CDZ Democracy is "fine" but have many flaws

[The Sage of Main Street]

Those with money & power almost always get what they want.

Wags Wearing Wigs

They got the Constitution they want, and the brainwashing power to make their subjects believe it is a national treasure.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Violates the current constitution

I'm sorry -- did you just agree that 51% of the people -don't- get what they want?

Yes they do. But it's not immediate

When 51% of the people want to reinstate slavery (and thus, 49% do not) when will the 51% get what they want?

Thru a system
Inside states voting themselves
Thru making amendments to the constitution by a 1 vote majority after the threshold is met.

You need a 2/3 majority to change the constitution.

Wee-Wee on the People

Two-thirds of easily bribed state legislatures.

 

[M14 Shooter]

You know that slavery violates the constitution, right?

Violates the current constitution

I'm sorry -- did you just agree that 51% of the people -don't- get what they want?

Yes they do. But it's not immediate

When 51% of the people want to reinstate slavery (and thus, 49% do not) when will the 51% get what they want?

Plutocrat Parasites Got Rich on Wage Slavery
Only a mind slave would think your strawman examples prove anything.

Read for comprehension, please.

 

[Leo123]

Definition of a true Democracy: 5 men an 1 woman vote to see if the woman should be raped. Men win. The U.S. does not operate on a true Democracy because it wouldn't work. Which is also the reason for representatives and the EC.

 

[GreenAndBlue]

Definition of a true Democracy: 5 men an 1 woman vote to see if the woman should be raped. Men win. The U.S. does not operate on a true Democracy because it wouldn't work. Which is also the reason for representatives and the EC.

But America has

That is why America today has record low IQ voters compared to the founders voters ... Because our limited democracy has voted itself into a much wider democracy

Again America's limited democracy has voted itself into a much wider democracy

 

[Leo123]

Definition of a true Democracy: 5 men an 1 woman vote to see if the woman should be raped. Men win. The U.S. does not operate on a true Democracy because it wouldn't work. .

What Doesn't Work Is the Idle-Rich Clique

You just want to feel superior to the majority. You're a sucker for the oligarchy that smirks at you bootlicking fools and gets all its power from traitors like you. Your loyal-serf attitude doesn't belong in America and is bringing us down.

You completely ignored my post and went on a nonsensical diatribe.

 

[GreenAndBlue]

Again the bottem line of why democracies always commits suicide

Is that adults voting can have different logic levels

Making a lower logic vote equal to a higher logic votes. Runs off the higher logic voters and crooks are elected to destroy the nation

Only a democracy of the highest level of logic ability can work and save the nation

 

[task0778]

The flaws in our representative democracy are almost entirely due to human nature. I do not believe there ever has been or will ever be a perfect form of gov't, and the one we've got is pretty damn good conceptually. Our problems are due to a poor job done by our representatives and ourselves for not holding them accountable.

 

[GreenAndBlue]

The flaws in our representative democracy are almost entirely due to human nature. I do not believe there ever has been or will ever be a perfect form of gov't, and the one we've got is pretty damn good conceptually. Our problems are due to a poor job done by our representatives and ourselves for not holding them accountable.

One answer

The voters has voted in lower and lower ages and logic

And that is what elects crooks that destroys the nation

The cure is a very limited democracy of very high logic ability voters

 

[grbb]

Again the bottom line of why democracies always commit suicide

Is that adults voting can have different logic levels

Making a lower logic vote equal to a higher logic vote. Runs off the higher logic voters and crooks are elected to destroy the nation

Only a democracy of the highest level of logic ability can work and save the nation

You are correct.

However, I see the problem from totally different points of view.

I think democracy should be combined with capitalism for a better result.

The population has a diverse need. Hence, they have plenty of conflict of interests.

For example. Imagine we are all consumers of a bakery.

Say the bakery is owned by the state and the customers can vote.

Some want the bakery to produce more burgers, and some want to provide more pizza. Some wish to subsidize burger. Some want to support pizza.

Neither will truly be happy under democracy. Often the deals falls out and we have civil war. Just look at Sunni vs Shia kind of thing in middle east.

Often we settle for banal/neutral solutions like libertarianism, secularism, and liberalism. Those are fine. Neutral solutions allow different people to get along and most nations should be that way.

Should all nation be that way? Those who just want to stick with their own kind have no where to go. That is why racist and religious fundamentalist commit terrorism. They have nowhere to go under normal democracy.

Because of this conflict of interests, most narrative in a democracy are lies. Each of us provides narratives that serve our interests instead of what's true.

Each of us "sells" our preferred solution as if it's what's good for everyone. For example, secularism is good for me. It may not be good for my Muslim buddy.

However, I would say secularism is awesome to persuade as many voters as possible to vote secularism. Some Muslim fundamentalists then commit terrorism.

So what's the solution? Imagine multiple competing pizzas, burger, and bakeries companies. Imagine if each people can buy and sell shares of those companies and customers can buy pizza and burger from those competing companies.

Here, many things that are hard to measure, such as how delicious this pizza is, can be measured effectively. How many people want to buy the pizza and how cost-effective the pizza is already taken into account. We have something called share valuation to see that.

This is how capitalism works.

That is why I think democracy should be combined with capitalism.

For a start let's give some dividend to all citizens. Those dividends should replace welfare. Universal basic income or citizen dividends will be implemented in many places.

I think we should call welfare program what it really is. It's really dividend. Those welfare parasites got welfare not because we are compassionate. Those welfare parasites got welfare because they can vote and we want them to vote "our way". Welfare is our way to buy their vote.

But let's simplify welfare program, job creation, and corporate welfare into simple citizen dividend.

Then, turn voters into "owners". So each guy owns a state/province. Each guy have one and only one share and each share has valuation.

Then there should be a market where people can exchange the ownership of one state with ownership of the other state and there should be some market value on those exchanges.

For example, say someone wants to exchange Chicago with California ownership. If California is more valuable than Chicago then he has to pay money while the reverse gets money. The same way if I want to exchange ownership of Jakarta with a share of Irian.

Each share have valuation and people that want to change have to pay or get the price different.

If California is governed well, taxpayers will move there, and the state will be more valuable. The guy that can predict which states will be governed better will be rich. So everyone will have the incentive to be correct.

Each voter does not have to care what the actual population want. They need only to care about the valuation of their share and pick the one that's "about to go up".

Taxpayers then vote with their foot and move to states that they like. Voters that obviously want their share to go up will pick the best CEO to govern their states/provinces.

Disgruntled voters can buy shares in different states and disgruntled tax payers can move to "niche" states or cities that want their tax money.

I think this will fix democracy a lot.

Hell. Most share holders don't even bother voting and yet most blue chip companies are doing fine.

 

[grbb]

In other words, rather than having our will represented in an election in 4-5 years election, let's see how our will are represented constantly in the market of state/province ownership.

When you disagree with what your governor/major do, but everyone else agrees, you just exchange your share of your city/province with the share of another city or province. You can repurchase it once your prediction comes true.

States/provinces that can attract the most taxpayers and the highest paying ones will make more money, give more dividend, and have a higher valuation.

 

[task0778]

Wrong
This is a democracy since the voters controls the govt

51% of the people want to reinstate slavery.
Does democracy rule?

Yes if every state votes 1 vote majority

You know that slavery violates the constitution, right?

Violates the current constitution

I'm sorry -- did you just agree that 51% of the people -don't- get what they want?

The 2016 election proves that, right? Hillary won the popular vote by whatever the % was yet lost the election, so the majority of voters didn't get what they want. In Britain the majority of voters voted for Brexit but their gov't won't follow the dictates of the voters. So, over the short run, democracy doesn't always rule for a variety of reasons. But - over the long run it does, or should if the voters vote out the people who do not follow through on their promises for which they got elected in the 1st place.

 

[M14 Shooter]

51% of the people want to reinstate slavery.
Does democracy rule?

Yes if every state votes 1 vote majority

You know that slavery violates the constitution, right?

Violates the current constitution

I'm sorry -- did you just agree that 51% of the people -don't- get what they want?

The 2016 election proves that, right? Hillary won the popular vote by whatever the % was yet lost the election, so the majority of voters didn't get what they want.

Hillary didn't win a majority of the popular vote; the majority of voters did NOT want Hillary as President.

In the US system of government, simply having a majority does not mean you get what you want.

 

[grbb]

Democracy is complex. We got three branches of government. Legislative, executive, and judicative. All those branches can and will commit collusion with one another. Just look at Suharto era.

Look at how corporate democracy works. Do they have that issue?

 

[SSDD]

Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. Our founders knew that....which is why the Constitution they wrote establishes a representative republic. It never ceases to amaze me how many people believe that the US is a democracy. Do they no longer even teach kids the nature of the US government or constitution in school?