Deliver Us From Democrats

[rtwngAvngr]

Deliver Us From Democrats
April 7, 2004
Ann Coulter

Sean Hannity's latest book, "Deliver Us From Evil," is even better than his last. It hit No. 1 on the New York Times best-seller list the week it came out and stayed there for at least five weeks. This explains the huge cover story on Hannity in the latest New York Times magazine, as well as that big NPR profile on him – wait, neither of those happened. Indeed, not a single major mainstream newspaper has reviewed it.

read the whole thing...

http://www.anncoulter.org/columns/2004/040704p.htm

 

[DKSuddeth]

while we're at this, someone define to me how communism and socialism are 'evil' instead of just a bad form of government.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by DKSuddeth
while we're at this, someone define to me how communism and socialism are 'evil' instead of just a bad form of government.

Stifling a person's sense of self-reliance and convincing them that government will see to all their needs is, in essence, a destruction of that individual. They are robbed of their own sense of control in their lives and any feelings of competency. Plus income redistribution is more commonly know as stealing. Is stealing ok just cuz the government does it? According to this paradigm stealing could just be called a "grassroots movement toward income redistribution" and it would all be fine and dandy, and that is cool with socialists who think property rights "aren't fair" anyway.

It's a complete denial of individual rights, and a replacement of an individual rights focused justice system with one based on lefty theories of social justice, such as the barbaric and racist affirmative action policy.

Where does the thought that government should be responsible for guaranteeing that equals numbers of all races must be represented in all spheres of life? I guess that thinking is based on the wrong assumption that all differences in population are due to racism. Government should protect individual rights, but trying to engineer certain racial compositions in society is just as sickening as a kkk meeting.

Just some thoughts.

 

[Hobbit]

Okay, I'm of the opinion that Communism is evil, wheras socialism is not, under certain conditions. Here's why.

Communism is a system of government under which each member of society works as much as he is able to and receives what he/she needs from the government. Everything is government property. Two single people of the same age get paid the same, as they both have the same needs. However, if one has a sick mother to care for, he will probably work half as much as the other, eliminating a sense of fairness from the system. It also eliminates any incentive to work hard except as a moral and ethical principle. This system is forced on the people by the government, members of which usually "need more" money than the common people. Communist governments usually force atheism, claiming that it is the natural progression through science. They jail anyone who professes faith in a religion. Unless you are an atheist socialist who believe that a government can completely lack corruption, you will likely find Communism to be oppressive.

Socialism is an economic system in which all people work according to their ability and recieve according to their need. This system is only evil when forced on others. In fact, the early church was socialist, as all members were asked to give up everything they had upon entry, and everything gave was given to those who needed it. I don't believe in socialism, but I think it can work if it is on a voluntary basis.

 

[NewGuy]

I am in agreement with both of the above points on both systems' reasons for being bad or "evil".

The 2 things that I think make them get the definition, though, are:

1. Do they go AGAINST our original Constitutional foundation?

If that is the ultimate authority of our nation, to subvert it by instituting socialism or communism as a whole would be evil. Implanting the pieces individually puts you on a slippery slope when generations go by and people forget their history.

2. What is your faith?

If Communism and or Socialism subdue a faith and yet your faith is your moral compass, there is something wrong. Add to that many faiths claim they have the one true way for salvation. That makes these 2 systems even worse.

Throw in a Christian founded nation with Biblical principals integrated into a Constitution as the nations highest authority, well now you have an evil situation if communism or socialism approach.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by Hobbit
Okay, I'm of the opinion that Communism is evil, wheras socialism is not, under certain conditions. Here's why.

Communism is a system of government under which each member of society works as much as he is able to and receives what he/she needs from the government. Everything is government property. Two single people of the same age get paid the same, as they both have the same needs. However, if one has a sick mother to care for, he will probably work half as much as the other, eliminating a sense of fairness from the system. It also eliminates any incentive to work hard except as a moral and ethical principle. This system is forced on the people by the government, members of which usually "need more" money than the common people. Communist governments usually force atheism, claiming that it is the natural progression through science. They jail anyone who professes faith in a religion. Unless you are an atheist socialist who believe that a government can completely lack corruption, you will likely find Communism to be oppressive.

Socialism is an economic system in which all people work according to their ability and recieve according to their need. This system is only evil when forced on others. In fact, the early church was socialist, as all members were asked to give up everything they had upon entry, and everything gave was given to those who needed it. I don't believe in socialism, but I think it can work if it is on a voluntary basis.

That's the thing about socialism, the producers would not volunteer. And the system would not work if there's no one who is forced into producing for others. It would not work voluntarily, as the whole system is based on parasytizing the producers of society on behalf the deadbeats, albeit legally. The kind of confiscatory tax rates the socialist mob would levee on the producers if unresrained, would amount to a violation of the property and individual rights of those producers.

Socialism is based on a legitimization of the negative emotion of envy.

 

[Hobbit]

Yeah, socialism doesn't work except in a utopia, which, as we all know (or should), means "nowhere." However, if you get together an extremely altruistic group of people who believe in socialism, it can work. As I said, the early Christian church had a socialist system in place and nobody really seemed to complain. The only problem was when Annanias and Saphira (sp?) sold some land and gave only part of it to the church and were struck dead. However, they weren't struck dead for not paying, only for lying about it.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by Hobbit
Yeah, socialism doesn't work except in a utopia, which, as we all know (or should), means "nowhere." However, if you get together an extremely altruistic group of people who believe in socialism, it can work. As I said, the early Christian church had a socialist system in place and nobody really seemed to complain. The only problem was when Annanias and Saphira (sp?) sold some land and gave only part of it to the church and were struck dead. However, they weren't struck dead for not paying, only for lying about it.

If it's completely voluntary. Yeah. And I don't mean a majority of citizens, I mean each individual is asked individually, "DO you want to live under this system?"

 

[DKSuddeth]

Originally posted by rtwngAvngr
If it's completely voluntary. Yeah. And I don't mean a majority of citizens, I mean each individual is asked individually, "DO you want to live under this system?"

agreed here. socialism could only work as long as its 100% voluntary. I don't necessarily see that as evil though.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by DKSuddeth
agreed here. socialism could only work as long as its 100% voluntary. I don't necessarily see that as evil though.

It never is 100% voluntary. Even if in a democratic society, the majority votes to raise taxes to confiscatory level on the rich to pay for their services, this is still the majority ganging up on the minority to take their money. THAT is immoral. I guess if it really was 100% voluntary, I'd have no problem.

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by DKSuddeth
agreed here. socialism could only work as long as its 100% voluntary. I don't necessarily see that as evil though.

That is an impossibility, though.

Why and how would anyone want to give up their potential to practice their chosen faith?

 

[DKSuddeth]

Originally posted by rtwngAvngr
It never is 100% voluntary. Even if in a democratic society, the majority votes to raise taxes to confiscatory level on the rich to pay for their services, this is still the majority ganging up on the minority to take their money. THAT is immoral. I guess if it really was 100% voluntary, I'd have no problem.

well, that also implies that the 100% are willing to produce to their effectiveness as well. its all working for the benefit of all. otherwise, no, its not going to work.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by DKSuddeth
well, that also implies that the 100% are willing to produce to their effectiveness as well. its all working for the benefit of all. otherwise, no, its not going to work.

People don't think this way. It's a quaint dream. And anyone who tells you they think this way, is lying in hopes of being handed reigns of unimaginable power.

 

[Hobbit]

I'm not saying socialism works. The only recorded case of this is in the early Christian church and even they had problems. I'm just saying it's not evil, and NewGuy, socialism has no faith requirements. It is an economic system, pure and simple. Unless you are of the Holy Capitalist Church, socialism doesn't conflict with anyone's faith.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by Hobbit
I'm not saying socialism works. The only recorded case of this is in the early Christian church and even they had problems. I'm just saying it's not evil, and NewGuy, socialism has no faith requirements. It is an economic system, pure and simple. Unless you are of the Holy Capitalist Church, socialism doesn't conflict with anyone's faith.

If it's a socialist system where the majority voted confiscatory tax rates on a minority of producers, it's akin to being robbed by a lynch mob, and as such, is immoral. It's a violation by the state of our god given right to keep what we earn, unless there's a damn good reason.

 

[Hobbit]

It's evil to force anything on anybody, which is why Communism is evil for forcing socialism and atheism on everybody. However, socialism is not evil, as the system does not require anyone to be forced. A group of people living in a commune who all bring home their paychecks and put them in a community pool to be redistributed according to need can and has worked. Nobody's being forced and nothing is evil. While a forced socialist system is like highway robbery, a voluntary socialist system is like giving to charity.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by Hobbit
It's evil to force anything on anybody, which is why Communism is evil for forcing socialism and atheism on everybody. However, socialism is not evil, as the system does not require anyone to be forced. A group of people living in a commune who all bring home their paychecks and put them in a community pool to be redistributed according to need can and has worked. Nobody's being forced and nothing is evil. While a forced socialist system is like highway robbery, a voluntary socialist system is like giving to charity.

Agreed. It's so hard for smart people to agree isn't it? Trying to mingle All the different slightly idiosyncratic thought patterns is fun.

 

[5stringJeff]

Originally posted by Hobbit
It's evil to force anything on anybody, which is why Communism is evil for forcing socialism and atheism on everybody. However, socialism is not evil, as the system does not require anyone to be forced. A group of people living in a commune who all bring home their paychecks and put them in a community pool to be redistributed according to need can and has worked. Nobody's being forced and nothing is evil. While a forced socialist system is like highway robbery, a voluntary socialist system is like giving to charity.

Hobbit, I absolutely agree! Socialism as a form of government is a terrible idea; however, people practice the tenets of socialism on a voluntary basis in many ways. Giving in church comes to mind.

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by gop_jeff
Hobbit, I absolutely agree! Socialism as a form of government is a terrible idea; however, people practice the tenets of socialism on a voluntary basis in many ways. Giving in church comes to mind.

Agreed. I guess the idea of the masses doing this and being able to keep the government in check is an impossibility in my mind and therefore evil by nature.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by gop_jeff
Giving in church comes to mind. [/B]

Even the house of god is riddled through with the communist menace.