Democratic Senators Cave on Bankruptcy Bill

[Itsthetruth]

Believe the man. He wouldn't lie. This new law will help working middle class people That's why big corporate interests paid big bucks to have it passed. They only care about the "little guy".

Again .... George Bush wouldn't lie about this bill.

 

[insein]

Believe the man. He wouldn't lie. This new law will help working middle class people That's why big corporate interests paid big bucks to have it passed. They only care about the "little guy".

Again .... George Bush wouldn't lie about this bill.



exhibit A. Why it is impossible to discuss anything rationally with a liberal.

 

[musicman]

It's seems you might disagree with my comments, however, it also seems that you can't indicate what you disagree with and why!

Do you deliberately ignore my points, or are you really this bloody dim?

I'm not being facetious here, Itt. I'd really like an answer.

 

[Merlin1047]

It's seems you might disagree with my comments, however, it also seems that you can't indicate what you disagree with and why!

Well, if someone steals your credit card identity that can easily be taken care of. If you can't pay off that card don't worry your little head about it. You're going to the slammer! I write that assuming you also think debtors prisons is yet another great corporate sponsored idea.

Well, if you have a problem with debtors prisons I can help you see the wisdom of such legislation. Just let me tighten up your corporate blinders a bit .... and would you also like a refill on your corporate kool-aid?

First, my wife was the victim of identity theft. Several thousand dollars were fraudulently charged using her name and SSN. It cost us LOTS of aggravation, but that's it. We were not responsible for any monetary damages.

If your credit card is stolen, you are responsible for amounts typically ranging from zero to fifty dollars per card. Annoying, but hardly worth mentioning.

Second, the acceptance of debt is based on a promise to pay. Somehow your left wing philosophy has made the debtor the hero and the finance institution the villain. Too many people use bankrutptcy simply as a means to escape the consequences of their frivolous and irresponsible lifestyle. I'd love to be able to live at the same level as the rich and famous. I could do it too - for a while. Under your view, when that debt I run up finally catches up with me, all I have to do is claim bankruptcy and everything is wiped clean. To my view, a person who willfully refuses to repay a just debt is a thief. The only difference between a person like this and your average hold-up artist is that one uses a gun and the other uses a pen and a piece of plastic.

I sympathize with people who are faced with debt which cannot be anticipated such as sudden medical expenses, or uninsured property losses. People who face such obstacles deserve some protection, but unless there are truly extraordinary circumstances involved, they should have to repay their debts, at least in part.

For the most part, it boils down to personal responsibility. A concept abhorred by most liberals.

 

[Mr. P]

I'm no liberal, you guys know that.
I believe people should pay their bills. However, my wifes' sole practice is Bankruptcy Law, so I have insight into the whole process, the good, bad and ugly. Ya think we have homeless folks now, just wait, grandma will be out there soon.
There will be lots of other good people that did pay their bills joining her. .THIS IS A BAD BILL!

 

[5stringJeff]

You want to avoid bankrupcy?

You want to avoid getting taken to the cleaners by the "evil" credit card companies and banks?

Then DON'T SPEND MORE MONEY THAN YOU MAKE!!!

Seriously... don't use credit cards, don't buy incredibly expensive cars, don't go on a shopping spree with money you don't have! It's that simple! And if you've done that in the past, make the decision to STOP and get a plan to get out of debt. It might take a couple of years, but it's will worth the effort.

 

[no1tovote4]

I'm no liberal, you guys know that.
I believe people should pay their bills. However, my wifes' sole practice is Bankruptcy Law, so I have insight into the whole process, the good, bad and ugly. Ya think we have homeless folks now, just wait, grandma will be out there soon.
There will be lots of other good people that did pay their bills joining her. .THIS IS A BAD BILL!

In which way? I am truly interested in your wife's opinion on this particular law. Does it make it impossible for an individual to declare any sort of Bankruptcy, or just more difficult?

 

[Itsthetruth]

I sympathize with people who are faced with debt which cannot be anticipated such as sudden medical expenses, or uninsured property losses. People who face such obstacles deserve some protection, but unless there are truly extraordinary circumstances involved, they should have to repay their debts, at least in part.

And people who have the above stated problem have absolutely no protection under this new law. An amendment to the legislation that provided such protection was defeated. The bill was passed without any amendments.

I agree with you that they deserve protection. They got none under this new law. Do you still support the bill?

 

[Avatar4321]

So whose side are you taking ..... the banks and credit card companies or their victims, working middle class people?

You know you really need to get over this silly marxist class warfare paradign. You think creating a false dilemna between the banks and credit card companties and the working middle class is going to fix any problems in the world? Get over it. Who do you think works for Banks and credit card companies? It sure aint the non working poor class, nor the non working rich class.

How exactly does the working middle class benefit when people who refuse to pay their debts and shift the costs to those who work hard to run their small business or buy a house and have to have higher interest rates because of the defaulters? How does it help the middle class to put these institutions out of business causing them to lose jobs and opportunities to borrow money to put their children through school? Do you ever actually think about what you advocate? Or do you just spend all day acting self righteous because you are going to fight agaisnt these so called "evil" corporations. Your tactics only end up hurting those that you claim to be the champion of.

Im working middle class. So let me speak for my fellow middle classers and say Shut up! We can take care of ourselves. we dont know Self Righteous activities like you pretending you give a damn about us.

 

[Avatar4321]

And people who have the above stated problem have absolutely no protection under this new law. An amendment to the legislation that provided such protection was defeated. The bill was passed without any amendments.

I agree with you that they deserve protection. They got none under this new law. Do you still support the bill?

Tell me where in the bill did it repeal the protection they already have?

 

[rtwngAvngr]

And when the rate of inflation dropped from 10% to less than 3% and when the prime rate dropped to 1%, did credit card interest rates drop? NO!

Take the blinders off. Credit card rates will not go down no matter what the rate of inflation is or how much money credit card companies can squeeze out of consumers. You see .... 30 billion dollars was just not enough profit for them. They need more. Help them!

Let me get you some more of that good corporate kool-aid. It will refresh your mind!

I know you advocate the shirking of responsibility as some sort of positive in society, but the reasonable amongst us realize the absurdity of your views.

 

[Itsthetruth]

The amendment to afford such protection and other amendments were voted down. If you don't have time, I'll look that up for you. But, have to leave now. See you tomorrow. Don't go anywhere!

 

[Itsthetruth]

You think creating a false dilemna between the banks and credit card companties and the working middle class is going to fix any problems in the world? [/B]

Right. We're all just one big happy family. Me, Kenneth Lay, the Enron workers, oil company execs ..... happy, happy happy!

And anytime anyone dares criticize the big corporate interests that run "their" government the right-wing starts crying "Oh please stop that .... you're preaching class warfare"

Booo Hooo

Now let's all shed a tear for their hero .... Kenneth Lay.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Right. We're all just one big happy family. Me, Kenneth Lay, the Enron workers, oil company execs ..... happy, happy happy!

And anytime anyone dares criticize the big corporate interests that run "their" government the right-wing starts crying "Oh please stop that .... you're preaching class warfare"

Booo Hooo

Now let's all shed a tear for their hero .... Kenneth Lay.

Hey, why should the rest of society be forced to pick up the slack for those too immature, irresponsible, or immoral to honor their own debts? You can attempt to turn this into some robin hood escapade against big bad corporations, but you look like a fool, though I'm sure you enjoy the sheer fit of your emerald tights.

 

[Mr. P]

You want to avoid bankrupcy?

You want to avoid getting taken to the cleaners by the "evil" credit card companies and banks?

Then DON'T SPEND MORE MONEY THAN YOU MAKE!!!

Seriously... don't use credit cards, don't buy incredibly expensive cars, don't go on a shopping spree with money you don't have! It's that simple! ....

It would be nice if it were that simple..In some cases it is, in many more it's not...Believe me.

 

[Mr. P]

In which way? I am truly interested in your wife's opinion on this particular law. Does it make it impossible for an individual to declare any sort of Bankruptcy, or just more difficult?

I'll try and get some specifics for you. One of the things I remember in the proposed Bill was, if the client told the attorney "xyz" and "xyz" turned out to be false, the attorney would be held liable, not the client..To make since of that, if you as my client told me you own no property and it turns out you do, it's my problem you lied and I would be held liable by the Federal Bankrupcy Court. I don't know if that's still part of the bill or not, but it's part of what the credit card companies were pushing to prevent Lawyers from even taking cases. This is much more complex than people just paying their debts.

 

[nosarcasm]

One of the advantages of the Us as I perceived it is that
consumers spend alot of money and stimulate the domestic market.

In Germany credit is very hard to get and the domestic market
suffers from it.

In the US credit is very easy to get.

While I understand that some people abuse the credit card / Bancrupcy
system I worry the new tough rules will put a dent in consumption.

Overall the few poor slackers do not matter thats what the high interest
is for.

Hopefully this bill will not backfire on the economy.

 

[Merlin1047]

I'll try and get some specifics for you. One of the things I remember in the proposed Bill was, if the client told the attorney "xyz" and "xyz" turned out to be false, the attorney would be held liable, not the client..To make since of that, if you as my client told me you own no property and it turns out you do, it's my problem you lied and I would be held liable by the Federal Bankrupcy Court. I don't know if that's still part of the bill or not, but it's part of what the credit card companies were pushing to prevent Lawyers from even taking cases. This is much more complex than people just paying their debts.

If that's the case then I believe that lawyers could draw up agreements wherein the client has to agree to indemnify the attorney for any costs incurred as a result of the client's dishonesty.

Granted that's a pain, but I doubt seriously that any attorney will be left holding the bag.

 

[Bullypulpit]

The bankruptcy bil making its way through Congress is nothing more than a payback to the banking and credit card industry for the more than <a href=http://www.opensecrets.org/industries/indus.asp?ind=F06>$7 million</a> in campaign contributions doled out to republicans and democrats in the last election cycle.

Why else would millionaires be able to shield their assets but not the average person?

Why else would the homestead exeption for seniors forced into bankruptcy by medical expense be blocked?

Why else would returning veterans not be provided the ability to get back on their feet after being forced into bankruptcy during their tours of duty?

The bankruptcy bill is simply an excuse to turn the bankruptcy courts into a collection agency for the banking and credit card industry, and deny people who have been forced into bankruptcy due to illness, unemployment or divorce, which compromise the majority of reasons for bankruptcy, a chance to rebuild their lives. It will force many otherwise good and decent people into indentured servants of their creditors.

 

[Bullypulpit]

You want to avoid bankrupcy?

You want to avoid getting taken to the cleaners by the "evil" credit card companies and banks?

Then DON'T SPEND MORE MONEY THAN YOU MAKE!!!

Seriously... don't use credit cards, don't buy incredibly expensive cars, don't go on a shopping spree with money you don't have! It's that simple! And if you've done that in the past, make the decision to STOP and get a plan to get out of debt. It might take a couple of years, but it's will worth the effort.

Sounds like advice the Administration needs to take before it bankrupts the nation.