Deficits With And Without The Iraq War

[Mr. Peepers]

Sometimes, a lesser of 2 evils scenario applies.. sometimes people make a scorecard and weigh candidates against it, and will vote for whomever gets the highest score EVEN if they do not agree with all stances and policies of the candidate they eventually vote for... and various other scenarios and circumstances

And sometimes, you lure the dumb as dirt evangelicals to flock to the polls with wedge issues, real issues & policy problems of the country, be damned. Anyone who voted for Bush in 2000 &/or 2004, is directly responsible for the horrific mess we are in.

 

[DiamondDave]

Sometimes, a lesser of 2 evils scenario applies.. sometimes people make a scorecard and weigh candidates against it, and will vote for whomever gets the highest score EVEN if they do not agree with all stances and policies of the candidate they eventually vote for... and various other scenarios and circumstances

And sometimes, you lure the dumb as dirt evangelicals to flock to the polls with wedge issues, real issues policy problems of the country be damned. Anyone who voted for Bush in 2000 &/or 2004, is directly responsible for the horrific mess we are in.

Nice try at diverting away from the intent of the conversation with unsubstantiated bullshit... be we usually expect as much from a winger such as yourself

 

[DiamondDave]

Yeah.. voting only comes from looking at 1 candidate... not all involved

Sometimes, a lesser of 2 evils scenario applies.. sometimes people make a scorecard and weigh candidates against it, and will vote for whomever gets the highest score EVEN if they do not agree with all stances and policies of the candidate they eventually vote for... and various other scenarios and circumstances

nice try though

Because we all know there were only two candidates running for office in 2000 and 2004. Plus, we all know that Bush was the only candidate running for the GOP nomination in 2000. Instead of making such excuses, own up to your vote.

Nice try though.

Funny... did not vote for Bush in the primary in 2000 (in actuality, back then I was more of a McCain guy).... and probably would not have voted for him if it were not for the opponent being even worse in Gore.... and my vote for Bush in 2004 was more a vote against Kerry than for Bush... and I knew full well that I did not approve of Bush's spending policies... 2008 I was a Thompson guy on the stances, but he was gone by the time my primary was conducted... Did not like how McCain had become, but still liked him on the scorecard WAY more than Obama, and voted for McCain in the general election

I own up completely to my votes... and I have stated all along which candidates I have voted for in any election and for whatever office.... I'll even tell you down to who I vote for for school board this November, if you wish

 

[Mr. Peepers]

Nice try at diverting away from the intent of the conversation with unsubstantiated bullshit... be we usually expect as much from a winger such as yourself

You were saying? This is absolutely relevant. Had Bush not been elected by the dumbasses of this country, the Iraq war would never have existed. We would have focused on Afghanistan and Pakistan like we SHOULD HAVE. That's pretty relevant. What's a winger?

Evangelicals Say They Led Charge For the GOP (washingtonpost.com)
Religion and the Presidential Vote - Pew Research Center for the People & the Press

 

[boedicca]

Current deficits are far more impacted by a decline in tax revenues than an any increases in spending.

Absolute Poppcock. The Federal Budget has increased from 30% ($800B) from 2007 to 2010, while tax revenue is down $100B.

Oh really now? Revenues fell from 21% of GDP in 2000...

to about 14% in 2009.

Meanwhile, Federal spending increased from about 20% in 2000 to 25% in 2009.

You need to check learn the difference between relative percentages of GDP and absolute dollars.

The 2007 Federal Budget included $2.8T of expenditures and $2.5T of tax receipts.

The 2010 Federal Budget includes $3.6T of expenditures and $2.4T of tax receipts.

Your implication that somehow we are undertaxed while government spending is dramatically increasing as a percent of GDP is complete balderdash.

 

[boedicca]

Peepers and Modbert = Dumber and Dumberer

The data is from the CBO - official government facts.

You can hyperventilate and prevaricate til the donkeys come home, but that won't change the fact that the Ponzi Scheme of Big Entitlements Now to be paid for by Somebody Else is crashing down all around us.

 

[Modbert]

Funny... did not vote for Bush in the primary in 2000 (in actuality, back then I was more of a McCain guy).... and probably would not have voted for him if it were not for the opponent being even worse in Gore.... and my vote for Bush in 2004 was more a vote against Kerry than for Bush... and I knew full well that I did not approve of Bush's spending policies... 2008 I was a Thompson guy on the stances, but he was gone by the time my primary was conducted... Did not like how McCain had become, but still liked him on the scorecard WAY more than Obama, and voted for McCain in the general election

I own up completely to my votes... and I have stated all along which candidates I have voted for in any election and for whatever office.... I'll even tell you down to who I vote for for school board this November, if you wish

So despite Bush going totally what you stand for supposedly, you threw away your principles for no good reason.

And people wonder why this country is going down the drain.

 

[DiamondDave]

Nice try at diverting away from the intent of the conversation with unsubstantiated bullshit... be we usually expect as much from a winger such as yourself

You were saying? This is absolutely relevant. Had Bush not been elected by the dumbasses of this country, the Iraq war would never have existed. We would have focused on Afghanistan and Pakistan like we SHOULD HAVE. That's pretty relevant. What's a winger?

Evangelicals Say They Led Charge For the GOP (washingtonpost.com)
Religion and the Presidential Vote - Pew Research Center for the People & the Press

These are indeed conclusions from your feelings... your assumption that the Iraq war would not have happened is pure conjecture... your assertion that Bush was elected by "dumbasses" is completely unfounded and unsubstantiated by any smidgen of fact or reality....

And as for a winger... a hyper-partisan, in the far wing of the side of the political spectrum one resides in, one who follows party line without exception, a talking point parrot for the extremist views at the far edge of their side of the political spectrum... clear enough for you?? And yes, you have shown time and time again that you fit that bill

 

[Mr. Peepers]

Peepers and Modbert = Dumber and Dumberer

How do you figure? I believe I supplied sources as to my argument. Can you corporatists just never admit that you were, are and pretty much will always be wrong about this?

 

[Mr. Peepers]

And as for a winger... a hyper-partisan, in the far wing of the side of the political spectrum one resides in, one who follows party line without exception, a talking point parrot for the extremist views at the far edge of their side of the political spectrum... clear enough for you?? And yes, you have shown time and time again that you fit that bill

Actually, that doesn't describe me at all. I have NO party affiliation. I am a registered independent. Whatever... continue with your delusions.

 

[boedicca]

Peepers and Modbert = Dumber and Dumberer

How do you figure. I believe I supplied sources as to my argument. Can you corporatists just never admit that you were, are and pretty much will always be wrong about this?

No you didn't. You misrepresented and twisted information - which in your worldview does qualify as sources. But that doesn't work for rational grown ups.

 

[8537]

You need to check learn the difference between relative percentages of GDP and absolute dollars.

I think I'm fluent enough with the topic, thank you very much. By any measure, % of GDP is the proper metric.

The 2007 Federal Budget included $2.8T of expenditures and $2.5T of tax receipts.

The 2010 Federal Budget includes $3.6T of expenditures and $2.4T of tax receipts.[/QUOTE]

The 2009 actuals (not the budget) saw nominal revenues of 2.105T. <--Bush's last budget.
Meanwhile, on-budget revenues didn't even cover 50% of on-budget expenses in 2009.

The 2000 actuals (not the budget) saw nominal revenues of 2.025T.

After a nine year period, nominal revenues actually declined. I could convert it to real revenues, but the picture would be a lot more ugly.





Your implication that somehow we are undertaxed while government spending is dramatically increasing as a percent of GDP is complete balderdash.[/QUOTE]

 

[DiamondDave]

Funny... did not vote for Bush in the primary in 2000 (in actuality, back then I was more of a McCain guy).... and probably would not have voted for him if it were not for the opponent being even worse in Gore.... and my vote for Bush in 2004 was more a vote against Kerry than for Bush... and I knew full well that I did not approve of Bush's spending policies... 2008 I was a Thompson guy on the stances, but he was gone by the time my primary was conducted... Did not like how McCain had become, but still liked him on the scorecard WAY more than Obama, and voted for McCain in the general election

I own up completely to my votes... and I have stated all along which candidates I have voted for in any election and for whatever office.... I'll even tell you down to who I vote for for school board this November, if you wish

So despite Bush going totally what you stand for supposedly, you threw away your principles for no good reason.

And people wonder why this country is going down the drain.

Nice try.. there are things that Bush DID stand for that I agreed with... the economic spending platform was not one of them...

You see.. my principles are to vote for the candidate that best matches up to my stances on my scorecard... for example, in the most recent election McCain scored favorable on 8 stances out of 20 that I had on my scorecard... Obama scored a whopping ZERO (even worse than Gore or Kerry did on my scorecards for those elections)... unfortunately, as a conservative, I have not had a candidate score a passing grade of 60% in any presidential election since I started choosing my votes in this way... hate to admit that when I was a young and naive 19, I did not look into things as well and just blindly cast a vote for Dukakis... learned the scorecard method as a soldier in 92

 

[Mr. Peepers]

These are indeed conclusions from your feelings... your assumption that the Iraq war would not have happened is pure conjecture...

The Iraq war was being cooked up by Bush as far back as 2000. We all know this now. 9-11 was his "in". Didn't you find it strange that all of a sudden, he turned around and focused on Iraq? Yes, anyone with a brain did.

your assertion that Bush was elected by "dumbasses" is completely unfounded and unsubstantiated by any smidgen of fact or reality....

Yes, they are dumbasses because they voted on wedge issues almost exclusively - to the detriment of everyone. They did not vote for the betterment of the country, only to advance their xtian agenda.

 

[boedicca]

In the grown up world, when cash coming in (I am not going to fall for the propaganda of calling tax receipts revenue) declines, then cash expenses need to be reduced.

Arguing to increase taxes in order to justify out of control spending is nonsense. The actuals underscore the point of how bogus the government budgeting process is - a shell game to gin up expenses with rosy economic outlooks instead of dealing with the overspending problem.

 

[DiamondDave]

And as for a winger... a hyper-partisan, in the far wing of the side of the political spectrum one resides in, one who follows party line without exception, a talking point parrot for the extremist views at the far edge of their side of the political spectrum... clear enough for you?? And yes, you have shown time and time again that you fit that bill

Actually, that doesn't describe me at all. I have NO party affiliation. I am a registered independent. Whatever... continue with your delusions.

You could register as green party for all I care.. your stances continually show you to be far left wing

 

[uscitizen]

What about the cost of caring for disabled Iraq war vets? That is not in the chart.
The cost of replacing equipment?
I guess the rebuilding money and such was not included in the war cost?

 

[DiamondDave]

These are indeed conclusions from your feelings... your assumption that the Iraq war would not have happened is pure conjecture...

The Iraq war was being cooked up by Bush as far back as 2000. We all know this now. 9-11 was his "in". Didn't you find it strange that all of a sudden, he turned around and focused on Iraq? Yes, anyone with a brain did.

your assertion that Bush was elected by "dumbasses" is completely unfounded and unsubstantiated by any smidgen of fact or reality....

Yes, they are dumbasses because they voted on wedge issues almost exclusively - to the detriment of everyone. They did not vote for the betterment of the country, only to advance their xtian agenda.

Again... YOUR PERSONAL feelings and conclusions do not make them fact, peepers

What you have posted is complete, unsubstantiated bullshit

 

[boedicca]

usc,

If that is your theory, prove it with facts.

 

[Mr. Peepers]

No you didn't. You misrepresented and twisted information - which in your worldview does qualify as sources. But that doesn't work for rational grown ups.

You don't see the PEW research study as a valuable opinion? There are millions of websites out there that say the same thing, millions of articles. Do you not REMEMBER the elections of 2000 and 2004? I do. And it was ALL about the evangelical vote.