparencty of it's financial institutions? You're just making stuff up now. The main concept this country was founded on was freedom, something that doesn't coexist real well with regulation.

Freedom of the individual, based on the rule of law, is what we were founded on.


Again you're just making stuff up. Many reasons have been given as to why the economy is failing now. I have yet to here lack of foreign confidence in our markets be one of those major drivers.

you are not paying attention then...our bail out was for foreigners as well and to get THEIR confidence in investing in us again. We have too much national debt to sell off and it is a MUST to bring worldwide confidence back to our market imo.

Then again you are fool. The reality of how government behaves has shown time and time again there is no logical reason what so ever to put any trust in them. Get your head out of the sand.

i guess i could say the same for you but more polite,

Get your head out of the sand!!!

The government has no legal DUTY where the market is concerned. You simply want to be dependant on them because you are too lazy to educate yourself.

you are nuts and losing it!!! Regulating business moderately IS THE KEY to our success.

The fact of the matter is the vast majority of businesses regulate themselves just fine. The transgressions of a few do not constitute a failure of the whole.

This was NOT the transgressions of a FEW, to imply such shows your ignorance on the topic Bern.... and quite frankly, i think you are tooooo smart to be playing this ignorance hand and give a "pass" on our entire economy's crash...

We have regulated our markets and businesses adequately since the Great Depression and we have prospered BECAUSE OF SUCH.

Care

 

[9 Volt]

You can keep your misplaced faith in the government. I will keep mine in the people. Most business onwers are and have been smart enough not to make enemies with their consumers. A select few large businesses were not so smart and frankly deserve to fail because of it. You must have a pretty bleak outlook of your fellow man if you think the only thing keeping them from taking advantage of you is our wonderful government.

I'm sorry if you don't like that fact that industries are bound by rules. We have laws in society and regulations in business. That's the way America works. Who would you call if someone kidnapped one of your kids? Not one of those damned PUBLIC SERVANTS that enforce THE LAW. No say it ain't so. You may not know it but you don't want corporate anarchy in this country, believe me.