Democrats are wrong with their tax argument

[NYcarbineer]

My only bone of contention is you dont run on lowering taxes or not raising them and then somehow sneak in the backdoor an increase on the middle class. So if a ryan type budget is passed and taxes are kept at bay thats fine. But then somehow middle class earners end up paying more. I dont see the rich in this country suffering. The war in this country is clearly on those in the middle. It has been for many many years. Is it part of a systematic plan to squeeze this class out? I would hope not.

That's the main problem with the Romney and Ryan plans. While they say there are tax cuts across the board they say they will pay for them by closing loopholes. Only they are vague about the loopholes they are going to close. Many of the middle class depend on these loopholes for added income. If some like the child credit and morgtage interest are closed it is simply a tax increase on the middle class.

What will happen in a Romney presidency is, the tax cuts will pass, because they're easy to pass; the only loopholes that will get closed are the ones that don't have a powerful enough lobby working for them to keep them in place.

When the big donors, who got Romney elected, start telling Romney which loopholes they don't want closed,

Romney will listen. That's how politics works.

 

[Black_Label]

So where does that leave us? Well we republicans have already realized the reality. There is only so much we can do in terms of increasing revenue. We realize that we have to really attack the spending. The fact is we know raising taxes does not equal increased revenue. In fact increased taxes on investments usually will mean decreased economic activity and therefore decreased revenue. Look at now with Obama and you should already know this is true. Heck there is just decreased economic activity now among the investors just because of fear and not even realized yet. So you Democrats can keep living in fantasy land or you can come down to reality and start having a real conversation with us republicans about what we can REALLY do.

The ones living in a fantasy land are you right wingers. Your propaganda masters and politicians pretend to be for fiscal responsibility, but in reality they are for the complete opposite.
Right wing "trickle down" fiscal policies have never worked, ever! Slashing revenues while spending like lunatics is what the GOP are all about, and what led us into the fiscal disaster in the first place.

Here's a fun fact, do you know when the last time a republican president balanced the budget?

We all know it's not W.

Maybe Bush 1? Nope.

Reagan is the 2nd coming of christ to the hard right, of course he would have!,...Try again.

You would have to go all the way back to Nixon.

Now take a look at Clinton which not only balanced the budget, but gave us the biggest surplus in US history. This is a perfect example of what democratic fiscal plans are all about and what makes them so successful; Fair tax rates, and controlled spending.

It doesn't take a genius to figure out that GOP "Slash revenues and spend like lunatics" fiscal plans are complete failures, but democratic "fair tax rates and controlled spending" plans are wildly successful.

Well, and Clinton did that all by himself, oh wait he had REPUBLICAN majorities on the house and senate that made him sign bills like welfare reform....

Quit distorting the record, you're dealing with people that follow this stuff not the kids in schools you like to indoctrinate

False, the main reason for Clinton's massive surplus was his tax plan that passed when the dems had both houses and without a single GOP vote.

I know you right wing trolls can't, or won't face the truth that the GOP does not give a damn about fiscal sanity in any way, shape, or form.

 

[DiamondDave]

My only bone of contention is you dont run on lowering taxes or not raising them and then somehow sneak in the backdoor an increase on the middle class. So if a ryan type budget is passed and taxes are kept at bay thats fine. But then somehow middle class earners end up paying more. I dont see the rich in this country suffering. The war in this country is clearly on those in the middle. It has been for many many years. Is it part of a systematic plan to squeeze this class out? I would hope not.

That's the main problem with the Romney and Ryan plans. While they say there are tax cuts across the board they say they will pay for them by closing loopholes. Only they are vague about the loopholes they are going to close. Many of the middle class depend on these loopholes for added income. If some like the child credit and morgtage interest are closed it is simply a tax increase on the middle class.

What will happen in a Romney presidency is, the tax cuts will pass, because they're easy to pass; the only loopholes that will get closed are the ones that don't have a powerful enough lobby working for them to keep them in place.

When the big donors, who got Romney elected, start telling Romney which loopholes they don't want closed,

Romney will listen. That's how politics works.

And this is where I agree with you (in this rare instance)... and why I am not a Romney supporter... I want a candidate that has the balls to put it out there specifically with the gumption to show that either they are simplifying to the fact that all loopholes are gone, or show why there is a loophole and then try and justify it (which to me there is no justification when striving for equal treatment)....

 

[DiamondDave]

The ones living in a fantasy land are you right wingers. Your propaganda masters and politicians pretend to be for fiscal responsibility, but in reality they are for the complete opposite.
Right wing "trickle down" fiscal policies have never worked, ever! Slashing revenues while spending like lunatics is what the GOP are all about, and what led us into the fiscal disaster in the first place.

Here's a fun fact, do you know when the last time a republican president balanced the budget?

We all know it's not W.

Maybe Bush 1? Nope.

Reagan is the 2nd coming of christ to the hard right, of course he would have!,...Try again.

You would have to go all the way back to Nixon.

Now take a look at Clinton which not only balanced the budget, but gave us the biggest surplus in US history. This is a perfect example of what democratic fiscal plans are all about and what makes them so successful; Fair tax rates, and controlled spending.

It doesn't take a genius to figure out that GOP "Slash revenues and spend like lunatics" fiscal plans are complete failures, but democratic "fair tax rates and controlled spending" plans are wildly successful.

Well, and Clinton did that all by himself, oh wait he had REPUBLICAN majorities on the house and senate that made him sign bills like welfare reform....

Quit distorting the record, you're dealing with people that follow this stuff not the kids in schools you like to indoctrinate

False, the main reason for Clinton's massive surplus was his tax plan that passed when the dems had both houses and without a single GOP vote.

I know you right wing trolls can't, or won't face the truth that the GOP does not give a damn about fiscal sanity in any way, shape, or form.

Lie again.. THERE WAS NO MASSIVE SURPLUS

 

[Black_Label]

Well, and Clinton did that all by himself, oh wait he had REPUBLICAN majorities on the house and senate that made him sign bills like welfare reform....

Quit distorting the record, you're dealing with people that follow this stuff not the kids in schools you like to indoctrinate

False, the main reason for Clinton's massive surplus was his tax plan that passed when the dems had both houses and without a single GOP vote.

I know you right wing trolls can't, or won't face the truth that the GOP does not give a damn about fiscal sanity in any way, shape, or form.

Lie again.. THERE WAS NO MASSIVE SURPLUS

Holy hell are you right wingers dumb

 

[DiamondDave]

False, the main reason for Clinton's massive surplus was his tax plan that passed when the dems had both houses and without a single GOP vote.

I know you right wing trolls can't, or won't face the truth that the GOP does not give a damn about fiscal sanity in any way, shape, or form.

Lie again.. THERE WAS NO MASSIVE SURPLUS

Holy hell are you right wingers dumb

We have NOT had a surplus since 1957.... Clinton and the congress CUT the amount of deficit, but it never made it to the surplus area... debt increased every year... in Clinton's BEST year we still had 17+ billion in deficit

I can write a budget too and say that I am in the black, but when I go to my mom and borrow an extra 100K to make up for things I wanted to spend on and keep it off the budget, it does not mean I truly had a surplus...

 

[miami_thomas]

My only bone of contention is you dont run on lowering taxes or not raising them and then somehow sneak in the backdoor an increase on the middle class. So if a ryan type budget is passed and taxes are kept at bay thats fine. But then somehow middle class earners end up paying more. I dont see the rich in this country suffering. The war in this country is clearly on those in the middle. It has been for many many years. Is it part of a systematic plan to squeeze this class out? I would hope not.

Look at the records. Their taxes as percent of income has gone down consistantly over the last 50 years. The rich on the other hand has consistantly gone up. What war are you talking about? The fake war that the Democrats are trying to make up?

 

[miami_thomas]

Conservatives want taxes extremely low, but taxes that low won't pay the bills. So then, conservatives say,

well let's cut all the government spending that we conservatives don't like, and then those low taxes will pay the bills.

The problem with conservatives on this subject is simple - they live in a fantasy world where they think all the nation's fiscal problems are going to be fixed with the implementation of a set of policies that are 100% pro-conservative,

all gain no pain, from the conservative point of view.

Of course they do and Democrats want them extremely high. The Republicans want spending extremely low and Democrats want spending extremely high. Thing should meet in the middle only problem is things have been consistently meeting on the side of the Democrats with the exception of the Clinton years when they managed to meet in the middle. Now we have to move more to the Republican side to get back near to the middle.

 

[miami_thomas]

So where does that leave us? Well we republicans have already realized the reality. There is only so much we can do in terms of increasing revenue. We realize that we have to really attack the spending. The fact is we know raising taxes does not equal increased revenue. In fact increased taxes on investments usually will mean decreased economic activity and therefore decreased revenue. Look at now with Obama and you should already know this is true. Heck there is just decreased economic activity now among the investors just because of fear and not even realized yet. So you Democrats can keep living in fantasy land or you can come down to reality and start having a real conversation with us republicans about what we can REALLY do.

The ones living in a fantasy land are you right wingers. Your propaganda masters and politicians pretend to be for fiscal responsibility, but in reality they are for the complete opposite.
Right wing "trickle down" fiscal policies have never worked, ever! Slashing revenues while spending like lunatics is what the GOP are all about, and what led us into the fiscal disaster in the first place.

Here's a fun fact, do you know when the last time a republican president balanced the budget?

We all know it's not W.

Maybe Bush 1? Nope.

Reagan is the 2nd coming of christ to the hard right, of course he would have!,...Try again.

You would have to go all the way back to Nixon.

Now take a look at Clinton which not only balanced the budget, but gave us the biggest surplus in US history. This is a perfect example of what democratic fiscal plans are all about and what makes them so successful; Fair tax rates, and controlled spending.

It doesn't take a genius to figure out that GOP "Slash revenues and spend like lunatics" fiscal plans are complete failures, but democratic "fair tax rates and controlled spending" plans are wildly successful.

To be actually balanced would mean including all expenses even the interest on the debt. The last time that happened was under Dwight D. Eisenhower. Even under Clinton’s last year when it was almost balanced the debt still grew by 23 billion dollars. So are we talking real balance or fictional balance? I’m not saying it is only the Democrats problem it is the Republicans problem as well. For far too long they have allowed the Democrats to win the argument and keep things on their side. Sure we won one during Clinton but the Republicans paid a huge price for that win. Now Democrats like to brag that it was their victory. Last the trickle down does and has worked only you only have denial that it worked. You cannot just look at the US alone you have to compare it with the rest of the world.

 

[Moonglow]

The fact is we always attack the rich. It works well in elections to “Attack the rich guy” simply because they are small in numbers. So if you want to win the election it is best to try and get the lower classes on your side because they are more in numbers and therefore more in votes. Problem with this strategy is that most politicians know you cannot get all you need from just the rich because they are small in numbers and have more options. I say most because the idiots in California still have not figured that out. You would think they would look at Detroit and realize but not yet.

Could they attack them a little more maybe? But the question is how much more and how you can effectively do so. The problem is the rich don’t get their money the same as most everyone else. They tend to get large portion of their money from some type of investment. So it makes it difficult to tax the wealthy since almost half of their money made simply is not income. The argument is to just start taxing capital gains, interest, and dividends at a higher rate which is currently at 15%. There is a problem with this strategy and that is that those hit everyone not just the super rich. The upper say 5% can afford to put their money somewhere and wait out the storm. In other words don’t make money until the tax rate goes back down. This will have a huge impact on the economy as you lose that activity.

Then there is the impact on those of us that don’t make enough money to sit on it. We will suddenly be hit in our 401k by the decreased activity in the market. We will be hit when we sell our house. The seniors will especially be hit both in the stock market and in their returns. So this strategy sounds great in political speak but in terms of reality not so great. Then there is the idea like France has of just increasing their income taxes up to 75%. But this is just suicide as well because you can only tax income really if they are US citizens. They will bail on this country in a heartbeat just like they are in France.

So where does that leave us? Well we republicans have already realized the reality. There is only so much we can do in terms of increasing revenue. We realize that we have to really attack the spending. The fact is we know raising taxes does not equal increased revenue. In fact increased taxes on investments usually will mean decreased economic activity and therefore decreased revenue. Look at now with Obama and you should already know this is true. Heck there is just decreased economic activity now among the investors just because of fear and not even realized yet. So you Democrats can keep living in fantasy land or you can come down to reality and start having a real conversation with us republicans about what we can REALLY do.

You have it wrong, many of us see the extravagant tax writeoff the rich enjoy and do not think it fair. The tax increase you spout about is nothing more than what Reagan did with the tax code and eleminated several tax write off that were frivolous.

 

[miami_thomas]

"That's the main problem with the Romney and Ryan plans. While they say there are tax cuts across the board they say they will pay for them by closing loopholes. Only they are vague about the loopholes they are going to close. Many of the middle class depend on these loopholes for added income. If some like the child credit and morgtage interest are closed it is simply a tax increase on the middle class. "

I would hope they will tell exactly which ones they will close before the election. Someone making $45,000 will get the shaft while others at the top laugh all the way to the bank. This cannot be justified in any way shape or form except by those in the 1 percent.

Just about all tax brackets pay the same percentage among the top 50%. That rate is around 21 percent. The fact is when the economy is bad like now the number of those about 50% drop dramatically. As far as the other half they pay next to nothing. If we raised taxes on every person in the US 4 dollars a year we would pretty much close the deficit. But you guys would rather drop it all on the super rich and then they would have to pay over twice as much as they pay now. You call that equality? I call it class warfare and the lower classes are the ones on the offensive.

 

[miami_thomas]

My only bone of contention is you dont run on lowering taxes or not raising them and then somehow sneak in the backdoor an increase on the middle class. So if a ryan type budget is passed and taxes are kept at bay thats fine. But then somehow middle class earners end up paying more. I dont see the rich in this country suffering. The war in this country is clearly on those in the middle. It has been for many many years. Is it part of a systematic plan to squeeze this class out? I would hope not.

That's the main problem with the Romney and Ryan plans. While they say there are tax cuts across the board they say they will pay for them by closing loopholes. Only they are vague about the loopholes they are going to close. Many of the middle class depend on these loopholes for added income. If some like the child credit and morgtage interest are closed it is simply a tax increase on the middle class.

What will happen in a Romney presidency is, the tax cuts will pass, because they're easy to pass; the only loopholes that will get closed are the ones that don't have a powerful enough lobby working for them to keep them in place.

When the big donors, who got Romney elected, start telling Romney which loopholes they don't want closed,

Romney will listen. That's how politics works.

So we have to hold them accountable until they do the right thing. Your argument is nothing but that an argument about what may happen. Besides that fact we are arguing philosophies between Republican and Democrat..

 

[miami_thomas]

False, the main reason for Clinton's massive surplus was his tax plan that passed when the dems had both houses and without a single GOP vote.

I know you right wing trolls can't, or won't face the truth that the GOP does not give a damn about fiscal sanity in any way, shape, or form.

Lie again.. THERE WAS NO MASSIVE SURPLUS

Holy hell are you right wingers dumb

That surplus was simply in the budget. That does not include all Federal expenses. Even when the budget showed a surplus the debt still grew all four of those years because of interest on the debt. Not to mention the fact that it did not include the unfunded liabilities but that is another topic.

 

[Wry Catcher]

The fact is we always attack the rich. It works well in elections to “Attack the rich guy” simply because they are small in numbers. So if you want to win the election it is best to try and get the lower classes on your side because they are more in numbers and therefore more in votes. Problem with this strategy is that most politicians know you cannot get all you need from just the rich because they are small in numbers and have more options. I say most because the idiots in California still have not figured that out. You would think they would look at Detroit and realize but not yet.

If you hope to get serious feedback I suggest you drop the hyperbole and reconsider the use of adjectives. The greater the spread between the very very wealthy and the "lower classes", the more attacks on middle class working men and women and collective bargining the less democratic

Democracy | Define Democracy at Dictionary.com)

we become.(

The "stupid" people in California? A perfect example of ignorance and bigotry, unabashed.

Could they attack them a little more maybe? But the question is how much more and how you can effectively do so. The problem is the rich don’t get their money the same as most everyone else. (True, most of us labor for our wealth, the very wealthy have generally inherited theirs or used other peoples money. The exception of course are some very talented people, innovators (Jobs, Gates,etc., athletes and actors, for example) as we can see They tend to get large portion of their money from some type of investment. So it makes it difficult to tax the wealthy since almost half of their money made simply is not income. The argument is to just start taxing capital gains, interest, and dividends at a higher rate which is currently at 15%. There is a problem with this strategy and that is that those hit everyone not just the super rich. The upper say 5% can afford to put their money somewhere and wait out the storm. In other words don’t make money until the tax rate goes back down. This will have a huge impact on the economy as you lose that activity.

Targeted tax adjustments for those with an AGI under $250,000 could aid the not so wealthy.

Then there is the impact on those of us that don’t make enough money to sit on it. We will suddenly be hit in our 401k by the decreased activity in the market. We will be hit when we sell our house. The seniors will especially be hit both in the stock market and in their returns. So this strategy sounds great in political speak but in terms of reality not so great. Then there is the idea like France has of just increasing their income taxes up to 75%. But this is just suicide as well because you can only tax income really if they are US citizens. They will bail on this country in a heartbeat just like they are in France.

I suggest you purchase SimCity and play around with taxes.

So where does that leave us? Well we republicans have already realized the reality. There is only so much we can do in terms of increasing revenue. We realize that we have to really attack the spending. The fact is we know raising taxes does not equal increased revenue. In fact increased taxes on investments usually will mean decreased economic activity and therefore decreased revenue. Look at now with Obama and you should already know this is true. Heck there is just decreased economic activity now among the investors just because of fear and not even realized yet. So you Democrats can keep living in fantasy land or you can come down to reality and start having a real conversation with us republicans about what we can REALLY do.

I've chose purple because you have consumed an awful lot of kool-ade.

In short, it seems you believe cutting taxes will reduce the deficit because tax cuts will increase economic activity which will trickle down to the masses; cutting regulations will increase revenue to stockholders who will reinvest their 'earnings', further stimulating the economy; and, by putting roadblocks (voter ID laws) to voting the R's will be the majority in the Congress, retake the White House and during 2013 and beyond make sure the Supreme Court becomes even more conservative and socially conservative.

You really should switch to water (or even booze). You acknowledge not being rich, yet everything you support, or so it seems, will move us further away from democracy and closer to an Oligarchy where the rich, in effect, will write the laws (which they mostly do already) and into a Brave New World.

 

[SniperFire]

What taxes has Obama raised? We have had Tax Cuts in place for nearly 10 years and our economy has gone to shit.

For starters, President Obama raised the federal excise tax on tobacco by 62 cents within three weeks of his inauguration. If you were wondering why your personal favorite pack of cigarettes is now upwards of $7, well, now you know why. I vaguely remember the president promising that he would “never raise taxes” on those individuals making less than the $250,000 threshold. Ergo, I suppose only those making more than $200,000 annually smoke cigarettes anyways. The purpose of this tax is obviously to discourage people from smoking. It should also be noted that the revenue generated from this tax is used to fund children’s insurance programs, so I guess this is the silver lining of the tax increase. Obama also signed into law a ten percent excise tax on indoor tanning services. Fortunately, this tax is very limited in regards to how many people it actually affects.

The Obama Administration increased corporate taxes by eliminating several deductions that international companies use to reduce their tax liability. This inevitably raises the cost of doing business for these companies.

As part of the healthcare transformation, Obama approved an annual fee be imposed on manufacturers of brand-name drugs to help generate revenue for his new healthcare plans. Barack Obama also has several impending tax increases for his landmark legislation Obamacare, most of which are strategically slated to take place after the November elections. There are about 20 tax increases in all.

Raising taxes directly has always been an unpopular endeavor, regardless of which party the president is affiliated with. This president hasn’t accomplished much in the form of direct taxes, but he has gone full-on Marxist with the indirect taxes. His policies, mostly in accordance with the Environmental Protection Agency, have skyrocketed the costs of doing business. On the day Obama took office, gas prices were averaged around $1.77 a gallon. Today as I write this, the local station here in Texas has regular gasoline for $3.49 a gallon. By this measure, it costs me an extra $1.72 a gallon to drive the same route today than it did just three years ago. For someone that fills up a twenty-gallon gas tank once a week, this increase costs an extra $140 a month. If this isn’t a tax increase, albeit a hidden one, then I don’t know what is. Increasing travel costs make everything more expensive. Let’s also not forget that our electricity prices are skyrocketing (Obama’s words, not mine) due to the destructive cap and trade program.

Food prices have also gone up substantially. In the first part of last year, the Labor Department stated that food prices soared 3.9% in a single month. It was the biggest increase in over 36 years. Since then, we have continued to experience record levels of food price increases. Perhaps this might explain why 1 in every 7 Americans is now on food stamps. This president’s policies have made affording food a monumental task. In addition to food and gas, we are experiencing a myriad of other hidden taxes. Our home values have tanked by 13%, tuition costs are up 25%, and our health insurance costs have gone up by a staggering 23%.

While the Obama Administration has been prevented from realizing many of their direct tax proposals, they have succeeded in imposing hidden taxes on the American people by increasing the prices of things we buy. Energy prices are up, food prices keep going up, and we pay almost twice as much at the pump than when Obama first took office. In the aggregate, his policies have been an economic disaster which have substantially increased the cost of living for each and every American.

Obama, Bush, Clinton, ....etc have no control over the price of gas. Gas prices are set on the world market. Cigarette tax? Don't smoke=no tax. Food prices can go up when the price of gas goes up. The health care crap is debatable.

Don't like gas taxes? Don't drive.

So much for your stupid argument.

 

[miami_thomas]

You have it wrong, many of us see the extravagant tax writeoff the rich enjoy and do not think it fair. The tax increase you spout about is nothing more than what Reagan did with the tax code and eleminated several tax write off that were frivolous.

Not sure where you are proving wrong here.

 

[kwc57]

Conservatives want taxes extremely low, but taxes that low won't pay the bills. So then, conservatives say,

well let's cut all the government spending that we conservatives don't like, and then those low taxes will pay the bills.

The problem with conservatives on this subject is simple - they live in a fantasy world where they think all the nation's fiscal problems are going to be fixed with the implementation of a set of policies that are 100% pro-conservative,

all gain no pain, from the conservative point of view.

Liberals - It's FUN spending other people's money the way we think it should be spent! Let's take more of it!

 

[miami_thomas]

The fact is we always attack the rich. It works well in elections to “Attack the rich guy” simply because they are small in numbers. So if you want to win the election it is best to try and get the lower classes on your side because they are more in numbers and therefore more in votes. Problem with this strategy is that most politicians know you cannot get all you need from just the rich because they are small in numbers and have more options. I say most because the idiots in California still have not figured that out. You would think they would look at Detroit and realize but not yet.

If you hope to get serious feedback I suggest you drop the hyperbole and reconsider the use of adjectives. The greater the spread between the very very wealthy and the "lower classes", the more attacks on middle class working men and women and collective bargining the less democratic

Democracy | Define Democracy at Dictionary.com)

we become.(

The "stupid" people in California? A perfect example of ignorance and bigotry, unabashed.

Could they attack them a little more maybe? But the question is how much more and how you can effectively do so. The problem is the rich don’t get their money the same as most everyone else. (True, most of us labor for our wealth, the very wealthy have generally inherited theirs or used other peoples money. The exception of course are some very talented people, innovators (Jobs, Gates,etc., athletes and actors, for example) as we can see They tend to get large portion of their money from some type of investment. So it makes it difficult to tax the wealthy since almost half of their money made simply is not income. The argument is to just start taxing capital gains, interest, and dividends at a higher rate which is currently at 15%. There is a problem with this strategy and that is that those hit everyone not just the super rich. The upper say 5% can afford to put their money somewhere and wait out the storm. In other words don’t make money until the tax rate goes back down. This will have a huge impact on the economy as you lose that activity.

Targeted tax adjustments for those with an AGI under $250,000 could aid the not so wealthy.

Then there is the impact on those of us that don’t make enough money to sit on it. We will suddenly be hit in our 401k by the decreased activity in the market. We will be hit when we sell our house. The seniors will especially be hit both in the stock market and in their returns. So this strategy sounds great in political speak but in terms of reality not so great. Then there is the idea like France has of just increasing their income taxes up to 75%. But this is just suicide as well because you can only tax income really if they are US citizens. They will bail on this country in a heartbeat just like they are in France.

I suggest you purchase SimCity and play around with taxes.

So where does that leave us? Well we republicans have already realized the reality. There is only so much we can do in terms of increasing revenue. We realize that we have to really attack the spending. The fact is we know raising taxes does not equal increased revenue. In fact increased taxes on investments usually will mean decreased economic activity and therefore decreased revenue. Look at now with Obama and you should already know this is true. Heck there is just decreased economic activity now among the investors just because of fear and not even realized yet. So you Democrats can keep living in fantasy land or you can come down to reality and start having a real conversation with us republicans about what we can REALLY do.

I've chose purple because you have consumed an awful lot of kool-ade.

In short, it seems you believe cutting taxes will reduce the deficit because tax cuts will increase economic activity which will trickle down to the masses; cutting regulations will increase revenue to stockholders who will reinvest their 'earnings', further stimulating the economy; and, by putting roadblocks (voter ID laws) to voting the R's will be the majority in the Congress, retake the White House and during 2013 and beyond make sure the Supreme Court becomes even more conservative and socially conservative.

You really should switch to water (or even booze). You acknowledge not being rich, yet everything you support, or so it seems, will move us further away from democracy and closer to an Oligarchy where the rich, in effect, will write the laws (which they mostly do already) and into a Brave New World.

You Democrats already act like we already have Oligarchy. I think when you use SIM CITY as your economic proven method all your credibility is out the door. That is the biggest problem is people thing things are fixed. Raise tax and raise revenue. Things are not that simple and the economy has many moving parts. Change one affect the rest.

 

[kwc57]

So where does that leave us? Well we republicans have already realized the reality. There is only so much we can do in terms of increasing revenue. We realize that we have to really attack the spending. The fact is we know raising taxes does not equal increased revenue. In fact increased taxes on investments usually will mean decreased economic activity and therefore decreased revenue. Look at now with Obama and you should already know this is true. Heck there is just decreased economic activity now among the investors just because of fear and not even realized yet. So you Democrats can keep living in fantasy land or you can come down to reality and start having a real conversation with us republicans about what we can REALLY do.

The ones living in a fantasy land are you right wingers. Your propaganda masters and politicians pretend to be for fiscal responsibility, but in reality they are for the complete opposite.
Right wing "trickle down" fiscal policies have never worked, ever! Slashing revenues while spending like lunatics is what the GOP are all about, and what led us into the fiscal disaster in the first place.

Here's a fun fact, do you know when the last time a republican president balanced the budget?

We all know it's not W.

Maybe Bush 1? Nope.

Reagan is the 2nd coming of christ to the hard right, of course he would have!,...Try again.

You would have to go all the way back to Nixon.

Now take a look at Clinton which not only balanced the budget, but gave us the biggest surplus in US history. This is a perfect example of what democratic fiscal plans are all about and what makes them so successful; Fair tax rates, and controlled spending.

It doesn't take a genius to figure out that GOP "Slash revenues and spend like lunatics" fiscal plans are complete failures, but democratic "fair tax rates and controlled spending" plans are wildly successful.

Remind us again when Reid allowed a vote on a budget and Obama signed it over the last 3.5 years. I seemed to have missed hearing about it on the news. It would appear that today's Democrats have no stomach for budgets, just increased taxes and increased spending.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Conservatives want taxes extremely low, but taxes that low won't pay the bills. So then, conservatives say,

well let's cut all the government spending that we conservatives don't like, and then those low taxes will pay the bills.

The problem with conservatives on this subject is simple - they live in a fantasy world where they think all the nation's fiscal problems are going to be fixed with the implementation of a set of policies that are 100% pro-conservative,

all gain no pain, from the conservative point of view.

Liberals - It's FUN spending other people's money the way we think it should be spent! Let's take more of it!

Conservatives - It's FUN using the labor of others and FUNNER to fire them when we cut their pay, their benefits and make them work overtime without compensating them.

Gee, writing idiotgrams is simple, actually thinking is hard work (try it sometime kwc)