Dept Homeland Security buying 450 MILLION hollow point bullets; 175 MILLION rifle rds

[bucs90]

What's really funny is that the U.S. has enough nuclear warheads to send the entire planet into nuclear winter hundreds of times over - yet no one seems to mind that.

No one wants to end humanity. They just want to control it. See: Entire Obama presidency.

That's incorrect. Many Conservatives do see an "endtime" for humanity. Hence the support for Israel.

No....they think humanity WILL see an end, but they dont necessarily promote or hope for it. They believe God will decide that.

HOWEVER, many on the left are closet, or public, supporters of eugenics. I can prove that easily with ample links if you desire. Or...simply point to Obama's favorite...his Science and Climate advisor John Holder, a eugenics advocate who truly believes in sterilizing humanity or "other means" to reduce population. Yep, literally end humanity haha!!! Obama has befriended or admired far more than one follower of eugenics though.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Nope. They are just signing a contract for it. Nothing to see here folks, move along....... right through the TSA screenings please, and through the DHS checkpoint beyond that.

They aren't signing a contract to buy 450 million rounds.

They have an OPTION to buy UP TO that amount over a 4 year period. An OPTION means they are not obligated to buy ANY rounds at all.

Please - I will insist that you base your argument on fact.

Yes, I know how governments work and purchase. I worked for a fairly big one down here.

You submit yourself as an expert on how government works since you used to work for one?

And I also know governments ALWAYS buy their allotment of anything they contract to "possibly" buy, and most of the time go beyond that budget.

Always? Always? Without qualification? Really? That's a tough claim to make in an evidence based argument, because it means your opponent, me, only has to come up with ONE example where that is not true to prove you wrong. And here it is:
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/20/us/20anthrax.html
So there, you are wrong.

If they "can" by 450 million, they probably "will".....and beyond. Unless Barack Obama has all of a sudden embrace fiscal conservatism in his regime.

What would truly be amazing is if you actually decided to argue based on objective, verifiable fact, rather than hoping your years of working for an unnamed government will make us all just believe whatever you say.

 

[bucs90]

Its not an unnamed government, I have shared it here many times. Retired (disability) from Atlanta PD. And it's not exactly classified information....budgets are very common procedures. Do a contract for about how much you predict you'll need. Sign it. Order what you need.

Now, yes, you GOT ME, you get the cardboard cookie. Governments dont ALWAYS go over budget. Sometimes they stay within it. But the deficits and debts show that....well, you get the point.

You dont have to believe anything I say. But if you believe governments rarely go over budget...well, I'll leave that one to others' imagination. And if you think DHS only needed, say, 20 million, but made room/budget for 450 million, you are just ignorant. It is pure fact that hollow points are duty-only and FMJ are for practice/training. So...DHS predicted, in their little super-not-so-secret budget meetings that they could need over the next four years...somewhere at or about 450 million DUTY rounds.

Why? Who knows. Thats why I find it interesting. Its either a massive Obama era overspend, or, well they are expecting some shitty weather.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

OompaLoompaDoo:

He said "we cannot rely only on the military" for our "national security agenda". Thats what he said. Well, since when can the Peace Corp or those other UNARMED agencies provide NATIONAL SECURITY that we would normally rely on the military for? You fell for left wing speech hypnosis. Bury the agenda amongst a sea of harmless shit like the Peace Corp.

I'll sort through the shit for you:

1- We can't keep relying only on the military for....
2- ....our National Security agenda......
3- ....meaning we need some group to do what the military would....

That adds up to a Civilian Defense Corp, which would do what the military would normally be expected do (If, as Obama said, we can't only rely on the military). So...a civilian corp to do a job the military would do, meaning they'll need guns right?

You are far too trusting of such a dictator-like president. God we need Romney to win and slow this mess down.

You didn't actually read the full statement until now...

---yet--- its clear from your posts that you already had made a conclusion as to its meaning.

So you conclude that the President wants to set up a Gestapo - and THEN you look to his words to find evidence of it.


That's backwards.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Its not an unnamed government, I have shared it here many times. Retired (disability) from Atlanta PD.

Well I guess its safe to assume that every single government always acts exactly like the Atlanta city government. That's definitely a way to make the world seem less complicated.

And it's not exactly classified information....budgets are very common procedures. Do a contract for about how much you predict you'll need. Sign it. Order what you need.

So in your opinion should the government wait until after WW III starts to begin setting up contracts to buy arms?

Now, yes, you GOT ME, you get the cardboard cookie.

I have to say, I'm surprised and impressed that a rightie would admit they are wrong, even on a small meaningless point.

Governments dont ALWAYS go over budget. Sometimes they stay within it. But the deficits and debts show that....well, you get thelpoint.

No, I don't,.

You dont have to believe anything I say. But if you believe governments rarely go over budget...well, I'll leave that one to others' imagination. And if you think DHS only needed, say, 20 million, but made room/budget for 450 million, you are just ignorant.

I would think that the variance in the Department of Homeland Security's future need for armament would be far greater than Atlanta PD's. That's just my educated guess. If WW III broke out - the U.S. Government would all of a sudden need lots and lots and lots of bullets. How many times in the past 100 years has Atlanta PD experienced a sudden and imminent need for 10, 100, 1000 times as many armaments as they have?

In WWII billions of rounds were discharged http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_bullets_were_fired_in_ww2

Is it conceivable to you that the mission and purpose of the Department of Homeland Security might be different than Atlanta PD? Just a thought.

It is pure fact that hollow points are duty-only and FMJ are for practice/training. So...DHS predicted, in their little super-not-so-secret budget meetings that they could need over the next four years...somewhere at or about 450 million DUTY rounds.

They clearly predicted they would AT MOST need that many.

Why? Who knows. Thats why I find it interesting. Its either a massive Obama era overspend, or, well they are expecting some shitty weather.

Oh, its just an overspend now? I thought he was arming a civilian defense corps to tyrannize innocent American citizens and begin a new dictatorship. Which is it? I guess when you don't need actual evidence it can be whatever you like it to be!

 

[bucs90]

OompaLoompaDoo:

He said "we cannot rely only on the military" for our "national security agenda". Thats what he said. Well, since when can the Peace Corp or those other UNARMED agencies provide NATIONAL SECURITY that we would normally rely on the military for? You fell for left wing speech hypnosis. Bury the agenda amongst a sea of harmless shit like the Peace Corp.

I'll sort through the shit for you:

1- We can't keep relying only on the military for....
2- ....our National Security agenda......
3- ....meaning we need some group to do what the military would....

That adds up to a Civilian Defense Corp, which would do what the military would normally be expected do (If, as Obama said, we can't only rely on the military). So...a civilian corp to do a job the military would do, meaning they'll need guns right?

You are far too trusting of such a dictator-like president. God we need Romney to win and slow this mess down.

You didn't actually read the full statement until now...

---yet--- its clear from your posts that you already had made a conclusion as to its meaning.

So you conclude that the President wants to set up a Gestapo - and THEN you look to his words to find evidence of it.


That's backwards.

No. I think he has a distorted view of the role of the military, and what in the utopia he has in mind should be a more national civilian policing force. I think he would support a national police force, and dissolve most local and county forces, to have a more consistent and "equal" application of the law across the country, and of course, more federal power on local law enforcement issues (See: Civil Rights investigations, immigration, anti-profiling, etc).

But there is no doubt that he literally said we need a civilian defense corp, trained to military standards, to do a job or take a role that would normally be done by the military. He never defined that role did he? Just that this force would be military trained, and do a job the military shouldn't be relied on to do for the sake of "national security".

I think he's leaning towards national police force to do what city and county cops do now. Which wouldn't be such a huge change, except it takes a LOT of states and cities rights and replaces them with the order of the feds to enforce local laws. The basic small gov't vs big gov't argument.

 

[eots]

i thought he was arming a civilian defense corps to tyrannize innocent american citizens and begin a new dictatorship

thats the basic plan but but it does not require obama ..romney will do just as well

 

[bucs90]

I would think that the variance in the Department of Homeland Security's future need for armament would be far greater than Atlanta PD's.
Is it conceivable to you that the mission and purpose of the Department of Homeland Security might be different than Atlanta PD? Just a thought.

Yes, their missions are very different.

And I'll bet you a steak dinner Atlanta PD shoots at more people per year than all of Homeland Security's agencies. The Feds rarely get their hands dirty.

 

[bucs90]

So in your opinion should the government wait until after WW III starts to begin setting up contracts to buy arms?

If WW3 breaks out, it will be fought by the Department of Defense..............not the Department of Homeland Security. DHS is a law enforcement agency. Mostly doing port security and screenings. Rarely do they get into shootings.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

I would think that the variance in the Department of Homeland Security's future need for armament would be far greater than Atlanta PD's.
Is it conceivable to you that the mission and purpose of the Department of Homeland Security might be different than Atlanta PD? Just a thought.

Yes, their missions are very different.

And I'll bet you a steak dinner Atlanta PD shoots at more people per year than all of Homeland Security's agencies. The Feds rarely get their hands dirty.

Do you honestly think that statement would hold in a worse case national security scenario?

Do you think the government should be prepared for a worse case national security scenario? This is a 4 year option. Do you honestly think the government should just assume business as usual for the next 4 years?

 

[eots]

I would think that the variance in the Department of Homeland Security's future need for armament would be far greater than Atlanta PD's.
Is it conceivable to you that the mission and purpose of the Department of Homeland Security might be different than Atlanta PD? Just a thought.

Yes, their missions are very different.

And I'll bet you a steak dinner Atlanta PD shoots at more people per year than all of Homeland Security's agencies. The Feds rarely get their hands dirty.

HOMELAND SECURITY IS MORE OF A DOMESTIC SPY OPERATION AND AGENCY OF SOCIAL CONTROL THAN LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCY

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

So in your opinion should the government wait until after WW III starts to begin setting up contracts to buy arms?

If WW3 breaks out, it will be fought by the Department of Defense..............not the Department of Homeland Security.

It will only strictly be fought by the DoD if the war doesn't come here. If it comes here every federal agency involved in security (and every state agency - and every citizen with a gun) will be working to defend us.

Its funny that as an American you think of a world war in terms of something that doesn't happen here. We had the luxury during WW II of only being attacked on our soil a couple of times. That is not the norm for a world war.

DHS is a law enforcement agency. Mostly doing port security and screenings. Rarely do they get into shootings.

The Coast Guard falls under DHS and they are not strictly law enforcement.

 

[bucs90]

Yes, their missions are very different.

And I'll bet you a steak dinner Atlanta PD shoots at more people per year than all of Homeland Security's agencies. The Feds rarely get their hands dirty.

HOMELAND SECURITY IS MORE OF A DOMESTIC SPY OPERATION AND AGENCY OF SOCIAL CONTROL THAN LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCY

I'd guess partially true. They include: DHS | Organizational Chart

- Coast Guard
- Border Patrol
- TSA
- Customs
- ICE
- Secret Service
- FEMA


And OoomapLoompaDoo is gonna be suprised to hear ATL PD shoots more people a year than all those combined. But, same would be true for LAPD, Chicago PD, Miami PD, etc. But I bet those agencies aren't budgeting for 450 Million DUTY rounds.

 

[bucs90]

So in your opinion should the government wait until after WW III starts to begin setting up contracts to buy arms?

If WW3 breaks out, it will be fought by the Department of Defense..............not the Department of Homeland Security.

Only if the war doesn't come here. Its funny that as an American you think of a world war in terms of something that doesn't happen here. We had the luxury during WW II of only being attacked on our soil a couple of times. That is not the norm for a world war.

DHS is a law enforcement agency. Mostly doing port security and screenings. Rarely do they get into shootings.

The Coast Guard falls under DHS and they are not strictly law enforcement.

Correct: The CG is not considered the military.

However, they are, as a guess, 99.9% law enforcement. I know they deploy some, but not into true combat zones. Most of their work is counter-drug and water safety. Heroic guys btw! I love our local CG crews, they save a lot of lives.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

However, they are, as a guess, 99.9% law enforcement.

Now. Yes. During an all out war - not so much.

 

[bucs90]

So in your opinion should the government wait until after WW III starts to begin setting up contracts to buy arms?

If WW3 breaks out, it will be fought by the Department of Defense..............not the Department of Homeland Security.

It will only strictly be fought by the DoD if the war doesn't come here. If it comes here every federal agency involved in security (and every state agency - and every citizen with a gun) will be working to defend us.

Its funny that as an American you think of a world war in terms of something that doesn't happen here. We had the luxury during WW II of only being attacked on our soil a couple of times. That is not the norm for a world war.

DHS is a law enforcement agency. Mostly doing port security and screenings. Rarely do they get into shootings.

The Coast Guard falls under DHS and they are not strictly law enforcement.

Then should the average US citizen be allowed to buy assault rifles and hoard ammo to prepare for a potential mass war on our soil? Obama doesn't think so.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

HOMELAND SECURITY IS MORE OF A DOMESTIC SPY OPERATION AND AGENCY OF SOCIAL CONTROL THAN LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCY

I'd guess partially true. They include: DHS | Organizational Chart

- Coast Guard
- Border Patrol
- TSA
- Customs
- ICE
- Secret Service
- FEMA


And OoomapLoompaDoo is gonna be suprised to hear ATL PD shoots more people a year than all those combined.

I'm not surprised at all.

I guess we should based our national security needs off of the needs of atlanta PD.

But, same would be true for LAPD, Chicago PD, Miami PD, etc. But I bet those agencies aren't budgeting for 450 Million DUTY rounds.

Clearly the Department of Homeland Security should be run exactly like a local PD.

 

[bucs90]

However, they are, as a guess, 99.9% law enforcement.

Now. Yes. During an all out war - not so much.

If WW3 comes here, there wont be much of a difference in LE, military, civilian. We'll all be at war. Should we all have the rights to buy military grade weapons now? Would you be OK if the Atlanta PD started buying M1 tanks and apache helos??? You know, "just in case" they gotta fight off an invasion?

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

HOMELAND SECURITY IS MORE OF A DOMESTIC SPY OPERATION AND AGENCY OF SOCIAL CONTROL THAN LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCY

I'd guess partially true. They include: DHS | Organizational Chart

- Coast Guard
- Border Patrol
- TSA
- Customs
- ICE
- Secret Service
- FEMA


And OoomapLoompaDoo is gonna be suprised to hear ATL PD shoots more people a year than all those combined.

I'm not surprised at all.

I guess we should based our national security needs off of the needs of atlanta PD.

But, same would be true for LAPD, Chicago PD, Miami PD, etc. But I bet those agencies aren't budgeting for 450 Million DUTY rounds.

Clearly the Department of Homeland Security should be run exactly like a local PD. Anyone who thinks otherwise is a moron and who would know better about what Homeland Security needs than a former local cop?

In fact Obama should just fire all the upper level positions at DHS and replace them with former cops from Atlanta, LAPD, and New Orleans.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

However, they are, as a guess, 99.9% law enforcement.

Now. Yes. During an all out war - not so much.

If WW3 comes here, there wont be much of a difference in LE, military, civilian. We'll all be at war. Should we all have the rights to buy military grade weapons now? Would you be OK if the Atlanta PD started buying M1 tanks and apache helos??? You know, "just in case" they gotta fight off an invasion?

I'm sure you wouldn't mind DHS giving you some of their 450 million rounds.

You've also got your national guard.

You know, "just in case" they gotta fight off an invasion?

BTW - I love how you mock the idea that the U.S. Government should be prepared for a worse case national security scenario.