Deficit Denial?

[PaulS1950]

That's why we have to stop talking about paying off the debt right now.

It's a waste of time. There is absolutely no way we can make a dent in the debt.

What we need to be focused on is the deficits today. Not the debts of yesterday. We could get current deficits under control and at least stabilize things.

Then we won't need to pay down the debts. Time will take care of it for us. We pay off our obligations as they come due and a chunk of the debt will come down on it's own over the next 7-10 years.

The rest will be an opportune victim of inflation.

In 2011 the IRS collected less than 2 trillion dollars in income taxes. (the rest was in social security and other taxes - and oh ... the 2+ trillion that was borrowed) Inflation will never take care of the debt it will remain until it is paid off and we have to keep paying the interest every year. You forget that with inflation anything it does to the debt it also does to the rest of the economy and the interest will go up as our credit rating drops.

In seven to ten years we, as a country, will be bankrupt and there is no way out without paying the debt down and doing so now in a signifigant manner.

 

[ReallyMeow]

Blame whoever you want, I don't give a rats ass where the debt came from, It is time to fix it...
Wake up!!!!!!!!!
And your info is old the debt is 16 trillion not 12......

Thats what I said.

little dated, but still relevant
Why the Republican National Debt is $12 Trillion

heres some more
Daily Kos: The national debt? Republicans built that
GOP Debunked: Obama did not create $5 trillion in new debt - Detroit liberal | Examiner.com

So, are they just bad at math, or is this something deeper?

Starve the beast - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[PaulS1950]

Blame whoever you want, I don't give a rats ass where the debt came from, It is time to fix it...
Wake up!!!!!!!!!
And your info is old the debt is 16 trillion not 12......

Thats what I said.

little dated, but still relevant
Why the Republican National Debt is $12 Trillion

heres some more
Daily Kos: The national debt? Republicans built that
GOP Debunked: Obama did not create $5 trillion in new debt - Detroit liberal | Examiner.com

So, are they just bad at math, or is this something deeper?

Starve the beast - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And why then, is the current administration asking for the debt ceiling to be lifted to 20 trillion dollars. I suppose the GOP secretly took the last 3 trillion fromthe last increase and gave it to corporations to get votes.... Yes, virginia, there is sarchasm in this post.

 

[Underhill]

That's why we have to stop talking about paying off the debt right now.

It's a waste of time. There is absolutely no way we can make a dent in the debt.

What we need to be focused on is the deficits today. Not the debts of yesterday. We could get current deficits under control and at least stabilize things.

Then we won't need to pay down the debts. Time will take care of it for us. We pay off our obligations as they come due and a chunk of the debt will come down on it's own over the next 7-10 years.

The rest will be an opportune victim of inflation.

In 2011 the IRS collected less than 2 trillion dollars in income taxes. (the rest was in social security and other taxes - and oh ... the 2+ trillion that was borrowed) Inflation will never take care of the debt it will remain until it is paid off and we have to keep paying the interest every year. You forget that with inflation anything it does to the debt it also does to the rest of the economy and the interest will go up as our credit rating drops.

In seven to ten years we, as a country, will be bankrupt and there is no way out without paying the debt down and doing so now in a signifigant manner.

You are confusing debt with deficits.

I agree we need to get rid of the deficit. Meaning the current overspending.

But the 16 Trillion in debt isn't going anywhere. To pay it off in the next 10 years would mean cutting all spending by 50% or more. Not going to happen. Ever.

Inflation will certainly help with the debt. Yes we will have the same dollar amount of debt. And yes we will have to pay the interest. But every year that debt exist, the 3% of inflation will mean it's that much easier to pay it off. In 20 years, that debt could easily be worth (in spending power) less than half what it is today.

By then, even if the tax rates stay the same, we should be collection 5-6 Trillion in tax revenue.

 

[PaulS1950]

My point was that if we keep borrowing to cover our spending the debt will be considerably higher and grow much faster than inflation. The spending will rise at least as fast as inflation so we will still have no money to pay the debt - even if we can stop the debt from climbing.

The fact is that the debt will climb to over 20 trillion in the next four years - the administration is asking for it to be raised to 20 trillion now so it may be over 23 trillion in four years.

 

[ReallyMeow]

Because the bush administration left us 1.4t underwater, you cant just turn on prosperity like a light switch. If we want to talk in terms of household economics, the republicans wrecked the car, so not only is there a big bill to repair the damage, but it is also in the shop requiring us to spend money on a rental. Or from a different angle, if you are in the situation where you have drunk your paycheck away, do you pay rent with your credit card or get thrown out on the street?

 

[SFC Ollie]

Because the bush administration left us 1.4t underwater, you cant just turn on prosperity like a light switch. If we want to talk in terms of household economics, the republicans wrecked the car, so not only is there a big bill to repair the damage, but it is also in the shop requiring us to spend money on a rental. Or from a different angle, if you are in the situation where you have drunk your paycheck away, do you pay rent with your credit card or get thrown out on the street?

Yes, It's all Bush's fault. 4 years later and it's still all bush's fault.

Just STFU and fix it or get the hell out of the way..........

I can't believe it's still bush's fault after 4 years you guys are still selling that BS and the uninformed are still buying it......

Fact is that The current administration is doubling down on Bushs debt and getting a pass for doing so.....

 

[PaulS1950]

You do realize that the debt has been increasing almost non-stop for a very long time?
It really doesn't matter which party you point to the debt has been raised by both.
It is now being raised in single digit trillions and before it hits double digit additions we will have a completely broke government. In October of last year it was raise to 16.4 trillion - and now it will be raised to 20 trillion.
This is like having multiple parents staying drunk for a very long time and always charging their bills to your credit card and never paying even the minimum due - because the feds only pay interest on the loan so the amount of the principal continues to grow and never goes down.

As for being thrown out on the street that is exactly what will happen when this pyramid collapses. with no money there is no services, no business, no jobs, no food, no infrastructure, nothing.

Rather than facing the problem our politicians just keep borrowing more and inventing more programs to spend it on. In your example the parents are now using the credit card to buy everything to make you happy and still not making payments.

 

[edthecynic]

You do realize that the debt has been increasing almost non-stop for a very long time?
It really doesn't matter which party you point to the debt has been raised by both.
It is now being raised in single digit trillions and before it hits double digit additions we will have a completely broke government. In October of last year it was raise to 16.4 trillion - and now it will be raised to 20 trillion.
This is like having multiple parents staying drunk for a very long time and always charging their bills to your credit card and never paying even the minimum due - because the feds only pay interest on the loan so the amount of the principal continues to grow and never goes down.

As for being thrown out on the street that is exactly what will happen when this pyramid collapses. with no money there is no services, no business, no jobs, no food, no infrastructure, nothing.

Rather than facing the problem our politicians just keep borrowing more and inventing more programs to spend it on. In your example the parents are now using the credit card to buy everything to make you happy and still not making payments.

We also realize that during this very long time, whenever there was a Republican president like Reagan and Bush I we were told deficits don't matter, but as soon as a Democrat was elected like Clinton deficits suddenly became generational theft. Once another Republican was elected like Bush II deficits no longer mattered again, at least until the next Democrat like Obama was elected.

CON$ have no credibility when deficits only matter when Democrats are president.

"Reagan proved deficits don't matter."
Dick Cheney

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

You do realize that the debt has been increasing almost non-stop for a very long time?
It really doesn't matter which party you point to the debt has been raised by both.
It is now being raised in single digit trillions and before it hits double digit additions we will have a completely broke government. In October of last year it was raise to 16.4 trillion - and now it will be raised to 20 trillion.
This is like having multiple parents staying drunk for a very long time and always charging their bills to your credit card and never paying even the minimum due - because the feds only pay interest on the loan so the amount of the principal continues to grow and never goes down.

As for being thrown out on the street that is exactly what will happen when this pyramid collapses. with no money there is no services, no business, no jobs, no food, no infrastructure, nothing.

Rather than facing the problem our politicians just keep borrowing more and inventing more programs to spend it on. In your example the parents are now using the credit card to buy everything to make you happy and still not making payments.

We also realize that during this very long time, whenever there was a Republican president like Reagan and Bush I we were told deficits don't matter, but as soon as a Democrat was elected like Clinton deficits suddenly became generational theft. Once another Republican was elected deficits no longer mattered again, at least until the next Democrat like Obama was elected.

CON$ have no credibility when deficits only matter when Democrats are president.

"Reagan proved deficits don't matter."
Dick Cheney

We also realize that during this very long time, whenever there was a Republican president like Reagan and Bush I we were told deficits don't matter

I've never said that.

Bush spent and borrowed way too much.

Obama is much, much worse than Bush, in those regards.

 

[SFC Ollie]

At some point we all must wake up and look and realize that enough is enough and it has to stop...Both sides are guilty of the spending and it will take both sides to fix it.

I don't see anything from any of them where they seriously give a rat's ass.......

 

[PaulS1950]

You are right on both counts! It will take, at the very least, generations to fix it. and it could all be ruined by one bad apple.

 

[ReallyMeow]

Because the bush administration left us 1.4t underwater, you cant just turn on prosperity like a light switch. If we want to talk in terms of household economics, the republicans wrecked the car, so not only is there a big bill to repair the damage, but it is also in the shop requiring us to spend money on a rental. Or from a different angle, if you are in the situation where you have drunk your paycheck away, do you pay rent with your credit card or get thrown out on the street?

Yes, It's all Bush's fault. 4 years later and it's still all bush's fault.
I can't believe it's still bush's fault after 4 years you guys are still selling that BS and the uninformed are still buying it......
Fact is that The current administration is doubling down on Bushs debt and getting a pass for doing so.....

Of course bush still retains responsibility for his actions after 4 years, this will still be bush's fault after 400 years. Maybe the lesson will stick this time? Its only the same exact same toxic recipe that produced the great depression (low taxes on the rich producing an excess of wealth at the top, saturating the investment market making it prone to bubbles and cons; and a lack of regulation on said market, exacerbating said fraud)

Just STFU and fix it or get the hell out of the way..........

Seems like its the republicans who need to get out of the way
http://republicanjobcreation.com/2012.html

 

[Underhill]

My point was that if we keep borrowing to cover our spending the debt will be considerably higher and grow much faster than inflation. The spending will rise at least as fast as inflation so we will still have no money to pay the debt - even if we can stop the debt from climbing.

The fact is that the debt will climb to over 20 trillion in the next four years - the administration is asking for it to be raised to 20 trillion now so it may be over 23 trillion in four years.

Yep, and until we get out of this recession there isn't much to be done about it.

Every time we cut spending, it means lost jobs, which equates to lost revenue which takes us right back where we started.

We have to have hiring back to the levels they were pre 2008 to have any hope of balancing things. Otherwise we could just end up in free fall like Spain.

 

[SFC Ollie]

But we have been told the recession ended 4 years ago.....

And think about it, for 6 years of Bush things went pretty well, though he spent too much, unemployment was basically around 5%. Then the Democrats took over congress and we dropped straight into the great recession. But they had no part of that, can't blame any of them........

Facts are a real bitch sometimes, and the fact is that under this administration we have had the worst and slowest recovery in history.

So once again, fix it or get out of the way. The deficit must be zero and we have to pay something on the debt, every year...... A good start might even be with having a budget for the first time in 4 years....

 

[edthecynic]

But we have been told the recession ended 4 years ago.....

And think about it, for 6 years of Bush things went pretty well, though he spent too much, unemployment was basically around 5%. Then the Democrats took over congress and we dropped straight into the great recession. But they had no part of that, can't blame any of them........

Facts are a real bitch sometimes, and the fact is that under this administration we have had the worst and slowest recovery in history.

So once again, fix it or get out of the way. The deficit must be zero and we have to pay something on the debt, every year...... A good start might even be with having a budget for the first time in 4 years....

Fact is Bush had his veto pen and the GOP senate had their filibuster. There was nothing that the Dems could do without Bush's full and complete approval. If you remember the Dems could not even pass an increase in the minimum wage without giving Bush more tax cuts!! Tax cuts that put us further in debt, but the powerless Bush is not responsible for anything HE did after the Dems were elected, or even before for that matter.

 

[eflatminor]

Are you concerned about never-ending trillion dollar deficits? If so, what can or should be done about them?

Require the federal government to live within the confines of the enumerated powers in the Constitution. We bring in PLENTY of tax revenues to fund that. Anything else is up to states to fund or not.

 

[SFC Ollie]

But we have been told the recession ended 4 years ago.....

And think about it, for 6 years of Bush things went pretty well, though he spent too much, unemployment was basically around 5%. Then the Democrats took over congress and we dropped straight into the great recession. But they had no part of that, can't blame any of them........

Facts are a real bitch sometimes, and the fact is that under this administration we have had the worst and slowest recovery in history.

So once again, fix it or get out of the way. The deficit must be zero and we have to pay something on the debt, every year...... A good start might even be with having a budget for the first time in 4 years....

Fact is Bush had his veto pen and the GOP senate had their filibuster. There was nothing that the Dems could do without Bush's full and complete approval. If you remember the Dems could not even pass an increase in the minimum wage without giving Bush more tax cuts!! Tax cuts that put us further in debt, but the powerless Bush is not responsible for anything HE did after the Dems were elected, or even before for that matter.

Actually If you were to pay attention you would find that I have stated many times that both sides are to blame..... But i do get so tired of hearing it's Bush's fault......

Bush spent too much and Obama is trying his best to double down on that......

It is past time to stop the wild ass spending and end all deficits........ And i don't give a shit what party does it......

 

[edthecynic]

But we have been told the recession ended 4 years ago.....

And think about it, for 6 years of Bush things went pretty well, though he spent too much, unemployment was basically around 5%. Then the Democrats took over congress and we dropped straight into the great recession. But they had no part of that, can't blame any of them........

Facts are a real bitch sometimes, and the fact is that under this administration we have had the worst and slowest recovery in history.

So once again, fix it or get out of the way. The deficit must be zero and we have to pay something on the debt, every year...... A good start might even be with having a budget for the first time in 4 years....

Fact is Bush had his veto pen and the GOP senate had their filibuster. There was nothing that the Dems could do without Bush's full and complete approval. If you remember the Dems could not even pass an increase in the minimum wage without giving Bush more tax cuts!! Tax cuts that put us further in debt, but the powerless Bush is not responsible for anything HE did after the Dems were elected, or even before for that matter.

Actually If you were to pay attention you would find that I have stated many times that both sides are to blame..... But i do get so tired of hearing it's Bush's fault......

Bush spent too much and Obama is trying his best to double down on that......

It is past time to stop the wild ass spending and end all deficits........ And i don't give a shit what party does it......

No offense, but saying that things were great for Bush's first 6 years and then the Dems were elected and we fell into a great recession hardly sounds like you are blaming both sides. As I said earlier, it is hard to take the Right's concern about the deficit very seriously since they are only upset about it when the Dems have the presidency. When the GOP have the presidency we are told that "Reagan PROVED that deficits don't matter."

Most of Obama's deficit spending is interest on the GOP National Debt he inherited when he entered office and Bush cary-overs like two wars and their continuing medical costs, the unfunded Medicare Pard D, etc.

You may not like it, unless you want the economy not to recover, but now is not the time to make spending cuts. Once the economy fully recovers it will be time for spending cuts.

 

[SFC Ollie]

Fact is Bush had his veto pen and the GOP senate had their filibuster. There was nothing that the Dems could do without Bush's full and complete approval. If you remember the Dems could not even pass an increase in the minimum wage without giving Bush more tax cuts!! Tax cuts that put us further in debt, but the powerless Bush is not responsible for anything HE did after the Dems were elected, or even before for that matter.

Actually If you were to pay attention you would find that I have stated many times that both sides are to blame..... But i do get so tired of hearing it's Bush's fault......

Bush spent too much and Obama is trying his best to double down on that......

It is past time to stop the wild ass spending and end all deficits........ And i don't give a shit what party does it......

No offense, but saying that things were great for Bush's first 6 years and then the Dems were elected and we fell into a great recession hardly sounds like you are blaming both sides. As I said earlier, it is hard to take the Right's concern about the deficit very seriously since they are only upset about it when the Dems have the presidency. When the GOP have the presidency we are told that "Reagan PROVED that deficits don't matter."

Most of Obama's deficit spending is interest on the GOP National Debt he inherited when he entered office and Bush cary-overs like two wars and their continuing medical costs, the unfunded Medicare Pard D, etc.

You may not like it, unless you want the economy not to recover, but now is not the time to make spending cuts. Once the economy fully recovers it will be time for spending cuts.

I have serious doubts that the path we are on will give us a full recovery...... And in the mean time inflation and the debt get worse and worse. And no one gives a shit.......