Dems at it again

[CSM]

Why would you make that assumption? I do believe that *I'm* the one talking about how stupid it is that a country with our wealth has 50% of its bankruptcies because people can't pay for medical care.



Interesting how every industrialized nation makes sure their populace can get medical care but if we have medical INSURANCE, that's socialized?

Silliness.....




I have no issues with military or government types getting health coverage. You're the ones who don't want others to have what you do.

The difference in my mind is that in one case the citizen gets something in return for offering that benefit (non socialized) while in the other case (socialized) the citizen gets nothing in return.

The cost of health care which you allude to above is another discussion all together.

As for others having what I have, by all means, if they are willing to pay the price that I have paid (military service or otherwise) then they should have what I have! I am not specifically referring to military service here. Trying to make it appear as if I am selfish or mean is just a wee bit below what I expected from you (but not by much). I dont want any individual who is not WILLING TO WORK for that benefit to have what I have. Earning a health care benefit is one thing, expecting it as an entitlement is quite another.

 

[CSM]

I disagree. If taxpayers are paying for it, it is socialized medicine whether it is to fulfill a contractual agreement or not.

Well then I guess we have a fundamental disagreement in opinions. I will never agree that payment for service (regardless of source of funding) is equal to socialism.

 

[Ravi]

Well then I guess we have a fundamental disagreement in opinions. I will never agree that payment for service (regardless of source of funding) is equal to socialism.

Excellent! I won't try to tell you how to think, either.

btw, what does CSM stand for?

 

[CSM]

Excellent! I won't try to tell you how to think, either.

btw, what does CSM stand for?

Command Sergeant Major. It is the rank I had achieved prior to retirement from the US Army....you know, one of those great big socialist organizations.

 

[Foxfyre]

In my never-to-be-considered humble opinion, socialized anything assumes government control of the service provided and/or the means by which it is provided. So if the government hands us a check as a result of a contractual agreement but we can choose where we will spend it, even if we are required to spend it on say healthcare, that is not socialized medicine. If the government dictates where and how we can spend it, that is socialized medicine.

So in the case of VA, Medicare, Medicade we can have a mixed system in which the government exercises some control but allows considerable freedom to make private choices. So I believe our current government involved systems are both socialized and private. The socialized part is bad enough, however, and I sure don't want to think how it would look if the whole system becomes socialized.

 

[Ravi]

Command Sergeant Major. It is the rank I had achieved prior to retirement from the US Army....you know, one of those great big socialist organizations.

I don't think the Army is a socialist organization. But paying for medical care for the retired vets is a social program.

 

[CSM]

I don't think the Army is a socialist organization. But paying for medical care for the retired vets is a social program.

I got the gist of your opinion earlier in this discussion. From my perspective, there is no point in pursuing this discussion any further. Having said that, I truly appreciate your civility throughout said discussion. Kudos to you!

 

[Ravi]

I got the gist of your opinion earlier in this discussion. From my perspective, there is no point in pursuing this discussion any further. Having said that, I truly appreciate your civility throughout said discussion. Kudos to you!

Ditto!

I was trying to think of a nickname for you because CSM is so awkward...how about Commie (short for Command)?

 

[CSM]

Ditto!

I was trying to think of a nickname for you because CSM is so awkward...how about Commie (short for Command)?

Stick to CSM (though I appreciate the humor)!

 

[jreeves]

I don't think the Army is a socialist organization. But paying for medical care for the retired vets is a social program.

I guess private employers providing retirement benefits is socialistic in nature. Even though it is driven by the free market. If a certain employer didn't provide medical, dental or retirement benefits then they would lose great employees to other competitors in the market place.

The same would go for the military as well, if they didn't provide medical care for retired vets. Then enlistments would dramatically drop due to competition from the private sector. Besides very few military personel would accept such a paltry pay if they didn't see the benefits awaiting them when they retire.

 

[Ravi]

I guess private employers providing retirement benefits is socialistic in nature.

Only if mandated by the government.

 

[jreeves]

Only if mandated by the government.

So you agree that for the vast majority of employers providing medical, dental and retirement benefits is a free market principle? Then you would agree with the logical transition from that to retired vets medical care correct?

 

[Ravi]

So you agree that for the vast majority of employers providing medical, dental and retirement benefits is a free market principle? Then would agree with the logical transition from that to retired vets medical care correct?

In the case of the employers, it isn't coming out of my pocket.

 

[jreeves]

In the case of the employers, it isn't coming out of my pocket.

Fair enough, but you do understand that the military couldn't compete with the private sector if they eliminated retirement benefits for vets right?

 

[Ravi]

Fair enough, but you do understand that the military couldn't compete with the private sector if they eliminated retirement benefits for vets right?

Can they anyway? Seems to me that more and more military jobs are being outsourced.

I have no problem with giving them retirement benefits, btw. But I still consider it a social program.

 

[jreeves]

Can they anyway? Seems to me that more and more military jobs are being outsourced.

I have no problem with giving them retirement benefits, btw. But I still consider it a social program.

Yes they can, (hopefully no copyright infringement there to Obama), they have consistentially competed with the private sector. Sure the military would like to do better but they still have competed pretty agressively with the private sector. A huge part of the military appeal is due to their benefits which allows them to compete in a free market.

 

[WhoisJohnGault]

Can they anyway? Seems to me that more and more military jobs are being outsourced.

I have no problem with giving them retirement benefits, btw. But I still consider it a social program.

So then you feel that the military does not earn their retirement benefits? God knows their pay is not extravagant!!!

 

[WhoisJohnGault]

As I have stated elsewhere in this thread, should the citizens of this country decide that military service is not valuable enough to have health care included as a benefit, then they should remove said benefit from the contract the offer to prospective government employees.

I heartily second that opinion.

 

[WhoisJohnGault]

Ah yes, the flag surrender of the idiots who imagine themselves to be conservatives and patriots

When lost, assume that the people whose thoughts are beyond your limited ability to understand must be leftists.

The anti- intellectual refuge of angry white male morons of our age.

Call anything you don't understand or like either liberalism or socialism.

Go read a book, dude.

You don't know appear to know anything, or if you do, you clearly don't know how to take your knowledge and covert it into words.

Clearly this poster is a liberal, a socialist far left lib. His writings are almost verbatiim of every other lib I have seen on boards. As you said there is a definitie difference between PROMOTING the general welfare and PROVIDING the general welfare. I'm sick of libs who fail to see the truth or just do not want to see the truth. You know, libs think that if they say something often enough it will be true; they actually begin to believe it.

And who in heck thought that our Constitution allows for healthcare to be provided????

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Usual position of Ravi. Ignorant, uninformed and based on nothing but stupidity.

Using her logic , firefighters, Police and every other Government ( Federal or In her State) employee is sucking off the Government tit if they foolishly work to retirement. But magically if they do a similar job for a private employer and get retirement, that is DIFFERENT.

With Logic like that, who needs to live in the real world?