Deficit Denial?

[SFC Ollie]

The repub party declared the day Obama was elected their primary function would be to make Obama a one term president. They are still trying. Consequently their millions of NO votes became the disastrous campaign against women,The USA and jobs for Americans.
Did Republicans deliberately crash the US economy? | Michael Cohen | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk

Meanwhile the GOP continue their efforts to destroy the USA economy over new economic growth.

Congress in general has ways to reduce obligations that are safe and would not endanger the recovery.

1. Recall the $1.6 billion tax rebate from Goldman-Sachs

2. Place all US government employees and Vets on Medicare for ALL Single Payer Insurance = about $250 billion annual savings

3. Stop the war thus halting the numbers of disabled vets = trillions of tax $$$$$$ savings

4. Cut off special interesting financing of all elections = trillions of tax $$$$$$ savings

5. Stop forcing taxpayers to guarantee construction costs of nuke and coal power plants = billions of tax $$$$$ savings

6. Stop forcing taxpayers to be the insurance arm for coal and nuke power plants

Plus 10 other reasonable,prudent and fiscally responsible options:
10 Ways to Avoid the Fiscal Cliff | Mother Jones

1. Recall the $1.6 billion tax rebate from Goldman-Sachs

Neither source had any detail about this.

3. Stop the war thus halting the numbers of disabled vets = trillions of tax $$$$$$ savings

Didn't Obama already do this?

4. Cut off special interesting financing of all elections = trillions of tax $$$$$$ savings

Huh?

5. Stop forcing taxpayers to guarantee construction costs of nuke and coal power plants = billions of tax $$$$$ savings

When is the last time we built a nuke plant in this country?

Tell you what would save real money, now, end the ethanol mandate.
End all "green energy" boondogles.
Open up drilling in ANWR. Stop trying to kill fracking and drilling in the gulf.
Start sunsetting ridiculous regulations instead on constantly piling on new ones.
End the sugar tariffs and import restrictions.
End boutique gasoline blend requirements.

I agree with some of that, but fracking is a dangerous process. I live 20 miles from the fracking sites in North Western PA, where people can turn on their water faucet and set it on fire...

And when it comes to domestic drilling, I am diametrically apposed to it.

In fact, I would say we should stop all drilling if we really want what is best for our countries long term health. And it has nothing to do with green initiatives (as I think we will end up drilling in all these places eventually anyway).

But import all our oil. Let the rest of the world diminish their reserves. Then our oil will be worth exponentially more. Why force the issue now? It's like pulling money out of your 401k. It will be worth much more later if we don't.

And we really don't need it. It will have a negligible impact on anything if we drill now. That may not be the case if we keep those reserves available in the future.

My Great Uncle used to show us his burning water when we were kids 50+ years ago...And there was no Fracking going on....

And if we had started drilling the way we should have 40 Years ago those places that get our money and hate us at the same time would not be so powerful today and our economy would be booming still.... Drill here, Drill now......

 

[Underhill]

1. Recall the $1.6 billion tax rebate from Goldman-Sachs

Neither source had any detail about this.

3. Stop the war thus halting the numbers of disabled vets = trillions of tax $$$$$$ savings

Didn't Obama already do this?

4. Cut off special interesting financing of all elections = trillions of tax $$$$$$ savings

Huh?

5. Stop forcing taxpayers to guarantee construction costs of nuke and coal power plants = billions of tax $$$$$ savings

When is the last time we built a nuke plant in this country?

Tell you what would save real money, now, end the ethanol mandate.
End all "green energy" boondogles.
Open up drilling in ANWR. Stop trying to kill fracking and drilling in the gulf.
Start sunsetting ridiculous regulations instead on constantly piling on new ones.
End the sugar tariffs and import restrictions.
End boutique gasoline blend requirements.

I agree with some of that, but fracking is a dangerous process. I live 20 miles from the fracking sites in North Western PA, where people can turn on their water faucet and set it on fire...

And when it comes to domestic drilling, I am diametrically apposed to it.

In fact, I would say we should stop all drilling if we really want what is best for our countries long term health. And it has nothing to do with green initiatives (as I think we will end up drilling in all these places eventually anyway).

But import all our oil. Let the rest of the world diminish their reserves. Then our oil will be worth exponentially more. Why force the issue now? It's like pulling money out of your 401k. It will be worth much more later if we don't.

And we really don't need it. It will have a negligible impact on anything if we drill now. That may not be the case if we keep those reserves available in the future.

My Great Uncle used to show us his burning water when we were kids 50+ years ago...And there was no Fracking going on....

And if we had started drilling the way we should have 40 Years ago those places that get our money and hate us at the same time would not be so powerful today and our economy would be booming still.... Drill here, Drill now......

Well, it sounds like you may be getting your way. But I doubt it will have the outcome you think it will...

U.S. To Become World's Biggest Oil Producer - But Hold The Applause - Forbes

And it looks like Forbes agrees with me.

"Further, let’s get realistic about how much oil we have compared to Saudi Arabia. The faster we pump it, the faster it will be gone. According to the EIA, Saudi production was more than 11 million barrels per day in 2011, about five times its domestic consumption. Estimates of Saudi reserves vary widely, but EIA says 262 billion barrels.

The U.S. is up there in terms of production, with 10 million barrels per day in 2011, but in that same year we consumed more than 18 million barrels per day. We haven’t lost our collective appetite for the stuff (right). Oil is traded internationally, and our net deficit in terms of imported oil was more than 8 million barrels daily. But EIA’s latest analysis leaves a big blank when it comes to proven oil reserves for the U.S. The agency’s estimate at the end of 2010 was 25 billion barrels — a 10th that of Saudi Arabia."

In the long run it won't change anything. In fact it may make our position weaker than it currently is.

Right now, if the taps were turned off in the middle east, we have reserves we can go into. If we crank up production, as we are, then those reserves will dwindle, leaving us at the mercy of other countries long term.

And we will always need oil. Maybe not in the quantities we use today, but it will always be important for manufacturing and transportation.

Oh and the burning water...

The one woman I know with contaminated water lives in a house with a well that pumped out clean good water for over 70 years. And within months of fracking moving into the area, her water (and most of her neighbors) is now filled with chemicals, not to mention flammable.

I have gas and oil in the shale under my property. The ground water bubbles up in rainbow colors whenever it rains. But my wells are good. I sure as hell don't want them fracking in my area.

 

[jwoodie]

Yeah, that Fannie and Freddie scam was awful. Cost us over $125 billion in taxpayer money so far. Damn Republicans. Oh, wait, that was the Democrats, never mind.

no, you were right, it was bush.
President Bush Signs American Dream Downpayment Act of 2003

or more accurately the republicans attitude of weak oversight that let banks run amok, taking piles of garbage, and dividing it into traunches so that it could be sold as triple A.

The Subprime Mortgage Primer

http://www.hsgac.senate.gov//imo/media/doc/Financial_Crisis/FinancialCrisisReport.pdf?attempt=2

There really is no such thing as the Bush tax cut for the very wealthy.
All tax payers received a tax cut.The middle class as well.
The proof of this comes from Obama and the Dems themselves.
Just recently the Libs were bitching if the recent extension of the Bush tax cuts were to go away the Middle class would lose the benefit of .....you guessed it kiddies.
The Bush tax cut...

One for me and a million for you isnt exactly a square deal. Im not sure why you are so gung ho to crush the working class with taxes, but the rich can afford to pay for the services America provides them, which allow them to create their wealth.

This GOP ENTITLEMENT - Over half of that amount had been created by Bush’s tax cuts for the very wealthy.[/B]
That's an interesting claim. You have any proof?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9G8XREyG0Q]Why Obama Now - YouTube[/ame]

Borrow from Peter to pay Paul? That's part of what got us into this.....
Stop spending more than we take in..... We have a spending problem.......

What revisions to our spending policy are you advocating?

Just suspend COLA's until the budget is balanced. Why keep adding fuel to the fire?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Yeah, that Fannie and Freddie scam was awful. Cost us over $125 billion in taxpayer money so far. Damn Republicans. Oh, wait, that was the Democrats, never mind.

no, you were right, it was bush.
President Bush Signs American Dream Downpayment Act of 2003

or more accurately the republicans attitude of weak oversight that let banks run amok, taking piles of garbage, and dividing it into traunches so that it could be sold as triple A.

The Subprime Mortgage Primer

http://www.hsgac.senate.gov//imo/media/doc/Financial_Crisis/FinancialCrisisReport.pdf?attempt=2

There really is no such thing as the Bush tax cut for the very wealthy.
All tax payers received a tax cut.The middle class as well.
The proof of this comes from Obama and the Dems themselves.
Just recently the Libs were bitching if the recent extension of the Bush tax cuts were to go away the Middle class would lose the benefit of .....you guessed it kiddies.
The Bush tax cut...

One for me and a million for you isnt exactly a square deal. Im not sure why you are so gung ho to crush the working class with taxes, but the rich can afford to pay for the services America provides them, which allow them to create their wealth.

This GOP ENTITLEMENT - Over half of that amount had been created by Bush’s tax cuts for the very wealthy.[/B]
That's an interesting claim. You have any proof?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9G8XREyG0Q]Why Obama Now - YouTube[/ame]

Borrow from Peter to pay Paul? That's part of what got us into this.....
Stop spending more than we take in..... We have a spending problem.......

What revisions to our spending policy are you advocating?

no, you were right, it was bush.

No, Fannie and Freddie were the Dems.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

The repub party declared the day Obama was elected their primary function would be to make Obama a one term president. They are still trying. Consequently their millions of NO votes became the disastrous campaign against women,The USA and jobs for Americans.
Did Republicans deliberately crash the US economy? | Michael Cohen | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk

Meanwhile the GOP continue their efforts to destroy the USA economy over new economic growth.

Congress in general has ways to reduce obligations that are safe and would not endanger the recovery.

1. Recall the $1.6 billion tax rebate from Goldman-Sachs

2. Place all US government employees and Vets on Medicare for ALL Single Payer Insurance = about $250 billion annual savings

3. Stop the war thus halting the numbers of disabled vets = trillions of tax $$$$$$ savings

4. Cut off special interesting financing of all elections = trillions of tax $$$$$$ savings

5. Stop forcing taxpayers to guarantee construction costs of nuke and coal power plants = billions of tax $$$$$ savings

6. Stop forcing taxpayers to be the insurance arm for coal and nuke power plants

Plus 10 other reasonable,prudent and fiscally responsible options:
10 Ways to Avoid the Fiscal Cliff | Mother Jones

1. Recall the $1.6 billion tax rebate from Goldman-Sachs

Neither source had any detail about this.

3. Stop the war thus halting the numbers of disabled vets = trillions of tax $$$$$$ savings

Didn't Obama already do this?

4. Cut off special interesting financing of all elections = trillions of tax $$$$$$ savings

Huh?

5. Stop forcing taxpayers to guarantee construction costs of nuke and coal power plants = billions of tax $$$$$ savings

When is the last time we built a nuke plant in this country?

Tell you what would save real money, now, end the ethanol mandate.
End all "green energy" boondogles.
Open up drilling in ANWR. Stop trying to kill fracking and drilling in the gulf.
Start sunsetting ridiculous regulations instead on constantly piling on new ones.
End the sugar tariffs and import restrictions.
End boutique gasoline blend requirements.

I agree with some of that, but fracking is a dangerous process. I live 20 miles from the fracking sites in North Western PA, where people can turn on their water faucet and set it on fire...

And when it comes to domestic drilling, I am diametrically apposed to it.

In fact, I would say we should stop all drilling if we really want what is best for our countries long term health. And it has nothing to do with green initiatives (as I think we will end up drilling in all these places eventually anyway).

But import all our oil. Let the rest of the world diminish their reserves. Then our oil will be worth exponentially more. Why force the issue now? It's like pulling money out of your 401k. It will be worth much more later if we don't.

And we really don't need it. It will have a negligible impact on anything if we drill now. That may not be the case if we keep those reserves available in the future.

I live 20 miles from the fracking sites in North Western PA, where people can turn on their water faucet and set it on fire...

Yeah, they could do that before fracking. I've never seen a proven case where that was caused by fracking.

And when it comes to domestic drilling, I am diametrically apposed to it.

Right, why would we want to help our economy or get cheap energy?

Why force the issue now?

We need jobs, money and cheap energy now.

And we really don't need it.

LOL! You're funny.

It will have a negligible impact on anything if we drill now.

Fracking cut the price of natural gas, a lot.
You're not silly, you're stupid.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

I agree with some of that, but fracking is a dangerous process. I live 20 miles from the fracking sites in North Western PA, where people can turn on their water faucet and set it on fire...

And when it comes to domestic drilling, I am diametrically apposed to it.

In fact, I would say we should stop all drilling if we really want what is best for our countries long term health. And it has nothing to do with green initiatives (as I think we will end up drilling in all these places eventually anyway).

But import all our oil. Let the rest of the world diminish their reserves. Then our oil will be worth exponentially more. Why force the issue now? It's like pulling money out of your 401k. It will be worth much more later if we don't.

And we really don't need it. It will have a negligible impact on anything if we drill now. That may not be the case if we keep those reserves available in the future.

My Great Uncle used to show us his burning water when we were kids 50+ years ago...And there was no Fracking going on....

And if we had started drilling the way we should have 40 Years ago those places that get our money and hate us at the same time would not be so powerful today and our economy would be booming still.... Drill here, Drill now......

Well, it sounds like you may be getting your way. But I doubt it will have the outcome you think it will...

U.S. To Become World's Biggest Oil Producer - But Hold The Applause - Forbes

And it looks like Forbes agrees with me.

"Further, let’s get realistic about how much oil we have compared to Saudi Arabia. The faster we pump it, the faster it will be gone. According to the EIA, Saudi production was more than 11 million barrels per day in 2011, about five times its domestic consumption. Estimates of Saudi reserves vary widely, but EIA says 262 billion barrels.

The U.S. is up there in terms of production, with 10 million barrels per day in 2011, but in that same year we consumed more than 18 million barrels per day. We haven’t lost our collective appetite for the stuff (right). Oil is traded internationally, and our net deficit in terms of imported oil was more than 8 million barrels daily. But EIA’s latest analysis leaves a big blank when it comes to proven oil reserves for the U.S. The agency’s estimate at the end of 2010 was 25 billion barrels — a 10th that of Saudi Arabia."

In the long run it won't change anything. In fact it may make our position weaker than it currently is.

Right now, if the taps were turned off in the middle east, we have reserves we can go into. If we crank up production, as we are, then those reserves will dwindle, leaving us at the mercy of other countries long term.

And we will always need oil. Maybe not in the quantities we use today, but it will always be important for manufacturing and transportation.

Oh and the burning water...

The one woman I know with contaminated water lives in a house with a well that pumped out clean good water for over 70 years. And within months of fracking moving into the area, her water (and most of her neighbors) is now filled with chemicals, not to mention flammable.

I have gas and oil in the shale under my property. The ground water bubbles up in rainbow colors whenever it rains. But my wells are good. I sure as hell don't want them fracking in my area.

Love your Forbes "source"

By Jim Motavalli, Mother Nature Network

LOL!

 

[oldfart]

In fact, by the time the second Bush left office, the national debt had grown to $12.1 trillion:

This GOP ENTITLEMENT - Over half of that amount had been created by Bush’s tax cuts for the very wealthy.

That's an interesting claim. You have any proof?

I suppose you know how to look up economic statistics. If you do, why don't you do so rather than badger people to look them up for you? If yo truly don't know where to find this kind of information, let me know and I'll give you the directions.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

In fact, by the time the second Bush left office, the national debt had grown to $12.1 trillion:

This GOP ENTITLEMENT - Over half of that amount had been created by Bush’s tax cuts for the very wealthy.

That's an interesting claim. You have any proof?

I suppose you know how to look up economic statistics. If you do, why don't you do so rather than badger people to look them up for you? If yo truly don't know where to find this kind of information, let me know and I'll give you the directions.

I suppose you know how to look up economic statistics.

I do! I'm not as good at looking up numbers that somebody made up out of whole cloth.

If you do, why don't you do so rather than badger people to look them up for you?

I don't want anyone to look up numbers for me, merely provide proof for the claims they made.

 

[SFC Ollie]

Yeah, that Fannie and Freddie scam was awful. Cost us over $125 billion in taxpayer money so far. Damn Republicans. Oh, wait, that was the Democrats, never mind.

no, you were right, it was bush.
President Bush Signs American Dream Downpayment Act of 2003

or more accurately the republicans attitude of weak oversight that let banks run amok, taking piles of garbage, and dividing it into traunches so that it could be sold as triple A.

The Subprime Mortgage Primer

http://www.hsgac.senate.gov//imo/media/doc/Financial_Crisis/FinancialCrisisReport.pdf?attempt=2





One for me and a million for you isnt exactly a square deal. Im not sure why you are so gung ho to crush the working class with taxes, but the rich can afford to pay for the services America provides them, which allow them to create their wealth.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9G8XREyG0Q]Why Obama Now - YouTube[/ame]

Borrow from Peter to pay Paul? That's part of what got us into this.....
Stop spending more than we take in..... We have a spending problem.......

What revisions to our spending policy are you advocating?

Just suspend COLA's until the budget is balanced. Why keep adding fuel to the fire?

You mean like the 2 years in a row we didn't get any COLA? And then the little trick they pulled on Military retirees this year, gave us a COLA and doubled our Copay for prescriptions....I can't speak for all retirees but I'm at a net loss.

Like I said just cut everything by 10% and see where that gets us. At least it's a start.....

 

[SFC Ollie]

In fact, by the time the second Bush left office, the national debt had grown to $12.1 trillion:

This GOP ENTITLEMENT - Over half of that amount had been created by Bush’s tax cuts for the very wealthy.

That's an interesting claim. You have any proof?

I suppose you know how to look up economic statistics. If you do, why don't you do so rather than badger people to look them up for you? If yo truly don't know where to find this kind of information, let me know and I'll give you the directions.

I suppose you know how to look up economic statistics.

I do! I'm not as good at looking up numbers that somebody made up out of whole cloth.

If you do, why don't you do so rather than badger people to look them up for you?

I don't want anyone to look up numbers for me, merely provide proof for the claims they made.

False claims for certain, which is why no one can prove them..........

 

[merrill]

Some thinking that perhaps should be included when discussing DEFICITS.

PUT 25 MILLION unemployed back to work at no less than $17.50 per hour! Pronto!

3. Sign on to a People's budget

A Peoples Budget does everything this country needs = Smart Economics
* Reduces Debt by $10 trillion
* Creates good-paying jobs
* Fully maintains our social safety net
* Invests in education
* Ends our costly wars
* Closes the tax loopholes that have made offshoring jobs profitable
* Ends oil and gas subsidies that pollute our country at taxpayer expense
* Creates a national infrastructure investment bank to help us make intelligent investments for the future

A fiscally responsible budget represents the future we believe in as Americans.

This is one of those occasions we all hope we'll live to see. We really can make a difference right now if we speak up loudly with one voice.

This fiscally responsible budget represents not just common sense; it represented the will of the American people.

These aren't just words on a page or numbers in a table—these dollars and cents mean lives helped or hurt, people succeeding or falling by the wayside, and families lifted up or dragged down.


--- What this budget does very specifically:

Congressional Progressive Caucus : The People's Budget

The Nation: Obama Should Fight For 'People's Budget' : NPR

While Obama Touts Compromise with GOP, Progressive Lawmakers Unveil "People?s Budget"

Fighting for a People's Budget | The Nation

 

[SFC Ollie]

Some thinking that perhaps should be included when discussing DEFICITS.

PUT 25 MILLION unemployed back to work at no less than $17.50 per hour! Pronto!

3. Sign on to a People's budget

A Peoples Budget does everything this country needs = Smart Economics
* Reduces Debt by $10 trillion
* Creates good-paying jobs
* Fully maintains our social safety net
* Invests in education
* Ends our costly wars
* Closes the tax loopholes that have made offshoring jobs profitable
* Ends oil and gas subsidies that pollute our country at taxpayer expense
* Creates a national infrastructure investment bank to help us make intelligent investments for the future

A fiscally responsible budget represents the future we believe in as Americans.

This is one of those occasions we all hope we'll live to see. We really can make a difference right now if we speak up loudly with one voice.

This fiscally responsible budget represents not just common sense; it represented the will of the American people.

These aren't just words on a page or numbers in a table—these dollars and cents mean lives helped or hurt, people succeeding or falling by the wayside, and families lifted up or dragged down.


--- What this budget does very specifically:

Congressional Progressive Caucus : The People's Budget

The Nation: Obama Should Fight For 'People's Budget' : NPR

While Obama Touts Compromise with GOP, Progressive Lawmakers Unveil "People?s Budget"

Fighting for a People's Budget | The Nation

Couldn't find any further left wing sites trying to make you believe they want to work on the debt?

 

[ReallyMeow]

Budget Overview | The White House
Framework for Deficit Reduction | The White House

 

[auditor0007]

Are you concerned about never-ending trillion dollar deficits? If so, what can or should be done about them? Given our demographic trends, the current debates about taxes and spending reforms are almost laughably inadequate to address the enormity of our impending liabilities. In coming years, we may look back at a deficit of only a trillion dollars with nostalgic fondness.

So what are we to do, if anything? It seems to me that economic growth (jobs) can only take us so far, and rest will result in a massive (30-50%) reduction in our purchasing power. Any thoughts?

Most of our current deficits are due to the bad economy. If we can reduce the growth of military spending and get people back to work, revenues will increase, and some spending will decrease, especially in the form of safety net/welfare payments to those currently not working.

Our big problem is long term and it's all about Medicare and Social Security. Bottom line is that we are eventually going to have to raise the retirement age for both. A lot of people are against this, but this is the most logical solution, and I will be shocked if it doesn't happen. One last thing; this country is going to have an economic boom in about eight years. It's a long way off for those of us struggling right now, but I am predicting boom times ahead. I am basing this all on the fact that the Y Generation, which is 71 million strong, the majority of which are currently between the ages of 20 to 30 years of age. They are just starting to enter their peak purchasing years, which last for about 30 years for most people.

 

[SFC Ollie]

Budget Overview | The White House
Framework for Deficit Reduction | The White House

Lip service, from an administration that is yet to pass a budget, and please, lower the deficit by $4 trillion in 12 years? Really? Now if he said lower the debt by $4 trillion then he would be accomplishing something...

But lowering the deficit just means we won't go into the hole quite as fast.........

 

[ReallyMeow]

I keep hearing not passing a budget, what are the ramifications of this?

What else can you ask for? thats the difference between not having enough to pay your bills and working with your creditors; or simply putting everything on the credit card and spending your rent on scratch off lottery tickets. We have the last 30 years as a track record, most of the national debt is from republican presidents.

little dated, but still relevant
Why the Republican National Debt is $12 Trillion

 

[SFC Ollie]

Blame whoever you want, I don't give a rats ass where the debt came from, It is time to fix it...

Wake up!!!!!!!!!

And your info is old the debt is 16 trillion not 12......

 

[PaulS1950]

The debt is so high now that even a 30% cut in the budget won't have any affect on the debt. It would keep the debt from increasing but we still have to pay more than 45 billion dollars just in interest each year. The first time that we can't make the interest payment the debt comes due.

 

[Underhill]

That's why we have to stop talking about paying off the debt right now.

It's a waste of time. There is absolutely no way we can make a dent in the debt.

What we need to be focused on is the deficits today. Not the debts of yesterday. We could get current deficits under control and at least stabilize things.

Then we won't need to pay down the debts. Time will take care of it for us. We pay off our obligations as they come due and a chunk of the debt will come down on it's own over the next 7-10 years.

The rest will be an opportune victim of inflation.

 

[SFC Ollie]

Unless the deficit ceases to exist then we are not making progress........

Show me that the debt will go down by $10 a year and I'll vote for the people who make it happen.....But stop the debt clock from climbing.......