Democrats' Wisconsin Worry

[kiwiman127]

You're really not getting it, are you? I'll try to simplify it for you.

Obama and the DNC haven't put any effort behind Barrett. If they care so much about the campaign, why haven't they?

Ok doc, I'll simplify it so even the useful idiots can get it. Obama is an IMAGE...not a leader. He has NO substance. He is a cult of personality. If the DNC, and by extension the leader of the democrat party, Obama backed the recall and it fails...the image is tarnished. NOT something a president who is already in deep do needs in an election year.

Obama and the DNC don't NEED to put effort in because they have their surrogates to do it for them. If their surrogates fail...no damage. If Obama fails...BIG damage. If you believe this hasn't happened at the direction of the White House...I've got some beach front in Nevada you might be interested in!

The more impotent unions become, the more impotent the middle class has become. But I guess that doesn't matter.

I just love when people post these stupid graphs as some mythical proof of some point of view or the other. RIDICULOUS!

You want to know what started us down the road to this mythical 1% crap...take a look at the years preceding that decline. Ever hear of LBJ? How about the great society? How about all the new government departments and regulations installed by democrats that KILLED the US auto industry, nationalized the education department and on an on.

If I had time, I'd post some stats that would blow your mind. Of course...it would be such a small pop that no one would notice. LOL

Seriously...that's ridiculous. Unions have declined because INDUSTRY IS DEAD IN THIS COUNTRY!

And that has a lot to do with our products being priced out of existence BECAUSE of unions and overly intrusive government regulations enacted at the direction of special interest groups!

The decline iof the Middle Class started in the 70's, that's when wage growth for the working class became stagnant and reversed itself.

Year Weekly Real Earnings Comp/Wages Weekly Compensation
(1982-84 dollars) (1982-84 dollars)

1972 $341.83 1.14 $388.01
1975 $314.75 1.16 $366.63
1980 $290.86 1.20 $348.93
1985 $285.34 1.22 $347.10
1990 $271.12 1.21 $328.99
1995 $267.07 1.22 $326.23
2000 $284.79 1.20 $341.49
2005 $284.99 1.24 $352.87
2010 $297.67 1.24 $370.28
2011 $294.78 1.24 $365.77

Will you look at that! In Real Dollars, wages earners are making less than they were in 1972!

Just keep on supporting the demise of democracy will being a shill of plutocracy.

 

[Buford]

Many Dem leaders told them this was foolish, but nooooooooo, the miscreant little punks got their fweewings hurt so they had to spend more taxpayer money in the spiteful angry rant. This is why our nation is sick.

 

[LogikAndReazon]

Its concerning that state welfare civil servant workers cant "collectively bargain" with their democrat paymasters............

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Nope, not quite.

But it's cool. The Citizen's United decision pays my bills.

Yes, quite. Read it sometime.

Read what? The First Amendment, or the Citizen's United decision?

I've definitely read both. But as I said, it's fine. Although I disagree with the decision, I enjoy the money that Unions and left-wing organizations pay me to run campaigns for them that I wouldn't have gotten had it not been for Citizen's United.

Quite literally, Citizen's United has put money in my pocket, so I guess I'm on the fence.

You're bought and paid for.


You should be proud

!

 

[Conservative]

You're really not getting it, are you? I'll try to simplify it for you.

Obama and the DNC haven't put any effort behind Barrett. If they care so much about the campaign, why haven't they?

Ok doc, I'll simplify it so even the useful idiots can get it. Obama is an IMAGE...not a leader. He has NO substance. He is a cult of personality. If the DNC, and by extension the leader of the democrat party, Obama backed the recall and it fails...the image is tarnished. NOT something a president who is already in deep do needs in an election year.

Obama and the DNC don't NEED to put effort in because they have their surrogates to do it for them. If their surrogates fail...no damage. If Obama fails...BIG damage. If you believe this hasn't happened at the direction of the White House...I've got some beach front in Nevada you might be interested in!

The more impotent unions become, the more impotent the middle class has become. But I guess that doesn't matter.

I just love when people post these stupid graphs as some mythical proof of some point of view or the other. RIDICULOUS!

You want to know what started us down the road to this mythical 1% crap...take a look at the years preceding that decline. Ever hear of LBJ? How about the great society? How about all the new government departments and regulations installed by democrats that KILLED the US auto industry, nationalized the education department and on an on.

If I had time, I'd post some stats that would blow your mind. Of course...it would be such a small pop that no one would notice. LOL

Seriously...that's ridiculous. Unions have declined because INDUSTRY IS DEAD IN THIS COUNTRY!

And that has a lot to do with our products being priced out of existence BECAUSE of unions and overly intrusive government regulations enacted at the direction of special interest groups!

The decline iof the Middle Class started in the 70's, that's when wage growth for the working class became stagnant and reversed itself.

Year Weekly Real Earnings Comp/Wages Weekly Compensation
(1982-84 dollars) (1982-84 dollars)

1972 $341.83 1.14 $388.01
1975 $314.75 1.16 $366.63
1980 $290.86 1.20 $348.93
1985 $285.34 1.22 $347.10
1990 $271.12 1.21 $328.99
1995 $267.07 1.22 $326.23
2000 $284.79 1.20 $341.49
2005 $284.99 1.24 $352.87
2010 $297.67 1.24 $370.28
2011 $294.78 1.24 $365.77

Will you look at that! In Real Dollars, wages earners are making less than they were in 1972!

Just keep on supporting the demise of democracy will being a shill of plutocracy.

charts and numbers posted without identifying the sources are meaningless.

 

[LogikAndReazon]

" I enjoy the money that Unions and left-wing organizations pay me to run campaigns for them that I wouldn't have gotten had it not been for Citizen's United..."



Communist, Socialist and Marxist organizations need worthless stooges and useful idiots to do the grunt work.................

 

[GoneBezerk]

I recall the dumbfuck libs here claiming the recall was a done deal.....

 

[westwall]

You're really not getting it, are you? I'll try to simplify it for you.

Obama and the DNC haven't put any effort behind Barrett. If they care so much about the campaign, why haven't they?

Ok doc, I'll simplify it so even the useful idiots can get it. Obama is an IMAGE...not a leader. He has NO substance. He is a cult of personality. If the DNC, and by extension the leader of the democrat party, Obama backed the recall and it fails...the image is tarnished. NOT something a president who is already in deep do needs in an election year.

Obama and the DNC don't NEED to put effort in because they have their surrogates to do it for them. If their surrogates fail...no damage. If Obama fails...BIG damage. If you believe this hasn't happened at the direction of the White House...I've got some beach front in Nevada you might be interested in!

The more impotent unions become, the more impotent the middle class has become. But I guess that doesn't matter.

I just love when people post these stupid graphs as some mythical proof of some point of view or the other. RIDICULOUS!

You want to know what started us down the road to this mythical 1% crap...take a look at the years preceding that decline. Ever hear of LBJ? How about the great society? How about all the new government departments and regulations installed by democrats that KILLED the US auto industry, nationalized the education department and on an on.

If I had time, I'd post some stats that would blow your mind. Of course...it would be such a small pop that no one would notice. LOL

Seriously...that's ridiculous. Unions have declined because INDUSTRY IS DEAD IN THIS COUNTRY!

And that has a lot to do with our products being priced out of existence BECAUSE of unions and overly intrusive government regulations enacted at the direction of special interest groups!

The decline iof the Middle Class started in the 70's, that's when wage growth for the working class became stagnant and reversed itself.

Year Weekly Real Earnings Comp/Wages Weekly Compensation
(1982-84 dollars) (1982-84 dollars)

1972 $341.83 1.14 $388.01
1975 $314.75 1.16 $366.63
1980 $290.86 1.20 $348.93
1985 $285.34 1.22 $347.10
1990 $271.12 1.21 $328.99
1995 $267.07 1.22 $326.23
2000 $284.79 1.20 $341.49
2005 $284.99 1.24 $352.87
2010 $297.67 1.24 $370.28
2011 $294.78 1.24 $365.77

Will you look at that! In Real Dollars, wages earners are making less than they were in 1972!

Just keep on supporting the demise of democracy will being a shill of plutocracy.

No dear boy, the decline only became noticeable then. The policies which have led to the destruction of the middle class were actually implemented way back in the teens. It takes a long time to build an entitlement and helpless mentality.

I have a US Communist Party newspaper from 1932 and it decried the fact that 76% of the nations wealth was controlled by 2% of the population. Shortly thereafter Democrats took over both houses and kept them for 40 continuous years. The Democrats also controlled the presidency for a great percentage of that time as well.

The net result of liberal Democratic rule? ONE percent now controls 90% of the wealth. So who were the liberal Democrats working for? 'Cause it certainly wasn't the middle class. They have raped the middle class.

 

[Conservative]

I recall the dumbfuck libs here claiming the recall was a done deal.....

Should Walker prevail, the libtards will still claim victory. They'll say it was a victory because it got people talking... changed the dynamic... you know, the same shit they said when OWS failed to produce anything meaningful.

 

[GoneBezerk]

The media in WI will just claim it put in place the Obamination campaign machine.....

I recall the dumbfuck libs here claiming the recall was a done deal.....

Should Walker prevail, the libtards will still claim victory. They'll say it was a victory because it got people talking... changed the dynamic... you know, the same shit they said when OWS failed to produce anything meaningful.

 

[Dr.House]

Democrats will probably claim Walker cheated...

Like they did when Kloppenplop lost...

 

[Dreadnaught1968]

Democrats will probably claim Walker cheated...

Like they did when Kloppenplop lost...

We avoided the STD. We didn't get the Klop...

 

[JDzBrain]

The decline iof the Middle Class started in the 70's, that's when wage growth for the working class became stagnant and reversed itself.

Year Weekly Real Earnings Comp/Wages Weekly Compensation
(1982-84 dollars) (1982-84 dollars)

1972 $341.83 1.14 $388.01
1975 $314.75 1.16 $366.63
1980 $290.86 1.20 $348.93
1985 $285.34 1.22 $347.10
1990 $271.12 1.21 $328.99
1995 $267.07 1.22 $326.23
2000 $284.79 1.20 $341.49
2005 $284.99 1.24 $352.87
2010 $297.67 1.24 $370.28
2011 $294.78 1.24 $365.77

Will you look at that! In Real Dollars, wages earners are making less than they were in 1972!

Just keep on supporting the demise of democracy will being a shill of plutocracy.

Ok...and first. If you are going to have ANY serious input into a discussion about politics in this country...you need know what political system that is. WE DO NOT HAVE A DEMOCRACY IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA!!!!

We have a representative republic! VERY different things. Democracies don't work..never have, never will...our Republican form of government DOES. As a matter of fact...and since you seem so concerned about what the founders intend with our Constitution...try this. The federal government was only directed to do about a half dozen things by the Constitution and everything else was for the states and we the people. NOT thousands of things, about 6 things and describes exactly how. Things like deliver the mail, defend our borders and the like. Among those things is to provide that the states are GUARANTEED a Republican form of government. NOT a democracy.

So, I wish you guys would stop with that democracy stuff. Until 1913(remember that year for the next post I have quoted below), senators were NOT ELECTED...they were chosen by the peoples representatives who WERE elected in their home state. THAT is how the founders intended it to be. It insured that the state rep AND the senator were accountable to the people back home for what they did in Washington. As a matter of fact, we need to repeal the 17th Amendment as a beginning to take our government back to it's founding!

Now, to you numbers. Just stating the same statistics in numeric form instead of graphic form does not add weight to an argument. Those numbers are simple representations...a symptom of a disease. The numbers don't mean a thing without context.

Trust me, I LIVED through those years. The wife and I were a struggling young couple in those days. Vietnam, cheap Japanese steel, autos, electronics and dozens of other imports from Japan and Twain had more to do with the demise of unions and concentration of wealth away from the middle class back then than some mystical link between unions and the middle class.

Hell, over 80% of Americans have NEVER BEEN IN A UNION...then or now!

No dear boy, the decline only became noticeable then. The policies which have led to the destruction of the middle class were actually implemented way back in the teens. It takes a long time to build an entitlement and helpless mentality.

I have a US Communist Party newspaper from 1932 and it decried the fact that 76% of the nations wealth was controlled by 2% of the population. Shortly thereafter Democrats took over both houses and kept them for 40 continuous years. The Democrats also controlled the presidency for a great percentage of that time as well.

The net result of liberal Democratic rule? ONE percent now controls 90% of the wealth. So who were the liberal Democrats working for? 'Cause it certainly wasn't the middle class. They have raped the middle class.

Exactly so westwall. Some of these folks don't understand that the rhetoric they are regurgitating began in this country with the Fabian Socialist...import from England around 1900. A socialist agenda that was adopted by the FIRST progressive president, Woodrow Wilson. The guy who helped start us down the road to serfdom.

If these jackwagon...useful idiots don't lay of the class warfare crap, learn our REAL history and founding and start to help return to our foundings principles WE ARE SCREWED!

Now...I'd like to apologize to Conservative for taking this tread sideways. To one way of thinking, this does actually apply to the debate over the recall vote. It's being conducted by progressives/socialist/useful idiots who are diluted about not only the role of unions in this country, but the very nature of the kind of government we have and why it was set up as it was.

All that said, I still apologize for my part in taking it off course.

 

[RoadVirus]

With little more than two weeks until Wisconsin's gubernatorial recall election, some Democratic and union officials quietly are expressing fears that they have picked a fight they won't win and that could leave lingering injuries.

Lingering injuries....resembling gushing head wounds. The fallout? Not pretty.

Walker will win. The unions will look like bullies. The state's democratic party will be humiliated. Both the state's DP and unions will also be seen as wasting taxpayer money for the recall. The DNC will say to both: "We told ya so".

 

[American_Jihad]

Republicans claim advantage in Walker recall, as early voting heats up
By Mike Tobin

Published May 24, 2012


Read more: Republicans claim advantage in Walker recall, as early voting heats up | Fox News

 

[freedombecki]

It will be nice when Walker gets voter exoneration for the stellar job he has done of holding the line on expenses and making bureaucrats account for their spending of other taxpayers' money.

 

[kiwiman127]

The decline iof the Middle Class started in the 70's, that's when wage growth for the working class became stagnant and reversed itself.

Year Weekly Real Earnings Comp/Wages Weekly Compensation
(1982-84 dollars) (1982-84 dollars)

1972 $341.83 1.14 $388.01
1975 $314.75 1.16 $366.63
1980 $290.86 1.20 $348.93
1985 $285.34 1.22 $347.10
1990 $271.12 1.21 $328.99
1995 $267.07 1.22 $326.23
2000 $284.79 1.20 $341.49
2005 $284.99 1.24 $352.87
2010 $297.67 1.24 $370.28
2011 $294.78 1.24 $365.77

Will you look at that! In Real Dollars, wages earners are making less than they were in 1972!

Just keep on supporting the demise of democracy will being a shill of plutocracy.

Ok...and first. If you are going to have ANY serious input into a discussion about politics in this country...you need know what political system that is. WE DO NOT HAVE A DEMOCRACY IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA!!!!

We have a representative republic! VERY different things. Democracies don't work..never have, never will...our Republican form of government DOES. As a matter of fact...and since you seem so concerned about what the founders intend with our Constitution...try this. The federal government was only directed to do about a half dozen things by the Constitution and everything else was for the states and we the people. NOT thousands of things, about 6 things and describes exactly how. Things like deliver the mail, defend our borders and the like. Among those things is to provide that the states are GUARANTEED a Republican form of government. NOT a democracy.

So, I wish you guys would stop with that democracy stuff. Until 1913(remember that year for the next post I have quoted below), senators were NOT ELECTED...they were chosen by the peoples representatives who WERE elected in their home state. THAT is how the founders intended it to be. It insured that the state rep AND the senator were accountable to the people back home for what they did in Washington. As a matter of fact, we need to repeal the 17th Amendment as a beginning to take our government back to it's founding!

Now, to you numbers. Just stating the same statistics in numeric form instead of graphic form does not add weight to an argument. Those numbers are simple representations...a symptom of a disease. The numbers don't mean a thing without context.

Trust me, I LIVED through those years. The wife and I were a struggling young couple in those days. Vietnam, cheap Japanese steel, autos, electronics and dozens of other imports from Japan and Twain had more to do with the demise of unions and concentration of wealth away from the middle class back then than some mystical link between unions and the middle class.

Hell, over 80% of Americans have NEVER BEEN IN A UNION...then or now!

No dear boy, the decline only became noticeable then. The policies which have led to the destruction of the middle class were actually implemented way back in the teens. It takes a long time to build an entitlement and helpless mentality.

I have a US Communist Party newspaper from 1932 and it decried the fact that 76% of the nations wealth was controlled by 2% of the population. Shortly thereafter Democrats took over both houses and kept them for 40 continuous years. The Democrats also controlled the presidency for a great percentage of that time as well.

The net result of liberal Democratic rule? ONE percent now controls 90% of the wealth. So who were the liberal Democrats working for? 'Cause it certainly wasn't the middle class. They have raped the middle class.

Exactly so westwall. Some of these folks don't understand that the rhetoric they are regurgitating began in this country with the Fabian Socialist...import from England around 1900. A socialist agenda that was adopted by the FIRST progressive president, Woodrow Wilson. The guy who helped start us down the road to serfdom.

If these jackwagon...useful idiots don't lay of the class warfare crap, learn our REAL history and founding and start to help return to our foundings principles WE ARE SCREWED!

Now...I'd like to apologize to Conservative for taking this tread sideways. To one way of thinking, this does actually apply to the debate over the recall vote. It's being conducted by progressives/socialist/useful idiots who are diluted about not only the role of unions in this country, but the very nature of the kind of government we have and why it was set up as it was.

All that said, I still apologize for my part in taking it off course.

Oh, I know the US is a Republic. I also know that the term democracy comes from the Greek word "dēmokratia", which means "rule of the people", thusly the term "democratic elections" which we have in the US. All of this comes around to my point regarding plutocracy and the funding of candidates from corporate and union entities.

The Supreme Court with their ruling in favor of Citizens United clearly chose to spin the words of the Bill of Right, "the enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people, and reserves all powers not granted to the federal government to the citizenry or States.”

The terms “people” and “citizenry” clearly refer here to living human beings, not to artificial entities such as corporations, labor unions, or political lobbyist.

In my original post to Westwall, I condemned all the money coming to Wisconsin from outstate interests, that being corporate and union interests, thus the attempt to manipulate the election their way. In the case of Wisconsin, a huge majority of the money went to Walker. Nationally, it depends which way the wind blows, but in recent years the Dems have reaped a majority of corporate and union donations.

Now Westwall refused to see or failed to see that my comments (Post 46) refereed to both ideologies as being tools of Big Money and then went off on the unions. Yet the business world has contributed over a trillion dollars to political candidates since 2000, while unions have contributed almost 45 million dollars. (Business-Labor-Ideology Split in PAC & Individual Donations to Candidates and Parties | OpenSecrets)

A trillion dollars is alot of influence for favorable legislation and certainly shrinks our nations unions attempts to strengthen their agenda. And all the Big Money minimizes people.

The chart that posted (that was discounted by ideologues), clearly showed that as the unions weakened, the middle class's share of the National Income has nosedived. As a matter of fact, in the year 2010, the middle class hit a record low regarding their share of the National Income. Go and Google and research, my point it's accurate as hell.

What all this means is the "rule of the people" is becoming a thing of the past. The US has entered the early to mid stages of becoming plutocratic. Big Money trumps "people". It's no secret that our elected leaders (from both parties) in Washington spend more time raising funds from Special Interest than they do investing the time to represent their constituents.

And a "oh yeah". I am not union, there are no members of our family or friends inter-circle that are union. I believe that unions did help strengthen the middle class when the middle class was strong. The unions are almost insignificant as they make up less than 12% of this nations workforce. The Working Class has also become insignificant as indicated by their record low share of the National Income.

I'm not an ideologue, I'm Main Street America, middle class and I am mad as hell at the demise of "the people" as Big Money rules America. I also believe that those people who support this phenomena are the "useful idiots". I guess they don't care about their future or even more importantly, the children's future.

Read this article from the conservative The Economist.
Ever higher society, ever harder to ascend
http://www.economist.com/node/3518560

 

[westwall]

The decline iof the Middle Class started in the 70's, that's when wage growth for the working class became stagnant and reversed itself.

Year Weekly Real Earnings Comp/Wages Weekly Compensation
(1982-84 dollars) (1982-84 dollars)

1972 $341.83 1.14 $388.01
1975 $314.75 1.16 $366.63
1980 $290.86 1.20 $348.93
1985 $285.34 1.22 $347.10
1990 $271.12 1.21 $328.99
1995 $267.07 1.22 $326.23
2000 $284.79 1.20 $341.49
2005 $284.99 1.24 $352.87
2010 $297.67 1.24 $370.28
2011 $294.78 1.24 $365.77

Will you look at that! In Real Dollars, wages earners are making less than they were in 1972!

Just keep on supporting the demise of democracy will being a shill of plutocracy.

Ok...and first. If you are going to have ANY serious input into a discussion about politics in this country...you need know what political system that is. WE DO NOT HAVE A DEMOCRACY IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA!!!!

We have a representative republic! VERY different things. Democracies don't work..never have, never will...our Republican form of government DOES. As a matter of fact...and since you seem so concerned about what the founders intend with our Constitution...try this. The federal government was only directed to do about a half dozen things by the Constitution and everything else was for the states and we the people. NOT thousands of things, about 6 things and describes exactly how. Things like deliver the mail, defend our borders and the like. Among those things is to provide that the states are GUARANTEED a Republican form of government. NOT a democracy.

So, I wish you guys would stop with that democracy stuff. Until 1913(remember that year for the next post I have quoted below), senators were NOT ELECTED...they were chosen by the peoples representatives who WERE elected in their home state. THAT is how the founders intended it to be. It insured that the state rep AND the senator were accountable to the people back home for what they did in Washington. As a matter of fact, we need to repeal the 17th Amendment as a beginning to take our government back to it's founding!

Now, to you numbers. Just stating the same statistics in numeric form instead of graphic form does not add weight to an argument. Those numbers are simple representations...a symptom of a disease. The numbers don't mean a thing without context.

Trust me, I LIVED through those years. The wife and I were a struggling young couple in those days. Vietnam, cheap Japanese steel, autos, electronics and dozens of other imports from Japan and Twain had more to do with the demise of unions and concentration of wealth away from the middle class back then than some mystical link between unions and the middle class.

Hell, over 80% of Americans have NEVER BEEN IN A UNION...then or now!

No dear boy, the decline only became noticeable then. The policies which have led to the destruction of the middle class were actually implemented way back in the teens. It takes a long time to build an entitlement and helpless mentality.

I have a US Communist Party newspaper from 1932 and it decried the fact that 76% of the nations wealth was controlled by 2% of the population. Shortly thereafter Democrats took over both houses and kept them for 40 continuous years. The Democrats also controlled the presidency for a great percentage of that time as well.

The net result of liberal Democratic rule? ONE percent now controls 90% of the wealth. So who were the liberal Democrats working for? 'Cause it certainly wasn't the middle class. They have raped the middle class.

Exactly so westwall. Some of these folks don't understand that the rhetoric they are regurgitating began in this country with the Fabian Socialist...import from England around 1900. A socialist agenda that was adopted by the FIRST progressive president, Woodrow Wilson. The guy who helped start us down the road to serfdom.

If these jackwagon...useful idiots don't lay of the class warfare crap, learn our REAL history and founding and start to help return to our foundings principles WE ARE SCREWED!

Now...I'd like to apologize to Conservative for taking this tread sideways. To one way of thinking, this does actually apply to the debate over the recall vote. It's being conducted by progressives/socialist/useful idiots who are diluted about not only the role of unions in this country, but the very nature of the kind of government we have and why it was set up as it was.

All that said, I still apologize for my part in taking it off course.

Oh, I know the US is a Republic. I also know that the term democracy comes from the Greek word "dēmokratia", which means "rule of the people", thusly the term "democratic elections" which we have in the US. All of this comes around to my point regarding plutocracy and the funding of candidates from corporate and union entities.

The Supreme Court with their ruling in favor of Citizens United clearly chose to spin the words of the Bill of Right, "the enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people, and reserves all powers not granted to the federal government to the citizenry or States.”

The terms “people” and “citizenry” clearly refer here to living human beings, not to artificial entities such as corporations, labor unions, or political lobbyist.

In my original post to Westwall, I condemned all the money coming to Wisconsin from outstate interests, that being corporate and union interests, thus the attempt to manipulate the election their way. In the case of Wisconsin, a huge majority of the money went to Walker. Nationally, it depends which way the wind blows, but in recent years the Dems have reaped a majority of corporate and union donations.

Now Westwall refused to see or failed to see that my comments (Post 46) refereed to both ideologies as being tools of Big Money and then went off on the unions. Yet the business world has contributed over a trillion dollars to political candidates since 2000, while unions have contributed almost 45 million dollars. (Business-Labor-Ideology Split in PAC & Individual Donations to Candidates and Parties | OpenSecrets)

A trillion dollars is alot of influence for favorable legislation and certainly shrinks our nations unions attempts to strengthen their agenda. And all the Big Money minimizes people.

The chart that posted (that was discounted by ideologues), clearly showed that as the unions weakened, the middle class's share of the National Income has nosedived. As a matter of fact, in the year 2010, the middle class hit a record low regarding their share of the National Income. Go and Google and research, my point it's accurate as hell.

What all this means is the "rule of the people" is becoming a thing of the past. The US has entered the early to mid stages of becoming plutocratic. Big Money trumps "people". It's no secret that our elected leaders (from both parties) in Washington spend more time raising funds from Special Interest than they do investing the time to represent their constituents.

And a "oh yeah". I am not union, there are no members of our family or friends inter-circle that are union. I believe that unions did help strengthen the middle class when the middle class was strong. The unions are almost insignificant as they make up less than 12% of this nations workforce. The Working Class has also become insignificant as indicated by their record low share of the National Income.

I'm not an ideologue, I'm Main Street America, middle class and I am mad as hell at the demise of "the people" as Big Money rules America. I also believe that those people who support this phenomena are the "useful idiots". I guess they don't care about their future or even more importantly, the children's future.

Read this article from the conservative The Economist.
Ever higher society, ever harder to ascend
Meritocracy in America: Ever higher society, ever harder to ascend | The Economist

I ignored nothing. You failed to state that both sides were equally guilty, something I go to great pains to make clear. As far as influence goes you are correct but that started a very, very long time ago.

The United States of America hasn't been a free market society for decades. The corruption of the political process began around the year 1900 in earnest. there were attempts to corrupt the process earlier, but the first real coordinated work began then.

 

[SniperFire]

This is the death rattle of public unions.

The working man is going to get the public union monkey off his back.

 

[kiwiman127]

Ok...and first. If you are going to have ANY serious input into a discussion about politics in this country...you need know what political system that is. WE DO NOT HAVE A DEMOCRACY IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA!!!!

We have a representative republic! VERY different things. Democracies don't work..never have, never will...our Republican form of government DOES. As a matter of fact...and since you seem so concerned about what the founders intend with our Constitution...try this. The federal government was only directed to do about a half dozen things by the Constitution and everything else was for the states and we the people. NOT thousands of things, about 6 things and describes exactly how. Things like deliver the mail, defend our borders and the like. Among those things is to provide that the states are GUARANTEED a Republican form of government. NOT a democracy.

So, I wish you guys would stop with that democracy stuff. Until 1913(remember that year for the next post I have quoted below), senators were NOT ELECTED...they were chosen by the peoples representatives who WERE elected in their home state. THAT is how the founders intended it to be. It insured that the state rep AND the senator were accountable to the people back home for what they did in Washington. As a matter of fact, we need to repeal the 17th Amendment as a beginning to take our government back to it's founding!

Now, to you numbers. Just stating the same statistics in numeric form instead of graphic form does not add weight to an argument. Those numbers are simple representations...a symptom of a disease. The numbers don't mean a thing without context.

Trust me, I LIVED through those years. The wife and I were a struggling young couple in those days. Vietnam, cheap Japanese steel, autos, electronics and dozens of other imports from Japan and Twain had more to do with the demise of unions and concentration of wealth away from the middle class back then than some mystical link between unions and the middle class.

Hell, over 80% of Americans have NEVER BEEN IN A UNION...then or now!



Exactly so westwall. Some of these folks don't understand that the rhetoric they are regurgitating began in this country with the Fabian Socialist...import from England around 1900. A socialist agenda that was adopted by the FIRST progressive president, Woodrow Wilson. The guy who helped start us down the road to serfdom.

If these jackwagon...useful idiots don't lay of the class warfare crap, learn our REAL history and founding and start to help return to our foundings principles WE ARE SCREWED!

Now...I'd like to apologize to Conservative for taking this tread sideways. To one way of thinking, this does actually apply to the debate over the recall vote. It's being conducted by progressives/socialist/useful idiots who are diluted about not only the role of unions in this country, but the very nature of the kind of government we have and why it was set up as it was.

All that said, I still apologize for my part in taking it off course.

Oh, I know the US is a Republic. I also know that the term democracy comes from the Greek word "dēmokratia", which means "rule of the people", thusly the term "democratic elections" which we have in the US. All of this comes around to my point regarding plutocracy and the funding of candidates from corporate and union entities.

The Supreme Court with their ruling in favor of Citizens United clearly chose to spin the words of the Bill of Right, "the enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people, and reserves all powers not granted to the federal government to the citizenry or States.”

The terms “people” and “citizenry” clearly refer here to living human beings, not to artificial entities such as corporations, labor unions, or political lobbyist.

In my original post to Westwall, I condemned all the money coming to Wisconsin from outstate interests, that being corporate and union interests, thus the attempt to manipulate the election their way. In the case of Wisconsin, a huge majority of the money went to Walker. Nationally, it depends which way the wind blows, but in recent years the Dems have reaped a majority of corporate and union donations.

Now Westwall refused to see or failed to see that my comments (Post 46) refereed to both ideologies as being tools of Big Money and then went off on the unions. Yet the business world has contributed over a trillion dollars to political candidates since 2000, while unions have contributed almost 45 million dollars. (Business-Labor-Ideology Split in PAC & Individual Donations to Candidates and Parties | OpenSecrets)

A trillion dollars is alot of influence for favorable legislation and certainly shrinks our nations unions attempts to strengthen their agenda. And all the Big Money minimizes people.

The chart that posted (that was discounted by ideologues), clearly showed that as the unions weakened, the middle class's share of the National Income has nosedived. As a matter of fact, in the year 2010, the middle class hit a record low regarding their share of the National Income. Go and Google and research, my point it's accurate as hell.

What all this means is the "rule of the people" is becoming a thing of the past. The US has entered the early to mid stages of becoming plutocratic. Big Money trumps "people". It's no secret that our elected leaders (from both parties) in Washington spend more time raising funds from Special Interest than they do investing the time to represent their constituents.

And a "oh yeah". I am not union, there are no members of our family or friends inter-circle that are union. I believe that unions did help strengthen the middle class when the middle class was strong. The unions are almost insignificant as they make up less than 12% of this nations workforce. The Working Class has also become insignificant as indicated by their record low share of the National Income.

I'm not an ideologue, I'm Main Street America, middle class and I am mad as hell at the demise of "the people" as Big Money rules America. I also believe that those people who support this phenomena are the "useful idiots". I guess they don't care about their future or even more importantly, the children's future.

Read this article from the conservative The Economist.
Ever higher society, ever harder to ascend
Meritocracy in America: Ever higher society, ever harder to ascend | The Economist

I ignored nothing. You failed to state that both sides were equally guilty, something I go to great pains to make clear. As far as influence goes you are correct but that started a very, very long time ago.

The United States of America hasn't been a free market society for decades. The corruption of the political process began around the year 1900 in earnest. there were attempts to corrupt the process earlier, but the first real coordinated work began then.

Here's my post,,again.

Considering that almost 70% of Walker's War Chest came from out of state is troubling. A perfect sign of plutocracy and with plutocracy there is no democracy.
I don't care who benefits from Citizens United. I know who doesn't benefit, your average American who wants a voice in how this country is run. Yeah, I know that part doesn't matter to ideological goose-steppers, you people certainly put your lame ass ideologies over your own country. Because of Citizens United, our country continues on it's downwards trend and into the direction the Founding Fathers warned against.

Ideologies is plural for ideology, that is what you seemed to miss.