Democracy In Egypt Is Bad For The United States

[BlindBoo]

Let's face it. They hate us. No election in any Middle Eastern country is going to put in place a government that is friendly to our country or our primary ally, Israel.

It also doesn't help that Obama has been actively running this revolution from the White House. They don't want to give the impression this is an American operation but it's getting harder and harder to hide the fact. Guess it just depends on what people are willing to believe.

What's the difference between the kind of government takeover and regime-building Bush did in Iraq and Obama is doing in Egypt?

Why is Egypt of more strategic importance then Iraq is?

We've got some serious idiots currently running our government and we're powerless to stop them from screwing the pooch. What they're doing today will effect our lives for decades to come. It could mean the deaths of thousands of Israelis.

"Prudence, indeed, will dictate that governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shown that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security."



After 70 years of broken Western promises regarding Arab independence, it should not be surprising that the West is viewed with suspicion and hostility by the populations (as opposed to some of the political regimes) of the Middle East.[3] The United States, as the heir to British imperialism in the region, has been a frequent object of suspicion. Since the end of World War II, the United States, like the European colonial powers before it, has been unable to resist becoming entangled in the region's political conflicts. Driven by a desire to keep the vast oil reserves in hands friendly to the United States, a wish to keep out potential rivals (such as the Soviet Union), opposition to neutrality in the cold war, and domestic political considerations, the United States has compiled a record of tragedy in the Middle East.

"Ancient History": U.S. Conduct in the Middle East Since World War II and the Folly of Intervention | Sheldon L. Richman | Cato Institute: Policy Analysis

 

[LadyGunSlinger]

It's funny that you had an entirely different attitude when you were supporting and justifying 4000+ Americans getting killed in Iraq:

http://www.usmessageboard.com/3019459-post55.html

So I guess encouraging 'reason and patience' THEN didn't have as much charm for you. I guess getting 4000+ Americans needlessly killed was more appealing then,

maybe because Obama wasn't president then?

Post where I justified the deaths of Americans?? DO IT. SO much for your truthfulness Carb. Is that all you have? To make up shit in order to deflect the nasty truth of your own hypocrisy??

that post wasn't directed at you, you daft cow.

Oooo Carb called me a name.... lol You're a joke.

 

[editec]

Let's face it. They hate us. No election in any Middle Eastern country is going to put in place a government that is friendly to our country or our primary ally, Israel.

And you tell us this with such conviction based on what, exactly?

It also doesn't help that Obama has been actively running this revolution from the White House.

Yeah, right. Obma is in charge of the crowds in Egypt.

Try again.

They don't want to give the impression this is an American operation but it's getting harder and harder to hide the fact. Guess it just depends on what people are willing to believe.

Do you have the slightest bit of evidence to support this wild claim?

Of course not.

 

[LadyGunSlinger]

When Obama consorts with a group directly tied to terror over the affairs of another nation and publically calls for it's ouster-- it's defending democracy ..

When Boooosh does it, it's a lie and people die. LMAO

Has anyone ever dissected the brain of a liberal?

 

[gekaap]

Why should we care about any religious or ethnic group for that matter?

It's pretty clear what makes you tick.

You're a bigot. Back in the 50s racism was popular. Now hatred toward Christians is very popular and you're just in it because you think you can get away with it.

You're despicable.

I think that people should not be viewed in terms of their religion, and that there should be no special concern for any given religion over another. I have no hatred toward Christians. I have a hatred toward discrimination. If that's what you consider despicable, then you're just projecting.

 

[Dr.Traveler]

I find it hillarious that "Conservatives" are against a strong centralized government... unless its a foreign dictatorship and then it's just awesome. See the "Conservative" game plan during the Cold War, where the MO was replace a democracy with a dictatorship through CIA operations on days ending in "y".

Perhaps if you all took the time to talk to folks from other countries, or study history, you'd learn that most folks genuinely like Americans, but hate the interventionalist policies of the US Government. Let's just leave well enough alone.

BTW, if you're posting in this thread in favor of supporting a dictatorship overseas, don't you dare start posting in other places claiming to be a "Small Government Conservative." I know I'm bookmarking this thread as a wonderful way to out Neo-Cons.

 

[Dr.Traveler]

Did you even know up until 20 days ago that Egypt was such a mess??? Did you know who the Muslim Brotherhood was before then???

Yes and yes. Egypt has been a mess for a good long time, and the Muslim Brotherhood has been the boogeyman Mubarak has appealled to for years in order to shore up US and Israeli support for his regime.

This was coming for a long time. The folks really pushing for reform are the educated middle class and the college students who decided not to idly stand by while Mubarak set up his son to be the next President for Life. If the Muslim Brotherhood end up in charge, it'll likely be because Mubarak has been the best publicist the group ever had.

 

[uptownlivin90]

Let's face it. They hate us. No election in any Middle Eastern country is going to put in place a government that is friendly to our country or our primary ally, Israel.

We supported democracy in Iran.

Remember McCain telling Obama that he needs to do more to support the Iranian uprising last year?

THEN Obama wanted to stay out of it and let the situation play-out without US interference. NOW he's pushing Mubarak out with both feet. Neither side in this nation knows what it wants when it comes to democracy in the Middle East, so why not leave it alone and let the Middle East be the Middle East.



Are you asking what is the difference between Bush's policy on Iraq and Obama's policy on Egypt? Seriously? If you were to ask what the difference between Obama and Bush's policy on Iraq, I'd say barely anything.

But come on. We are not nation building in Egypt. We are not occupying Egypt. We don't have a right to stop people from ousting their own President. That's their business.

We've got some serious idiots currently running our government and we're powerless to stop them from screwing the pooch. What they're doing today will effect our lives for decades to come. It could mean the deaths of thousands of Israelis.

Seriously we don't have a CLUE who will be running Egypt over the next few years and you already are declaring the death of Israel and blaming it on Obama. That's fucking rediculous. Mubarak can clamp down power now, but what good will it do to have angered the protestors even more? I would love to see a stable Egypt, but I sympathize greatly with those who just can't sit under Mubarak's dictatorship anymore. Americans wouldn't take a 30 year dictatorship or a three year dictatorship, or a two day dictatorship. So why should Egyptians?

Mubarak blamed it on Obama.

Did you even know up until 20 days ago that Egypt was such a mess??? Did you know who the Muslim Brotherhood was before then???

Aren't you uncomfortable with our president being so friendly with the Muslim Brotherhood??? Isn't it a problem to you that Obama has taken such an active role in the Egyptian revolution?????

Don't you question anything??????

That whole region is a mess, and yes I've been well aware of Egypt's economy going down the drain for months and populist anger growing. I couldn't have predicted this though. As for the Muslim Brotherhood, you can really piss off. You're not talking to some rainbow coalition liberal, I'm in no way comfortable with any president being "friendly" with any terrorist organization. I'm also not comfortable with any president being "friendly" with any authoritarian dictatorship that's over-stayed it's welcome.

I don't believe we should take ANY involvement the affairs of Egypt, and I disagree with some of the moves Obama has made, but Mubarak is responsible for HIS OWN downfall.

 

[Truthmatters]

When Obama consorts with a group directly tied to terror over the affairs of another nation and publically calls for it's ouster-- it's defending democracy ..

When Boooosh does it, it's a lie and people die. LMAO

Has anyone ever dissected the brain of a liberal?

Why do you refuse to see this has nothing to do with your political gyrations?

This is about the population of a country rising up and heaving out a dictator.

 

[Mr. Peepers]

The US did NOT want democracy in Iraq either. The Bush administration was afraid that the Iraqi people would elect someone who would not allow US bases there nor to let multinationals run roughshod over the Iraqi people (the main goal of the US invasion of Iraq was to set up a free market zone in the middle east who would do our bidding and allow multinationals to exploit the area's resources). We paid lots of money to get our puppet government "elected". The US doesn't care about anything but profit and power. It does NOT care one whit about true democracy.

Start on P.361

The shock doctrine: the rise of ... - Google Books

 

[The T]

When Obama consorts with a group directly tied to terror over the affairs of another nation and publically calls for it's ouster-- it's defending democracy ..

When Boooosh does it, it's a lie and people die. LMAO

Has anyone ever dissected the brain of a liberal?

Why do you refuse to see this has nothing to do with your political gyrations?

This is about the population of a country rising up and heaving out a dictator.

Yeah same thought process about Iran in 1979.

What you fail to see is whom or rather what can and eventually take over.

And they are not friendly toward us at all.

 

[georgephillip]

Let's face it. They hate us. No election in any Middle Eastern country is going to put in place a government that is friendly to our country or our primary ally, Israel.

It also doesn't help that Obama has been actively running this revolution from the White House. They don't want to give the impression this is an American operation but it's getting harder and harder to hide the fact. Guess it just depends on what people are willing to believe.

What's the difference between the kind of government takeover and regime-building Bush did in Iraq and Obama is doing in Egypt?

Why is Egypt of more strategic importance then Iraq is?

We've got some serious idiots currently running our government and we're powerless to stop them from screwing the pooch. What they're doing today will effect our lives for decades to come. It could mean the deaths of thousands of Israelis.

What Does "Leave" Mean?

"L’Etat, C’est moi.” (I am the state.)

King Louis XIV of France

Leave means Get out
Don’t you comprehend?
O Suleiman O Suleiman
You too must leave
Sitting in sitting in
Till the regime is gone
Revolution revolution until victory
Revolution in all Egypt’s streets

Chants by two million Egyptians, Liberation Square, Feb. 10, 2011.

It's Not About You.

It is about Revolution

 

[uptownlivin90]

MUBARAK HAS STEPPED DOWN!!! The military will oversee the nation until September. We should ALL be proud of the human race right now. Peaceful protesters have succeeded in toppling a 30 year long dictatorship.

 

[Dr.Traveler]

Yeah same thought process about Iran in 1979.

What you fail to see is whom or rather what can and eventually take over.

And they are not friendly toward us at all.

Iran in 1979 was a mess we started. Do some research into CIA involvement in Iran. It's no surprise the average Iranian believes the US and Iran have been at war since the 1950's.

As to the second point, what's the solution? Invade and install dictatorships all over the world? Ratchet up taxes and Federal Power to ensure we have the means to support puppet governments all over the world?

Part of being small government and pro-liberty is allowing other people to make their own decisions, even if it doesn't meet your best interest. Once you decide to tell large groups of people to act along your own best interests, you're no better than those big government Libs you love to hate.

 

[Mr. Peepers]

Woo hoo! Go Egypt! Good for you and kudos for the (mostly) peaceful uprising of your citizens in order to rid yourselves of a tyrant.

 

[Dr.Traveler]

Woo hoo! Go Egypt! Good for you and kudos for the (mostly) peaceful uprising of your citizens in order to rid yourselves of a tyrant.

I just walked down the hall and told one of my Egyptian students (awesome guy) the news. You should see the smiles that are breaking out. The guy had to go.

 

[Mr. Peepers]

Iran in 1979 was a mess we started. Do some research into CIA involvement in Iran. It's no surprise the average Iranian believes the US and Iran have been at war since the 1950's.

It's funny how the "pro-democracy" corporatist tend to "forget" these little tidbits of history, yes? They would be wise to pay attention to what we did to help bring the butcher, Pinochet into power as well. Thanks to Milton Friedman, or "satan" as I like to call him...

 

[sangha]

and stand idly by as a million Christians were murdered or chased out of their homeland.

Why are Christians so special that we should care about them especially?

Why should we care about any religious or ethnic group for that matter?

It's pretty clear what makes you tick.

You're a bigot. Back in the 50s racism was popular. Now hatred toward Christians is very popular and you're just in it because you think you can get away with it.

You're despicable.

Xtians are so sinful, they think it's "racist" is you treat them like everyone else. Xtians think they are "so special".

Thats why wingnuts hate democracy. In a democracy, xtians don't get "special" treatment.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Post where I justified the deaths of Americans?? DO IT. SO much for your truthfulness Carb. Is that all you have? To make up shit in order to deflect the nasty truth of your own hypocrisy??

that post wasn't directed at you, you daft cow.

Oooo Carb called me a name.... lol You're a joke.

I've seen your picture. It wasn't a name. It was a description.

 

[georgephillip]

"...Hosni Mubarak remained defiant, still stubbornly refusing to submit to the will of the people, who were coming out by the millions to demand his ouster.

"A day earlier,(Wed. 2/09/11) the leaders of the revolution called for a major escalation with another round of massive protests scheduled for Friday.

"Not only did they ask the people to come to Tahrir Square by the millions, but they also planned to march on state symbols around the country.

"By midnight, the buildings of the Council of Ministers, the People’s Assembly (lower chamber of parliament), the Consultative Assembly (upper chamber), and the Interior Ministry were totally surrounded by thousands of people.

"Prime Minister Ahmad Shafiq could not reach his office that day and had to relocate to the Ministry of Civilian Aviation."

Has Mubarak left Cairo or Egypt?

Egypt's Judgment Day