Democrats admit that the Public Option will lead to Single Payer government run care

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

However, Obama and those he surrounds himself with have stated that a Public Option is the means to that end.

Its in those videos in their own words.

But that's because they believe the "Public Option" will be so successful, that it will everyone how good single payer would be. Like a test run.

If Republicans are right, and a Single Payer system is as awful as they claim, then the test run willl show everyone how bad it is...

Right?

Unfortunately no, once we go down that road there really isn't any turning back. Look to the history of england or germany's system to see what I mean (right now germany and cuba are trying to bring private insurance into their care system because their public option/single payer system is bankrupt and failing....the UK is bankrupt and failing too but aren't doing much about it).


See my post above? I say leave the health care part of the equation alone...our care is the best in the world and we shouldn't be tinkering with it. Then let the people tell the congress what to do along the lines of regulating the insurance companies so that we, the consumer, are protected.

Some of these Ideas:

• Open up competition by letting people buy private insurance across state lines.
• Regulations making it illegal to deny a current patients claims if they get very sick.
• Tort reform to help eliminate overtesting (waste) out of fear of lawsuits and to lower malpractice insurance costs, and therefore medical costss.
• I'd even be for some sort of backup entitlement plan for catastrophic medical events, say a health savings account that can only be spent on medical things where every dollar you put into it the government matches a dollar (or gives you a 100% tax break which would be the same thing basically).

Those are just 4 reasonable and effective ideas that wont take a complete overhaul of our care system, 1000 page bills, or billions to trillions of dollars to impliment.


I have more faith in people like you and my fellow americans than I do in the congress.


EDIT: I just read maples post and this idea "Make it mandatory that all people who can afford insurance buy insurance. Subsidize the poor." never crossed my mind but I love it. Th at alone will make sure everyone has health care, my only hangup on it is something i discussed with Ravi the other day, what do we consider "too poor to buy their own insurance" 20k/year or less maybe?

 

[chanel]

The problem with the public option is that if it is more efficient (ha ha) provides better service and is cheaper everyone will want it. So instead og being subsidized for X million of people, it will have to serve another tens of millions therefore requiring zillions more in subsidies. And if it sucks. Not only will people die, but they will continue to throw money at it costing zillions more in subsidies.

Has any incompetent govt agency ever gone away? Of course not. They just double their budget. Like public education.

 

[JakeStarkey]

It's good to see people thinking. To those who still think BHO is trying to "socialize" our health care, please get out a little more and do some critical reading. I like the concept that private health insurance companies have to make the goal of coverage and access universal and cost-effective to company and customer, and if they fail, then the government steps in with a public option. That puts the onus where it belongs -- on capitalism to develop, market, and deliver a product of good quality at a reasonable rate. That is good regulation in the public interest.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

It's good to see people thinking. To those who still think BHO is trying to "socialize" our health care, please get out a little more and do some critical reading. I like the concept that private health insurance companies have to make the goal of coverage and access universal and cost-effective to company and customer, and if they fail, then the government steps in with a public option. That puts the onus where it belongs -- on capitalism to develop, market, and deliver a product of good quality at a reasonable rate. That is good regulation in the public interest.

Thank you for the reasonable input and suggestion.

I still have a big hangup with the public option after hearing why the people who are in charge want to have it implimented (to lead to single payer govt care) but your intention with it is nobel unlike the congress' nefarious reasons.

You dont sound like you want to drastically alter the care system with your post, you just sound like the majority of americans who want to make sure people have access to that care that doesn't put them in the poorhouse. Who can argue with that logic?

 

[JakeStarkey]

Thanks, PLYMCO_PILGRIM.

Having in mind what I said before about BHO, let's also realize that a wing of the Democratic left does want to create, first, a complete public option (no capitalistic alternative, such as Australia does so effectively with its two-tier system), and then, second, begin to socialize (take over and nationalize) the health care system.

We have to guard against that group of Democrats as much as we do the far right Republicans who simply want to empty the consumer's pocket book with a shoddy product at exorbitant prices.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

Thanks, PLYMCO_PILGRIM.

Having in mind what I said before about BHO, let's also realize that a wing of the Democratic left does want to create, first, a complete public option (no capitalistic alternative, such as Australia does so effectively with its two-tier system), and then, second, begin to socialize (take over and nationalize) the health care system.

We have to guard against that group of Democrats as much as we do the far right Republicans who simply want to empty the consumer's pocket book with a shoddy product at exorbitant prices.

Now to just get people like you and me elected into office .

 

[The T]

It all boils down to who do you trust more, the government or an insurance company.

if those are our only 2 choices we are screwed.

How about leaving the private sector in charge of the care end of things and then TELLLING our government what we want them to regulate with the insurance companies instead of letting the government tell us what their special interests want them to do.

Sound good?


And I definately will not EVER support a public option after hearing what these people have stated in their own words.

Most sensible people won't. It's nice to see someone else that values Liberty and freedom!

KUDOS!

 

[Care4all]

The problem with the public option is that if it is more efficient (ha ha) provides better service and is cheaper everyone will want it. So instead og being subsidized for X million of people, it will have to serve another tens of millions therefore requiring zillions more in subsidies. And if it sucks. Not only will people die, but they will continue to throw money at it costing zillions more in subsidies.

Has any incompetent govt agency ever gone away? Of course not. They just double their budget. Like public education.

Please chanel and everyone else as well, take some pride in Educating yourself on the Public Option....

The Public option HAS TO PAY FOR ITSELF....NOT ONE DIME of our TAXES goes towards the Public Option.

It is in the legislation that the Public Option pays for itself through the insurance PREMIUMS the customers who CHOSE to go with this insurance plan pays....JUST like all other private insurance companies.

The Public Option must also pay for all of its own administration costs through the premiums charged to their customers.

The Public Option also has a provision that authorizes the administrator to charge the customers MORE than their estimated costs of the program so to have a buffer, a kitty that they can draw from IF they end up having higher health care costs than expected.


The Public Option must follow all rules and regs put upon all private insurance companies on the Insurance Exchange...no special breaks for the public option plan...they have to cover preexisting conditions, etc...like everyone else on the Insurance exchange.

The Public Option is an option WITHIN ONES STATE, it is not set up to be a national plan, but only a public option within the state.

It is NOT a government plan such as Medicare, there ARE NO SPECIAL PRIVILEGES given to this plan....or paying the Doctor less than agreed to etc...it is run as an insurance plan is run in the private sector only there is no profit to pocket, if they make a profit, they have to put this profit back in to better coverage for the members of the plan or a drop in prices for their policies.

Now I ask all of you against it, WHAT IS THE OBJECTION to the Public Option, knowing the above...?

Does not fedex and ups compete with the post office on bigger parcels and do just fine?

care

 

[Immanuel]

The problem with the public option is that if it is more efficient (ha ha) provides better service and is cheaper everyone will want it. So instead og being subsidized for X million of people, it will have to serve another tens of millions therefore requiring zillions more in subsidies. And if it sucks. Not only will people die, but they will continue to throw money at it costing zillions more in subsidies.

Has any incompetent govt agency ever gone away? Of course not. They just double their budget. Like public education.

Please chanel and everyone else as well, take some pride in Educating yourself on the Public Option....

The Public option HAS TO PAY FOR ITSELF....NOT ONE DIME of our TAXES goes towards the Public Option.

It is in the legislation that the Public Option pays for itself through the insurance PREMIUMS the customers who CHOSE to go with this insurance plan pays....JUST like all other private insurance companies.

The Public Option must also pay for all of its own administration costs through the premiums charged to their customers.

The Public Option also has a provision that authorizes the administrator to charge the customers MORE than their estimated costs of the program so to have a buffer, a kitty that they can draw from IF they end up having higher health care costs than expected.


The Public Option must follow all rules and regs put upon all private insurance companies on the Insurance Exchange...no special breaks for the public option plan...they have to cover preexisting conditions, etc...like everyone else on the Insurance exchange.

The Public Option is an option WITHIN ONES STATE, it is not set up to be a national plan, but only a public option within the state.

It is NOT a government plan such as Medicare, there ARE NO SPECIAL PRIVILEGES given to this plan....or paying the Doctor less than agreed to etc...it is run as an insurance plan is run in the private sector only there is no profit to pocket, if they make a profit, they have to put this profit back in to better coverage for the members of the plan or a drop in prices for their policies.

Now I ask all of you against it, WHAT IS THE OBJECTION to the Public Option, knowing the above...?

Does not fedex and ups compete with the post office on bigger parcels and do just fine?

care

Care,

What they say today will be changed with the next bill that comes through. Not only that, they can run the "Public Option" at a loss. They don't have to break even, they simply throw more IOU's into the package just like they do Social Security and all you fans of Obama will be crying out his praises.

Also, the Postal Service claim that you guys are trying to throw out doesn't work. FedEx and UPS and all the others can charge what they want to charge. The dying private health insurance industry are being prevented from doing so by law. Big difference!

Immie

 

[The T]

The problem with the public option is that if it is more efficient (ha ha) provides better service and is cheaper everyone will want it. So instead og being subsidized for X million of people, it will have to serve another tens of millions therefore requiring zillions more in subsidies. And if it sucks. Not only will people die, but they will continue to throw money at it costing zillions more in subsidies.

Has any incompetent govt agency ever gone away? Of course not. They just double their budget. Like public education.

Please chanel and everyone else as well, take some pride in Educating yourself on the Public Option....

The Public option HAS TO PAY FOR ITSELF....NOT ONE DIME of our TAXES goes towards the Public Option.

It is in the legislation that the Public Option pays for itself through the insurance PREMIUMS the customers who CHOSE to go with this insurance plan pays....JUST like all other private insurance companies.

The Public Option must also pay for all of its own administration costs through the premiums charged to their customers.

The Public Option also has a provision that authorizes the administrator to charge the customers MORE than their estimated costs of the program so to have a buffer, a kitty that they can draw from IF they end up having higher health care costs than expected.


The Public Option must follow all rules and regs put upon all private insurance companies on the Insurance Exchange...no special breaks for the public option plan...they have to cover preexisting conditions, etc...like everyone else on the Insurance exchange.

The Public Option is an option WITHIN ONES STATE, it is not set up to be a national plan, but only a public option within the state.

It is NOT a government plan such as Medicare, there ARE NO SPECIAL PRIVILEGES given to this plan....or paying the Doctor less than agreed to etc...it is run as an insurance plan is run in the private sector only there is no profit to pocket, if they make a profit, they have to put this profit back in to better coverage for the members of the plan or a drop in prices for their policies.

Now I ask all of you against it, WHAT IS THE OBJECTION to the Public Option, knowing the above...?

Does not fedex and ups compete with the post office on bigger parcels and do just fine?

care

How? When people are out of work? Infirm? How are they going to PAY for it? Someone has to. The money doesn't come out of thin air. Doctors have to get paid, Insurance companies have to get paid, staff, etc...

Unless you're proposing that Doctors, Staff, and the rest will be forced to get PAID for whatever the Government deems necessary?

NOTHING in this world is free.

 

[driveby]

But that's because they believe the "Public Option" will be so successful, that it will everyone how good single payer would be. Like a test run.

If Republicans are right, and a Single Payer system is as awful as they claim, then the test run willl show everyone how bad it is...

Right?

Running your car into a telephone pole at 50 mph to see if the air bag works might be a neat idea, but most are smart enough not to try it just to show whether it's a good idea ........

Actually that is what crash dummies and labs are for.. Can you at least try to be intelligent?? Or is this willfull ignorance??

Of course what i said was ridiculous, the point was it's not any less ludicrous than the post i quoted previously. Shockingly that point sailed right over your cue ball head......

 

[Care4all]

The problem with the public option is that if it is more efficient (ha ha) provides better service and is cheaper everyone will want it. So instead og being subsidized for X million of people, it will have to serve another tens of millions therefore requiring zillions more in subsidies. And if it sucks. Not only will people die, but they will continue to throw money at it costing zillions more in subsidies.

Has any incompetent govt agency ever gone away? Of course not. They just double their budget. Like public education.

Please chanel and everyone else as well, take some pride in Educating yourself on the Public Option....

The Public option HAS TO PAY FOR ITSELF....NOT ONE DIME of our TAXES goes towards the Public Option.

It is in the legislation that the Public Option pays for itself through the insurance PREMIUMS the customers who CHOSE to go with this insurance plan pays....JUST like all other private insurance companies.

The Public Option must also pay for all of its own administration costs through the premiums charged to their customers.

The Public Option also has a provision that authorizes the administrator to charge the customers MORE than their estimated costs of the program so to have a buffer, a kitty that they can draw from IF they end up having higher health care costs than expected.


The Public Option must follow all rules and regs put upon all private insurance companies on the Insurance Exchange...no special breaks for the public option plan...they have to cover preexisting conditions, etc...like everyone else on the Insurance exchange.

The Public Option is an option WITHIN ONES STATE, it is not set up to be a national plan, but only a public option within the state.

It is NOT a government plan such as Medicare, there ARE NO SPECIAL PRIVILEGES given to this plan....or paying the Doctor less than agreed to etc...it is run as an insurance plan is run in the private sector only there is no profit to pocket, if they make a profit, they have to put this profit back in to better coverage for the members of the plan or a drop in prices for their policies.

Now I ask all of you against it, WHAT IS THE OBJECTION to the Public Option, knowing the above...?

Does not fedex and ups compete with the post office on bigger parcels and do just fine?

care

Care,

What they say today will be changed with the next bill that comes through. Not only that, they can run the "Public Option" at a loss. They don't have to break even, they simply throw more IOU's into the package just like they do Social Security and all you fans of Obama will be crying out his praises.

Also, the Postal Service claim that you guys are trying to throw out doesn't work. FedEx and UPS and all the others can charge what they want to charge. The dying private health insurance industry are being prevented from doing so by law. Big difference!

Immie

good morning immie...

and for goodness sakes...

they can NOT run the Public Option at a loss...IT IS MANDATORY TO BE FULLY FUNDED BY THE POLICY PLAN HOLDERS...in each state.

PLEASE for the love of God, stop spilling this stuff and actually READ the various bills regarding this option. Do you want me to link up to the public plan provisions that back up what i am saying? I will try to find it again, i know i have posted it a few times within the past month....perhaps this is why it is very frustrating when people such as you, continue to let the untruths flow like the Mississippi regarding the public option instead of actually discussing what the bill says, and whether we agree or disagree with the ACTUAL MEASURES in the bill.

THE TRUTH is very important here Immie, and these made up things like what you are saying, is bearing false witness against the plan and the plan bearers, and surely this is not a measure from God...?

AS said, the TRUTH is IMPORTANT, not dishonesty or mischaracterizations of what the public option entails in the bills. It is ALWAYS IMPORTANT to be honestly informed so that all of know what we are for or against...and bringing in stuff that is SIMPLY NOT TRUE, hurts all of us, more than I believe you realize....

care

 

[Vast LWC]

Yes Pilgrim, certainly people who want "Single Payer" feel that showing people how excellent a public option is would be a strong step towards getting what they want.

But that doesn't mean that a public option is just a means to an end.

We have two diametrically opposed sides here.

One side wants single payer, and the other side wants nothing at all. So, the public option is a compromise.

Since Republicans are so convinced that a Single Payer option would be so horrible, then they should be all for a Public Option, so they can show everyone what a terrible idea a Single Payer plan would be.

Or are they afraid that people would like a government-run plan too much?

You are absolutely wrong with your statement that we want nothing at all. We all agree that there needs to be health care reform. I'ts how you get there that counts.

My post was in fact written badly. Instead of "Nothing at all" it sould have read "No type of goverment controlled plan at all".

My bad.

 

[driveby]

But that's because they believe the "Public Option" will be so successful, that it will everyone how good single payer would be. Like a test run.

If Republicans are right, and a Single Payer system is as awful as they claim, then the test run willl show everyone how bad it is...

Right?

Running your car into a telephone pole at 50 mph to see if the air bag works might be a neat idea, but most are smart enough not to try it just to show whether it's a good idea ........

That scenario is as likely to happen as crashing the earth deliberately into the sun.

Start discussing this intelligently, please.

The GOP is terrified that public option will be successfully spectacular. They should be terrified, yes, they should.

The CITIZENS OF THIS COUNTRY are terrified of what the public option will do to the healthcare industry in America. The Dem's could care less about that though, this is all a power grab for THEIR benefit and that's all that really counts right knucklehead ? ........

 

[midcan5]

If there is one crystal clear aspect to the healthcare debate it is the hypocrisy and outright BS from the conservatives and republicans. I would include libertarians but they are more clearly on the side of corporate plunder.

In power they did nothing, now they have plans.
Government can do nothing right but they are afraid Gov will do better than free enterprise.
Being charitable stops when it comes to helping all Americans.
In power they did no tort reform, now it is the panacea. (Actually a state issue.)
They were willing to turn social security over to the crooks who brought us to the brink of economic collapse.
They pretend to be Christians but are really social Darwinists in their policies.
After S&L, Enron, near financial collapse, they tacitly support executives and corporations who fail but make millions doing so.

Reactionary, speculative nonsense from the corporate tools on the right is more than boring, it is useless blather.

 

[Care4all]

The problem with the public option is that if it is more efficient (ha ha) provides better service and is cheaper everyone will want it. So instead og being subsidized for X million of people, it will have to serve another tens of millions therefore requiring zillions more in subsidies. And if it sucks. Not only will people die, but they will continue to throw money at it costing zillions more in subsidies.

Has any incompetent govt agency ever gone away? Of course not. They just double their budget. Like public education.

Please chanel and everyone else as well, take some pride in Educating yourself on the Public Option....

The Public option HAS TO PAY FOR ITSELF....NOT ONE DIME of our TAXES goes towards the Public Option.

It is in the legislation that the Public Option pays for itself through the insurance PREMIUMS the customers who CHOSE to go with this insurance plan pays....JUST like all other private insurance companies.

The Public Option must also pay for all of its own administration costs through the premiums charged to their customers.

The Public Option also has a provision that authorizes the administrator to charge the customers MORE than their estimated costs of the program so to have a buffer, a kitty that they can draw from IF they end up having higher health care costs than expected.


The Public Option must follow all rules and regs put upon all private insurance companies on the Insurance Exchange...no special breaks for the public option plan...they have to cover preexisting conditions, etc...like everyone else on the Insurance exchange.

The Public Option is an option WITHIN ONES STATE, it is not set up to be a national plan, but only a public option within the state.

It is NOT a government plan such as Medicare, there ARE NO SPECIAL PRIVILEGES given to this plan....or paying the Doctor less than agreed to etc...it is run as an insurance plan is run in the private sector only there is no profit to pocket, if they make a profit, they have to put this profit back in to better coverage for the members of the plan or a drop in prices for their policies.

Now I ask all of you against it, WHAT IS THE OBJECTION to the Public Option, knowing the above...?

Does not fedex and ups compete with the post office on bigger parcels and do just fine?

care

How? When people are out of work? Infirm? How are they going to PAY for it? Someone has to. The money doesn't come out of thin air. Doctors have to get paid, Insurance companies have to get paid, staff, etc...

Unless you're proposing that Doctors, Staff, and the rest will be forced to get PAID for whatever the Government deems necessary?

NOTHING in this world is free.

what are you talking about?

the public option is an insurance plan that is paid for by ONLY the people that choose this plan as their coverage...

the bill specifically states such and makes it IMPOSSIBLE to go to the federal government to be bailed out...via our tax dollars?

so what is it T, that you are saying?

Those people poor, will be given affordability credits true....but those that are poor that were on medicaid, will be able to use these affordability credits to buy ANY INSURANCE POLICY THAT THEY WANT that is on the Insurance Exchange in their own state....whether the Public option is in the bill or not in the bill, no one is forced in to any plan, they get to decide what insurance plan is best for them, whether it is blue cross blue shield or a public option insurance plan...

care

 

[driveby]

If there is one crystal clear aspect to the healthcare debate it is the hypocrisy and outright BS from the conservatives and republicans. I would include libertarians but they are more clearly on the side of corporate plunder.

In power they did nothing, now they have plans.

Your entire post is BS liberal talking points but i'll just stick to this one. Your beloved Senator Barack Hussein Obama voted against healthcare reform SIX times if i'm not mistaken, so according to your statement, none of the six were Republican plans........

 

[Yukon]

The majority of doctors (75%) and Americans (62%) want the public option.

You WILL have the public option. Believe it. Not only is it an advantage to America, it's a political necessity for Obama. So move over boys, you have LOST !

 

[driveby]

The majority of doctors (75%) and Americans (62%) want the public option.

You WILL have the public option. Believe it. Not only is it an advantage to America, it's a political necessity for Obama. So move over boys, you have LOST !

Where did you get those numbers ? They just popped into your head while you were fondling an altar boy ? ........

 

[Zona]

Democrats admit that the Public Option will lead to Single Payer government run care ...



Good!