Definitive Proof that GOD Exists?

[Delta4Embassy]

We often hear the God-haters chortle... you don't have definitive proof that god exists, therefore, it must be a fallacy. I have often been puzzled by this argument, because it seems to indicate a complete lack of basic comprehension and logic. Many people certainly DO have definitive proof that god exists, that's why they believe in god. You may not be willing to accept their proof, because it is spiritual and not physical, but that's your problem.

You see, we can't expect a spiritual entity to exist in the physical sense, then it would be a physical entity. By it's very nature, God doesn't have to physically exist to exist as a spirit or energy. So the demands for physical proof of a spiritual entity are devoid of logic to begin with. Does a thought exist? You can't see it, there is no physical proof of it's existence, but does it not still exist? How about an inspiration? How about a dream? How about love?

As you can see, the "existence" of something can be physical or nonphysical, or even spiritual. So in order to evaluate the existence of something spiritual, we have to use spiritual evidence, since physical evidence doesn't logically apply. We don't demand spiritual evidence to prove the physical.... if you demonstrate how rain is caused with physical science, and someone says...well God tells me that rain is His tears... what would you say to that? It's backward, mouth-breathing and knuckle-dragging? Right? Well, that is someone applying spiritual evidence to the physical, and rejecting physical evidence. Yes, it's kind of stupid, isn't it? Just as stupid as demanding physical evidence to support a spiritual entity, and rejecting spiritual evidence.

Now to the "definitive proof" part. Since we have now determined that Spiritual evidence is what is needed to prove God's existence, we take you back 70,000 years or so, to the ancient people of Lake Mungo, one of the oldest human civilizations ever discovered. There, they found evidence of ritual burial using red ochre in ceremony. This is important because it signifies presence of spirituality. We can trace this human connection with spirituality all through mankind's history to present day religions. Mankind has always been spiritually connected to something greater than self. Since our very origins.

Perhaps this is where we can interject some relative physical science, from none other than the father of evolution, Mr. Charles Darwin. In his book, Origin of the Species, Darwin points out that behavioral traits which are inherent in a species, exist for some fundamental reason pertaining to the advancement of the species, otherwise they are discarded over time through natural selection. No species of animal we have ever studied, just does something inherently, with no fundamental reason. Salmon swim upstream for a reason. Dogs wag their tails for a reason. We may not understand the reason, but Darwin tells us, there has to be one.

So there you have it, in just a few short paragraphs. Definitive proof that God exists!

Your arguement is flawed by the beginning of the second graph,

"You see, we can't expect a spiritual entity to exist in the physical sense, then it would be a physical entity."

For a spiritual being to manifest physical reality, it must be likewise have physical substance. Futher, if a spiritual being or realm even exists you'd have to be able to prove that empirically which you didn't.

"Does a thought exist? You can't see it, there is no physical proof of it's existence, but does it not still exist? How about an inspiration? How about a dream? How about love? "

Thoughts exist. They're small electrical impulses we can measure with an electroencephalagraph (EEG.)

Without defining and quantifying a spiritual realm actually exists, 'spiritual evidence' doesn't exist either. Least not in any way so you can boast you have definitive proof of it existing. The Bible or any other book does not prove anything other than someone wrote it. The books "Twilight" and "Harry Potter" for example do not prove vampires or wizards exist. Nor does the Bible prove God exists or people can live to be 900. Remeber many people have since written books utilizing a deity. From the Book of Mormon to Scientology. Is the LDS church right about theirclaims because some book says so? Is the universe in fact trillions instead of billions of years old because Scientology says so?

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Here's an example of what some seem to think qualifies as proof of God,

Coming into the R&E group just now, I glanced at the time, 3:16. Further curiousity lies in 'John' being my given name, but not what I go by.

John enters the Religion group at 3:16. ...Ok, a bit curious.

 

[sealybobo]

We often hear the God-haters chortle... you don't have definitive proof that god exists, therefore, it must be a fallacy. I have often been puzzled by this argument, because it seems to indicate a complete lack of basic comprehension and logic. Many people certainly DO have definitive proof that god exists, that's why they believe in god. You may not be willing to accept their proof, because it is spiritual and not physical, but that's your problem.

You see, we can't expect a spiritual entity to exist in the physical sense, then it would be a physical entity. By it's very nature, God doesn't have to physically exist to exist as a spirit or energy. So the demands for physical proof of a spiritual entity are devoid of logic to begin with. Does a thought exist? You can't see it, there is no physical proof of it's existence, but does it not still exist? How about an inspiration? How about a dream? How about love?

As you can see, the "existence" of something can be physical or nonphysical, or even spiritual. So in order to evaluate the existence of something spiritual, we have to use spiritual evidence, since physical evidence doesn't logically apply. We don't demand spiritual evidence to prove the physical.... if you demonstrate how rain is caused with physical science, and someone says...well God tells me that rain is His tears... what would you say to that? It's backward, mouth-breathing and knuckle-dragging? Right? Well, that is someone applying spiritual evidence to the physical, and rejecting physical evidence. Yes, it's kind of stupid, isn't it? Just as stupid as demanding physical evidence to support a spiritual entity, and rejecting spiritual evidence.

Now to the "definitive proof" part. Since we have now determined that Spiritual evidence is what is needed to prove God's existence, we take you back 70,000 years or so, to the ancient people of Lake Mungo, one of the oldest human civilizations ever discovered. There, they found evidence of ritual burial using red ochre in ceremony. This is important because it signifies presence of spirituality. We can trace this human connection with spirituality all through mankind's history to present day religions. Mankind has always been spiritually connected to something greater than self. Since our very origins.

Perhaps this is where we can interject some relative physical science, from none other than the father of evolution, Mr. Charles Darwin. In his book, Origin of the Species, Darwin points out that behavioral traits which are inherent in a species, exist for some fundamental reason pertaining to the advancement of the species, otherwise they are discarded over time through natural selection. No species of animal we have ever studied, just does something inherently, with no fundamental reason. Salmon swim upstream for a reason. Dogs wag their tails for a reason. We may not understand the reason, but Darwin tells us, there has to be one.

So there you have it, in just a few short paragraphs. Definitive proof that God exists!

Weak. Not one argument for god(s) existence doesn't come without some fatal flaw. He talks to you? Can't prove it. He wrote the bible? No he didn't.

I thought this was going to be a good thread but it's just you again with your bullshit theories. I guess if the evidence is good enough for you that's all that counts, right? But science says BULLSHIT. Atheists say BULLSHIT. Even Agnostics need more proof or evidence.

PS. I use to believe in your generic god too. Funny it doesn't bother you that every organized religion is completely made up. That isn't proof to you that the entire premise is possibly made up too? You should admit that you believe because you want to believe, not because you really believe. You choose to believe despite the evidence or lack of evidence.

Next time you create a thread with this title, have some fucking proof please. This is just the same bullshit in your "why do god haters persist thread"

 

[JimBowie1958]

We often hear the God-haters chortle... you don't have definitive proof that god exists, therefore, it must be a fallacy. I have often been puzzled by this argument, because it seems to indicate a complete lack of basic comprehension and logic. Many people certainly DO have definitive proof that god exists, that's why they believe in god. You may not be willing to accept their proof, because it is spiritual and not physical, but that's your problem.

You see, we can't expect a spiritual entity to exist in the physical sense, then it would be a physical entity. By it's very nature, God doesn't have to physically exist to exist as a spirit or energy. So the demands for physical proof of a spiritual entity are devoid of logic to begin with. Does a thought exist? You can't see it, there is no physical proof of it's existence, but does it not still exist? How about an inspiration? How about a dream? How about love?

As you can see, the "existence" of something can be physical or nonphysical, or even spiritual. So in order to evaluate the existence of something spiritual, we have to use spiritual evidence, since physical evidence doesn't logically apply. We don't demand spiritual evidence to prove the physical.... if you demonstrate how rain is caused with physical science, and someone says...well God tells me that rain is His tears... what would you say to that? It's backward, mouth-breathing and knuckle-dragging? Right? Well, that is someone applying spiritual evidence to the physical, and rejecting physical evidence. Yes, it's kind of stupid, isn't it? Just as stupid as demanding physical evidence to support a spiritual entity, and rejecting spiritual evidence.

Now to the "definitive proof" part. Since we have now determined that Spiritual evidence is what is needed to prove God's existence, we take you back 70,000 years or so, to the ancient people of Lake Mungo, one of the oldest human civilizations ever discovered. There, they found evidence of ritual burial using red ochre in ceremony. This is important because it signifies presence of spirituality. We can trace this human connection with spirituality all through mankind's history to present day religions. Mankind has always been spiritually connected to something greater than self. Since our very origins.

Perhaps this is where we can interject some relative physical science, from none other than the father of evolution, Mr. Charles Darwin. In his book, Origin of the Species, Darwin points out that behavioral traits which are inherent in a species, exist for some fundamental reason pertaining to the advancement of the species, otherwise they are discarded over time through natural selection. No species of animal we have ever studied, just does something inherently, with no fundamental reason. Salmon swim upstream for a reason. Dogs wag their tails for a reason. We may not understand the reason, but Darwin tells us, there has to be one.

So there you have it, in just a few short paragraphs. Definitive proof that God exists!

Your arguement is flawed by the beginning of the second graph,

"You see, we can't expect a spiritual entity to exist in the physical sense, then it would be a physical entity."

For a spiritual being to manifest physical reality, it must be likewise have physical substance. Futher, if a spiritual being or realm even exists you'd have to be able to prove that empirically which you didn't.

"Does a thought exist? You can't see it, there is no physical proof of it's existence, but does it not still exist? How about an inspiration? How about a dream? How about love? "

Thoughts exist. They're small electrical impulses we can measure with an electroencephalagraph (EEG.)

Without defining and quantifying a spiritual realm actually exists, 'spiritual evidence' doesn't exist either. Least not in any way so you can boast you have definitive proof of it existing. The Bible or any other book does not prove anything other than someone wrote it. The books "Twilight" and "Harry Potter" for example do not prove vampires or wizards exist. Nor does the Bible prove God exists or people can live to be 900. Remeber many people have since written books utilizing a deity. From the Book of Mormon to Scientology. Is the LDS church right about theirclaims because some book says so? Is the universe in fact trillions instead of billions of years old because Scientology says so?

Kants dichotomy is false; the spiritual and the material often intersect and the noumenal and phenominal have shared objects.

 

[BillyP]

Proof of god? This should be good...

 

[BreezeWood]

Proof of god? This should be good...

you did not notice the thread was over a year old and you were the 4,045 th post ?

Boss deserves a medal for longevity and keeping a subject interesting ....


* Billy, I notice the green bar under your name is half used up - what happens when it reaches the other side - seriously does anyone know (what it means) ?

.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Proof of god? This should be good...

you did not notice the thread was over a year old and you were the 4,045 th post ?

Boss deserves a medal for longevity and keeping a subject interesting ....


* Billy, I notice the green bar under your name is half used up - what happens when it reaches the other side - seriously does anyone know (what it means) ?

.

It means the internet finally shits him out with a huge grunt.

 

[BreezeWood]

Proof of god? This should be good...

you did not notice the thread was over a year old and you were the 4,045 th post ?

Boss deserves a medal for longevity and keeping a subject interesting ....


* Billy, I notice the green bar under your name is half used up - what happens when it reaches the other side - seriously does anyone know (what it means) ?.

It means the internet finally shits him out with a huge grunt.

well Jim, it looks like yours is a little lit as well ...

.

 

[Hollie]

Proof of god? This should be good...

you did not notice the thread was over a year old and you were the 4,045 th post ?

Boss deserves a medal for longevity and keeping a subject interesting ....


* Billy, I notice the green bar under your name is half used up - what happens when it reaches the other side - seriously does anyone know (what it means) ?

.

The thread was never interesting. It was little more than Boss claiming he has communications with the spirit world.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

The thread was never interesting. It was little more than Boss claiming he has communications with the spirit world.

Ya, 4k posts suggest no interest at all.

 

[BillyP]

Proof of god? This should be good...

you did not notice the thread was over a year old and you were the 4,045 th post ?

Boss deserves a medal for longevity and keeping a subject interesting ....


* Billy, I notice the green bar under your name is half used up - what happens when it reaches the other side - seriously does anyone know (what it means) ?

.

I dunno, but I see that yours is full, I can guess what that means.

 

[BillyP]

So after 4k posts, what was the best proof of god? Does anyone remember? Anything better than Bossy proclaiming that god is like electricity? Any solid proof? Anything?

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Kants dichotomy is false; the spiritual and the material often intersect and the noumenal and phenominal have shared objects.

Didn't know it was a thing, but would say it isn't false. If you can't prove something exists, it doesn't 'intersect' with something you can prove exists.

 

[sealybobo]

So after 4k posts, what was the best proof of god? Does anyone remember? Anything better than Bossy proclaiming that god is like electricity? Any solid proof? Anything?

This thread is how everyone should learn about god. Don't brainwash kids when they are babies. I think we can teach kids right and wrong without lying to them, although how many parents have used the santa naughty/nice story on their 3 year olds? Probably a lot. So maybe a little white lie to a kid is something that parents do? Anyways, eventually anyone who has questions should come here and read both sides and maybe even weigh in, ask questions, etc. And we see clearly some people will believe after they've thought it out no matter what like Boss, some will completely believe the Jesus cult, some might go jew or muslim and some might decide like I finally did to go agnostic atheist. I don't know for sure but I'm fairly certain the man stories of god are not real. No miracles done 2000 years ago. Sorry.

I can't imagine anyone going Jew or Muslim. I am amazed that people can be feared/bullshitted into Christianity but at least I get the angle. I don't see the other two's appeal. The Jews actually aren't looking for new members. They don't recruit. But what is the appeal of going Muslim. Can anyone answer that?

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Why does this thread and this argument continue?

There is absolutely no doubt that god does exist - in the minds of those who need for him to exist.

That's really all that matters.

 

[sealybobo]

Why does this thread and this argument continue?

There is absolutely no doubt that god does exist - in the minds of those who need for him to exist.

That's really all that matters.

Who was that lady who killed her kids because Satan was in them?

Do you think humans need a lie or a fairy tale to be happy or good? I don't. I think god is used on people who aren't happy. Sure god gives them comfort but sometimes he also gives them a lot of guilt. And which god(s)? If you were born into the Westboro Baptists clan you'd be preaching at soldiers funerals hollerin about gays.

I know religion(s) do a lot of good too but they sure do a hell of a lot of bad. Couple examples.

a. Prisons are filled with Theists.
b. The Muslims are all god fearing people.

Look what the Pakistani Muslims in Ireland did to 1400 kids.

Sexual Abuse of 1400 Children Unreported Due to Racism Fears mdash Infowars Ireland

 

[sealybobo]

Christians, Muslims and Jews. Think about this. Lets say your daughter is depressed and you've raised her but at 18 she meets a cult leader and he takes her in and she is happy being one of his wives.

This makes her happy. Do you tell her she's following a lie or do you let it go because she's happy?

Any of you. If your kid wants to switch from Christian to Muslim or Jew to Christian, are you going to argue with them or let them follow their own "truth". We all know you are going to passionately explain to them why that religion is bullshit. So we are all atheists. You all just believe in one more god than I do.

 

[Darkwind]

I just tend to use logic, a little faith, and science.

After all, if you know anything about matter and existence, it is that everything is in motion. Even the vibration of the sub-particles of atoms.

Yet, we also know that an object, unless acted upon by an outside force will either stay in motion, or stay at rest.

At the very beginning of time and space....there was nothing. No motion at all.

Then in an instant................................

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Why does this thread and this argument continue?

There is absolutely no doubt that god does exist - in the minds of those who need for him to exist.

That's really all that matters.

Who was that lady who killed her kids because Satan was in them?

Do you think humans need a lie or a fairy tale to be happy or good? I don't. I think god is used on people who aren't happy. Sure god gives them comfort but sometimes he also gives them a lot of guilt. And which god(s)? If you were born into the Westboro Baptists clan you'd be preaching at soldiers funerals hollerin about gays.

I know religion(s) do a lot of good too but they sure do a hell of a lot of bad. Couple examples.

a. Prisons are filled with Theists.
b. The Muslims are all god fearing people.

Look what the Pakistani Muslims in Ireland did to 1400 kids.

Sexual Abuse of 1400 Children Unreported Due to Racism Fears mdash Infowars Ireland

I believe its a shared delusion.

But I also believe that, for the most part, its harmless and it helps people deal with their problems.

To each their own.

How many hundreds of thousands of catholic children have been raped throughout the history of that church?

 

[sealybobo]

I just tend to use logic, a little faith, and science.

everything is in motion.

we also know that an object will either stay in motion, or stay at rest.

At the very beginning of time and space....there was nothing. No motion at all.

Then in an instant................................

What does all this prove?

There wasn't nothing. There was "stuff" floating around and it all came together into a really tight ball and then BANG. At least that is the theory. And I remember reading how theists didn't like the big bang theory at first because Stephen Hawkins said something like it proved that there was a time when the big bang happened. So what was happening the billions of years before the big bang? Theists said the universe was always here. Because of the big bang we know that not to be true.

Lets say you are right though. What does any of that prove? The answer is nothing. We don't know. So keep looking. To say "god did it" is not a logical answer that you have proof of, right?