Democracy In Egypt Is Bad For The United States

[Dr.Traveler]

Tyranny.

The Right's new boyfriend.

Since when did the right start liking Obama, Statists, and their damaging policies?

There's a direct throughline to supporting Dictatorships overseas, and ending up with one at home.

Let's say for a second that the US decides that the best way to fight Islamic Extremism is to install puppet dictators in any country where democracy could translate into Extremist control. To do that, you'll at the very least end up running covert ops in that country to smooth the way for your dictator. You'll have to arm him, and you'll have to provide him the resources to stay in power. You'll probably have to run cover for him in the US and World press not to mention provide political cover all over the world for him.

Now, that will all cost money and require coordination. The more dictators you support, the more it will cost. The longer they endure, the more they cost as corruption and public anger rise.

To pay for that, you'll need tax revenue, which requires a larger Federal Government to collect that money. Coordinating support in the Press and on the world stage requires expanded Federal power to ensure you have the resources and national will necessary.

That's why it is incompatible to advocate interferring in another country's right to self determination while at the same time advocating small government here at home. Your stance on other nations requires a large government to implement.

 

[Dr.Traveler]

How did you weigh your ass separately? I didn't know that could be done. Must be new technology.

Dude, no need to get that personal. Calm down.

And she's a Green Bay fan, so she can't be that terrible of a person.

;-) Damn right I am.- That was an awesome game!

Yes, yes it was. And for the record, I'm considering putting my daughter on the Season ticket list. She's supposed to enter the world in March, so there's a chance she could end up with tickets in what, 30 years or so

 

[NYcarbineer]

It's always different when it's YOUR guy:

1. June 2004 - Bush asks NATO to spread democracy in Middle East.

2. Feb. 2004 - During Sunday’s hour-long interview with Tim Russert of “Meet the Press,” President Bush emphasized his determination to spread freedom and democracy throughout the Middle East

2. Mar. 2005 - Bush: Democracy Is On The March Cites Progress In Middle East

4. Nov. 2003 - Bush vows decades of war for “democracy” in the Middle East

And on and on and on it went.

Case closed, you phoney hypocritical partisan hack fucks.

 

[Truthmatters]

How very sad that some care more for party than the ideals of freedom

 

[LadyGunSlinger]

Dude, no need to get that personal. Calm down.

And she's a Green Bay fan, so she can't be that terrible of a person.

;-) Damn right I am.- That was an awesome game!

Yes, yes it was. And for the record, I'm considering putting my daughter on the Season ticket list. She's supposed to enter the world in March, so there's a chance she could end up with tickets in what, 30 years or so

Awww, congrats to you Doc on the wonderful blessing of a daughter! Here's to a healthy and safe birth! *hug

 

[mudwhistle]

I wonder if the cons on here would react the same way when the American people insisted on freedom?

If it means getting rid of Obama, I'd be the first to go out there with a towel wrapped around my head.

Workers of the world unite.

 

[The T]

Tyranny.

The Right's new boyfriend.

Since when did the right start liking Obama, Statists, and their damaging policies?

There's a direct throughline to supporting Dictatorships overseas, and ending up with one at home.

Let's say for a second that the US decides that the best way to fight Islamic Extremism is to install puppet dictators in any country where democracy could translate into Extremist control. To do that, you'll at the very least end up running covert ops in that country to smooth the way for your dictator. You'll have to arm him, and you'll have to provide him the resources to stay in power. You'll probably have to run cover for him in the US and World press not to mention provide political cover all over the world for him.

Now, that will all cost money and require coordination. The more dictators you support, the more it will cost. The longer they endure, the more they cost as corruption and public anger rise.

To pay for that, you'll need tax revenue, which requires a larger Federal Government to collect that money. Coordinating support in the Press and on the world stage requires expanded Federal power to ensure you have the resources and national will necessary.

That's why it is incompatible to advocate interferring in another country's right to self determination while at the same time advocating small government here at home. Your stance on other nations requires a large government to implement.

Thanks for the input.

 

[LibocalypseNow]

Well said. Lets take our money and spend it right here at home. It's very clear that Anti-American forces will be seizing control of Egypt in the near future. That's just reality. We should no longer fund Egypt's Government. Egypt is for Egyptians. Time to take our money & troops from the entire Middle East and bring them back home where they belong. This is a perfect opportunity for our nation to change its Foreign Policy. Let Egypt sort out their own affairs. Aggressive Foreign Interventionism should become a thing of the past for our nation. I do wish the Egyptians well but it's time for us to end our involvement with their Governments.

 

[LibocalypseNow]

This is where the Socialists and Neocons are always wrong. Democracy does not always = Pro-America. Both parties have pushed an aggressive Foreign Interventionist Foreign Policy on us for many many years. We need a more neutral Foreign Policy. Unfortunately our politicians always feel they need to pick a side in every conflict on this Earth. So we become the World Referee & World Policeman everywhere.

This Foreign Policy will always be a Lose/Lose proposition for us. In the end it will always be America's fault. Who do you think Egyptians will blame when or if their new Government is a miserable failure? Do you really believe they'll blame themselves? No,they'll just blame that "Evil America" again. We're just a convenient whipping-boy at this point. But this is our own fault. We need revolutionary changes in our Foreign Policy. Unfortunately i don't think either political party is prepared to make these changes. Meddling is just what we do. It's very sad.

 

[Dr.Drock]

Well said. Lets take our money and spend it right here at home. It's very clear that Anti-American forces will be seizing control of Egypt in the near future. That's just reality. We should no longer fund Egypt's Government. Egypt is for Egyptians. Time to take our money & troops from the entire Middle East and bring them back home where they belong. This is a perfect opportunity for our nation to change its Foreign Policy. Let Egypt sort out their own affairs. Aggressive Foreign Interventionism should become a thing of the past for our nation. I do wish the Egyptians well but it's time for us to end our involvement with their Governments.

Well said, and let's not have our presidents waste time giving speeches on the issue, pointlessly riles up people home and abroad.

 

[mudwhistle]

How very sad that some care more for party than the ideals of freedom

Freedom is not what we're seeing take root in Egypt.

It's the forces of chaos and the mob with the help of communists and radical Islamic fundimentalists.

You did see them praying to Allah, didn't you???

I did.

I hope it turns out well but I seriously doubt it.

 

[Papples]

Whether or not democracy in Egypt is bad for the US or not (and I don't believe that it will be, long term) is irrelevant. They have the right to determine their own future. We are hypocrites if we interfere, regardless of our reasoning.

 

[LibocalypseNow]

Well said. Lets take our money and spend it right here at home. It's very clear that Anti-American forces will be seizing control of Egypt in the near future. That's just reality. We should no longer fund Egypt's Government. Egypt is for Egyptians. Time to take our money & troops from the entire Middle East and bring them back home where they belong. This is a perfect opportunity for our nation to change its Foreign Policy. Let Egypt sort out their own affairs. Aggressive Foreign Interventionism should become a thing of the past for our nation. I do wish the Egyptians well but it's time for us to end our involvement with their Governments.

Well said, and let's not have our presidents waste time giving speeches on the issue, pointlessly riles up people home and abroad.

Yes and people are kidding themselves if they think we're not still interfering over there. We simply threw Mubarak under the bus when we thought it was convenient to do so. Now it's time to pay off the new Egyptian Government. Nothing has changed. Bet on that.

 

[kiwiman127]

Well said. Lets take our money and spend it right here at home. It's very clear that Anti-American forces will be seizing control of Egypt in the near future. That's just reality. We should no longer fund Egypt's Government. Egypt is for Egyptians. Time to take our money & troops from the entire Middle East and bring them back home where they belong. This is a perfect opportunity for our nation to change its Foreign Policy. Let Egypt sort out their own affairs. Aggressive Foreign Interventionism should become a thing of the past for our nation. I do wish the Egyptians well but it's time for us to end our involvement with their Governments.

I wouldn't be so sure.
The Egyptian Army is who it really seems, controls Egypt. Most of the upper tier of the military leaders in the Egyptian military have been trained in the US and have close ties with the US, in particular the Pentagon. Again as military men, they love the "toys' the US has provided them. Why would they want to allow circumstances, that would weaken their hand?
Just a little food for thought.

 

[Dr.Drock]

Well said. Lets take our money and spend it right here at home. It's very clear that Anti-American forces will be seizing control of Egypt in the near future. That's just reality. We should no longer fund Egypt's Government. Egypt is for Egyptians. Time to take our money & troops from the entire Middle East and bring them back home where they belong. This is a perfect opportunity for our nation to change its Foreign Policy. Let Egypt sort out their own affairs. Aggressive Foreign Interventionism should become a thing of the past for our nation. I do wish the Egyptians well but it's time for us to end our involvement with their Governments.

Well said, and let's not have our presidents waste time giving speeches on the issue, pointlessly riles up people home and abroad.

Yes and people are kidding themselves if they think we're not still interfering over there. We simply threw Mubarak under the bus when we thought it was convenient to do so. Now it's time to pay off the new Egyptian Government. Nothing has changed. Bet on that.

Trust me if Vegas gave me odds on that bet I'd be emptying my account right now.

 

[konradv]

Well said. Lets take our money and spend it right here at home. It's very clear that Anti-American forces will be seizing control of Egypt in the near future. That's just reality. We should no longer fund Egypt's Government. Egypt is for Egyptians. Time to take our money & troops from the entire Middle East and bring them back home where they belong. This is a perfect opportunity for our nation to change its Foreign Policy. Let Egypt sort out their own affairs. Aggressive Foreign Interventionism should become a thing of the past for our nation. I do wish the Egyptians well but it's time for us to end our involvement with their Governments.

I wouldn't be so sure.
The Egyptian Army is who it really seems, controls Egypt. Most of the upper tier of the military leaders in the Egyptian military have been trained in the US and have close ties with the US, in particular the Pentagon. Again as military men, they love the "toys' the US has provided them. Why would they want to allow circumstances, that would weaken their hand?
Just a little food for thought.

Keeping my fingers crossed that they'll hold legitimate elections, then let the chips fall where they may. We can only have so much influence without damaging the chances of those we favor.

 

[LibocalypseNow]

Well said. Lets take our money and spend it right here at home. It's very clear that Anti-American forces will be seizing control of Egypt in the near future. That's just reality. We should no longer fund Egypt's Government. Egypt is for Egyptians. Time to take our money & troops from the entire Middle East and bring them back home where they belong. This is a perfect opportunity for our nation to change its Foreign Policy. Let Egypt sort out their own affairs. Aggressive Foreign Interventionism should become a thing of the past for our nation. I do wish the Egyptians well but it's time for us to end our involvement with their Governments.

I wouldn't be so sure.
The Egyptian Army is who it really seems, controls Egypt. Most of the upper tier of the military leaders in the Egyptian military have been trained in the US and have close ties with the US, in particular the Pentagon. Again as military men, they love the "toys' the US has provided them. Why would they want to allow circumstances, that would weaken their hand?
Just a little food for thought.

Good point. Just one more reason to blame "Evil America" when or if their new Government fails. We're just setting ourselves up for failure once again. We need to end funding for the Egyptian Government. When things go bad again over there,who do you the Egyptian People are going to blame? Foreign Aid needs to be reassessed for many other nations as well. If the Military runs things over there,will they really be a Democracy? See,either way we lose. Aggressive Foreign Interventionism just doesn't work in the end.

 

[mudwhistle]

Whether or not democracy in Egypt is bad for the US or not (and I don't believe that it will be, long term) is irrelevant. They have the right to determine their own future. We are hypocrites if we interfere, regardless of our reasoning.

We already have been.

The White House was instigating this revolution.

Guess you weren't paying attention.

A lot of people in the Middle East are pissed about it too.

 

[The T]

Whether or not democracy in Egypt is bad for the US or not (and I don't believe that it will be, long term) is irrelevant. They have the right to determine their own future. We are hypocrites if we interfere, regardless of our reasoning.

We already have been.

The White House was instigating this revolution.

Guess you weren't paying attention.

A lot of people in the Middle East are pissed about it too.

Should Jordan be worried that they might be next?

 

[kiwiman127]

Well said. Lets take our money and spend it right here at home. It's very clear that Anti-American forces will be seizing control of Egypt in the near future. That's just reality. We should no longer fund Egypt's Government. Egypt is for Egyptians. Time to take our money & troops from the entire Middle East and bring them back home where they belong. This is a perfect opportunity for our nation to change its Foreign Policy. Let Egypt sort out their own affairs. Aggressive Foreign Interventionism should become a thing of the past for our nation. I do wish the Egyptians well but it's time for us to end our involvement with their Governments.

I wouldn't be so sure.
The Egyptian Army is who it really seems, controls Egypt. Most of the upper tier of the military leaders in the Egyptian military have been trained in the US and have close ties with the US, in particular the Pentagon. Again as military men, they love the "toys' the US has provided them. Why would they want to allow circumstances, that would weaken their hand?
Just a little food for thought.

Good point. Just one more reason to blame "Evil America" when or if their new Government fails. We're just setting ourselves up for failure once again. We need to end funding for the Egyptian Government. When things go bad again over there,who do you the Egyptian People are going to blame? Foreign Aid needs to be reassessed for many other nations as well. If the Military runs things over there,will they really be a Democracy? See,either way we lose. Aggressive Foreign Interventionism just doesn't work in the end.

I don't think we really know how this will play out.
I do know that the Egyptian military was part of the effort to hold down the Muslim Brotherhood during Mubaraks reign and like I said they are fairly close to the US military leadership. But where Egypt is now, who knows what the next direction the country goes?
I just think it's way to early to push the panic button and it would be wise not to listen to the pundits, who themselves are just guessing,