Definitive Proof that GOD Exists?

[Hollie]

Again... We have NEVER OBSERVED CONVERGING BLACK HOLES! Now confirmed by your very own source. Thanks for helping refute your own argument! I commend you for the effort!

So every galaxy in the universe has at least one massive black hole sucking everything in... yet somehow, some way, the various and sundry holes will one day converge with each other and consume the entire universe, at which time, heat... all by itself, will defy thermodynamic principles and create an explosion and a new universe, again full of black holes.

And somehow, belief in this crock of shit is considered more valid that an intelligent designer?

Well, YOU obviously believe it more credible or you would not have created a Straw Man to attack.
Thank you!

Ed, for someone with an observatory as an avatar, you seem to be very dumb when it comes to science. I didn't create any straw man but I do think it's more incredible than the theory of an intelligent designer. Why are you having trouble understanding this? Your outdated theory of an expanding and contracting universe is being rethought. This is not new in science, happens all the time. Old theories are replaced by new ones and life goes on, bud.

There have always been problems with the Big Bang theory. As I've pointed out before, even the term "Big Bang" began as a pejorative from those who thought it was a ridiculous theory. The whole "cyclical universe" idea has also been shaky at best, and with the discovery of an accelerating expansion of the universe, is all but dead. Stephen Hawking has written books about this, maybe you should spend more time reading them than arguing 1980s theories on a message board?

For all your nonsensical claims of a magical, supernatural designer, it's remarkable that you Harun Yahya groupies haven't yet merged with the Scientology cranks. A marriage of the silly.

 

[sealybobo]

What does all this prove?

There wasn't nothing. There was "stuff" floating around and it all came together into a really tight ball and then BANG. At least that is the theory. And I remember reading how theists didn't like the big bang theory at first because Stephen Hawkins said something like it proved that there was a time when the big bang happened. So what was happening the billions of years before the big bang? Theists said the universe was always here. Because of the big bang we know that not to be true.

Lets say you are right though. What does any of that prove? The answer is nothing. We don't know. So keep looking. To say "god did it" is not a logical answer that you have proof of, right?

There was "stuff" floating around and it all came together into a really tight ball and then BANG.

I've seen this theory presented repeatedly, although I've never seen evidence to support the theory. In any event, even the most enthusiastic supporter of the theory must contemplate, what made this happen? I assume you understand Newton's Laws of Motion... so by what rationale do you reckon all this "stuff" floating around just up and decided to coalesce into a really tight ball? And what in heaven's name enabled the stuff to suddenly reverse that phenomenon and "bang" the stuff in a totally different direction?

Gravity and heat. Have you ever heard of them? Obviously not.

Gravity draws the "stuff"/mass together which generates heat. As the heat increases with mass eventually a certain critical temperature is reached that causes an explosion. It's really quite elementary.

Gravity doesn't act of it's own volition. All this "stuff" floating around in the universe would have had the same gravitational properties, so what made gravity suddenly decide to pick a universal spot in the cosmos to draw everything else (also with gravity) to one place? Heat, by itself, does not cause an explosion. Something can react with heat to do this, but you've not defined that. Also, when things explode, the velocity is greatest at the point of explosion and because of friction, the velocity decreases over time... the universe is accelerating in expansion.

What is elementary is, none of your argument comports with known science and physics.

Gravity is not dormant until someone suddenly turns it on, that bis just plain stupid. The gravitational force of attraction is constantly active drawing any mass that enters its proximity. Again you show as much ignorance about heat as you do gravity. As mass is drawn into a Black Hole by gravity its heat increases. That heat must build to what is called a "CRITICAL TEMPERATURE" before there is an explosion.

Again, as was explained to you many times, the distant universe is accelerating because it is being pulled by the gravitational force of a universal black hole.

Yea boss! But keep in mind that won't stop him. You can tell him how things happen but then he'll want to know why. And if you can't answer the why, then he'll say this is his proof god exists.

Simply because he doesn't know why the big bang happened is his reason for believing god did it. That's god of the gaps, right?

 

[sealybobo]

Gravity and heat. Have you ever heard of them? Obviously not.

Gravity draws the "stuff"/mass together which generates heat. As the heat increases with mass eventually a certain critical temperature is reached that causes an explosion. It's really quite elementary.

The same person that gave us the understanding of gravity gave us the reason it exists. A higher power. Newton was smarter than we are today.........

The validity of a claim, such as the existence of god, is not governed by the intelligence of the minds which hold it. Evidence and reason are the deciding factors.

The fact that an intelligent person holds an irrational belief is simply evidence that our brains are able to compartmentalize world-views and models from one another, usually in order to maintain a state of ‘ignorant bliss’ and escape the discomfort of cognitive dissonance.

Sir Isaac Newton, one of history’s greatest scientists, was not only intensely religious but also believed in alchemical transmutation. Alchemy is, however, fully incorrect given our modern understanding of chemistry, the atom and nucleosynthysis.

 

[sealybobo]

Again... We have NEVER OBSERVED CONVERGING BLACK HOLES! Now confirmed by your very own source. Thanks for helping refute your own argument! I commend you for the effort!

So every galaxy in the universe has at least one massive black hole sucking everything in... yet somehow, some way, the various and sundry holes will one day converge with each other and consume the entire universe, at which time, heat... all by itself, will defy thermodynamic principles and create an explosion and a new universe, again full of black holes.

And somehow, belief in this crock of shit is considered more valid that an intelligent designer?

Without using facts or science it seemed to our primitive ancestors that there must be an intelligent designer. We admit, even today is is hard to believe that all this just happened by itself.

But so far, there is no solid, hard evidence or proof that a god exists or created us. Until there is, we will just keep looking and hopefully one day we will find out definitively if there is or isn't.

And the big bang is a more plausible scientific explanation than god or an intelligent designer.

People who are sure an intelligent designer created us have stopped looking for answers. They think they have the answers. Maybe they are right? But until science can verify theists claims, we should probably keep looking.

What created our universe?

A. God
B. Nothing
C. Not sure

I say C

 

[Boss]

What created our universe?

A. God
B. Nothing
C. Not sure

I say C

And if you stuck with that, I wouldn't have nearly as much trouble with your views. Problem is, you bounce back and forth between B and C, and reject any possibility of A before admitting A might be possible.

Simply because he doesn't know why the big bang happened is his reason for believing god did it. That's god of the gaps, right?

I have argued spiritual nature did it because physical nature didn't yet exist. Physical science hasn't explained it because physical science can't.

There is no "gap" here. That would imply that science is capable of explaining why, and it can't. Science can only explain how, it never can explain why. Now, accepting that the "why" is answered by God, doesn't dismiss scientific exploration of "how" or attempt to fill any gap.

 

[MisterBeale]

As you can see, the "existence" of something can be physical or nonphysical, or even spiritual. So in order to evaluate the existence of something spiritual, we have to use spiritual evidence, since physical evidence doesn't logically apply.

Not necessarily.

They have scientific papers on this, and other aspects in physics that address this mystery, which conflict with our current epistemological constructions of our assumed history. . . .

These conflicts are just not necessarily being addressed in popular culture, IMO.

. . . soon, I have a feeling, with in the next fifty years, we will have a monumental shift in our understanding of humanity and the cosmos.. . .

The Spiritual Battle For Our Humanity: Transhumanism, DNA, AI & Our Forgotten Past | Gregg Braden​

500,685 views Apr 16, 2024
"New York Times best-selling author and scientist Gregg Braden explains the bridge between science and spirituality and what it reveals about our true nature as humans. Gregg sets the stage by describing the most pressing issue we face as a species right now: the battle for our own humanity. He shares how the innovations in technology and movement towards transhumanism threatens to extinguish the beauty of what it means to be human before we even discover what that means.
This conversation is an intriguing deep dive into that topic, revealing the danger of technology and the divine potential hidden in human DNA.
Gregg also discusses his theory on the true origin of homo sapiens: from debunking the theory of evolution to discovering hidden ancient civilizations. "