Democrats are wrong with their tax argument

Discussion in 'Politics' started by miami_thomas, Aug 14, 2012.

  1. miami_thomas
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    miami_thomas VIP Member

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    The fact is we always attack the rich. It works well in elections to “Attack the rich guy” simply because they are small in numbers. So if you want to win the election it is best to try and get the lower classes on your side because they are more in numbers and therefore more in votes. Problem with this strategy is that most politicians know you cannot get all you need from just the rich because they are small in numbers and have more options. I say most because the idiots in California still have not figured that out. You would think they would look at Detroit and realize but not yet.

    Could they attack them a little more maybe? But the question is how much more and how you can effectively do so. The problem is the rich don’t get their money the same as most everyone else. They tend to get large portion of their money from some type of investment. So it makes it difficult to tax the wealthy since almost half of their money made simply is not income. The argument is to just start taxing capital gains, interest, and dividends at a higher rate which is currently at 15%. There is a problem with this strategy and that is that those hit everyone not just the super rich. The upper say 5% can afford to put their money somewhere and wait out the storm. In other words don’t make money until the tax rate goes back down. This will have a huge impact on the economy as you lose that activity.

    Then there is the impact on those of us that don’t make enough money to sit on it. We will suddenly be hit in our 401k by the decreased activity in the market. We will be hit when we sell our house. The seniors will especially be hit both in the stock market and in their returns. So this strategy sounds great in political speak but in terms of reality not so great. Then there is the idea like France has of just increasing their income taxes up to 75%. But this is just suicide as well because you can only tax income really if they are US citizens. They will bail on this country in a heartbeat just like they are in France.

    So where does that leave us? Well we republicans have already realized the reality. There is only so much we can do in terms of increasing revenue. We realize that we have to really attack the spending. The fact is we know raising taxes does not equal increased revenue. In fact increased taxes on investments usually will mean decreased economic activity and therefore decreased revenue. Look at now with Obama and you should already know this is true. Heck there is just decreased economic activity now among the investors just because of fear and not even realized yet. So you Democrats can keep living in fantasy land or you can come down to reality and start having a real conversation with us republicans about what we can REALLY do.
     
  2. Dutch
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    Dutch Silver Member

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    What taxes has Obama raised? We have had Tax Cuts in place for nearly 10 years and our economy has gone to shit.
     
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  3. beretta304
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    beretta304 BANNED

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    For starters, President Obama raised the federal excise tax on tobacco by 62 cents within three weeks of his inauguration. If you were wondering why your personal favorite pack of cigarettes is now upwards of $7, well, now you know why. I vaguely remember the president promising that he would “never raise taxes” on those individuals making less than the $250,000 threshold. Ergo, I suppose only those making more than $200,000 annually smoke cigarettes anyways. The purpose of this tax is obviously to discourage people from smoking. It should also be noted that the revenue generated from this tax is used to fund children’s insurance programs, so I guess this is the silver lining of the tax increase. Obama also signed into law a ten percent excise tax on indoor tanning services. Fortunately, this tax is very limited in regards to how many people it actually affects.

    The Obama Administration increased corporate taxes by eliminating several deductions that international companies use to reduce their tax liability. This inevitably raises the cost of doing business for these companies.

    As part of the healthcare transformation, Obama approved an annual fee be imposed on manufacturers of brand-name drugs to help generate revenue for his new healthcare plans. Barack Obama also has several impending tax increases for his landmark legislation Obamacare, most of which are strategically slated to take place after the November elections. There are about 20 tax increases in all.

    Raising taxes directly has always been an unpopular endeavor, regardless of which party the president is affiliated with. This president hasn’t accomplished much in the form of direct taxes, but he has gone full-on Marxist with the indirect taxes. His policies, mostly in accordance with the Environmental Protection Agency, have skyrocketed the costs of doing business. On the day Obama took office, gas prices were averaged around $1.77 a gallon. Today as I write this, the local station here in Texas has regular gasoline for $3.49 a gallon. By this measure, it costs me an extra $1.72 a gallon to drive the same route today than it did just three years ago. For someone that fills up a twenty-gallon gas tank once a week, this increase costs an extra $140 a month. If this isn’t a tax increase, albeit a hidden one, then I don’t know what is. Increasing travel costs make everything more expensive. Let’s also not forget that our electricity prices are skyrocketing (Obama’s words, not mine) due to the destructive cap and trade program.

    Food prices have also gone up substantially. In the first part of last year, the Labor Department stated that food prices soared 3.9% in a single month. It was the biggest increase in over 36 years. Since then, we have continued to experience record levels of food price increases. Perhaps this might explain why 1 in every 7 Americans is now on food stamps. This president’s policies have made affording food a monumental task. In addition to food and gas, we are experiencing a myriad of other hidden taxes. Our home values have tanked by 13%, tuition costs are up 25%, and our health insurance costs have gone up by a staggering 23%.

    While the Obama Administration has been prevented from realizing many of their direct tax proposals, they have succeeded in imposing hidden taxes on the American people by increasing the prices of things we buy. Energy prices are up, food prices keep going up, and we pay almost twice as much at the pump than when Obama first took office. In the aggregate, his policies have been an economic disaster which have substantially increased the cost of living for each and every American.
     
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  4. IHBF
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    IHBF BANNED

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    We have been at war for 10 years and our economy has gone to shit.
     
  5. miami_thomas
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    miami_thomas VIP Member

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    Did you read the whole thing. I said

    Look at now with Obama and you should already know this is true. Heck there is just decreased economic activity now among the investors just because of fear and not even realized yet.
     
  6. Dutch
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    Dutch Silver Member

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    And Tax cuts during wartime are never a good idea.
     
  7. miami_thomas
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    miami_thomas VIP Member

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    Are we changing the subject?
     
  8. Dutch
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    Dutch Silver Member

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    Obama, Bush, Clinton, ....etc have no control over the price of gas. Gas prices are set on the world market. Cigarette tax? Don't smoke=no tax. Food prices can go up when the price of gas goes up. The health care crap is debatable.
     
  9. NYcarbineer
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    NYcarbineer Diamond Member

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    Conservatives want taxes extremely low, but taxes that low won't pay the bills. So then, conservatives say,

    well let's cut all the government spending that we conservatives don't like, and then those low taxes will pay the bills.

    The problem with conservatives on this subject is simple - they live in a fantasy world where they think all the nation's fiscal problems are going to be fixed with the implementation of a set of policies that are 100% pro-conservative,

    all gain no pain, from the conservative point of view.
     
  10. initforme
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    initforme VIP Member

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    My only bone of contention is you dont run on lowering taxes or not raising them and then somehow sneak in the backdoor an increase on the middle class. So if a ryan type budget is passed and taxes are kept at bay thats fine. But then somehow middle class earners end up paying more. I dont see the rich in this country suffering. The war in this country is clearly on those in the middle. It has been for many many years. Is it part of a systematic plan to squeeze this class out? I would hope not.
     

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