Declaration of Independence Excerpt.

[Photonic]

That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

Anyone agree/disagree with this?

 

[Blakcat51]

Go Air Force!
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Your quote from the Constitution and the following by Abraham Lincoln, indicate that our nation is in need of a Congress and government dedicated to the cause of the American public. Not to themselves, or their self-serving desires.

The people will save their government, if the government itself will allow them.
Abraham Lincoln

Any people anywhere, being inclined and having the power, have the right to rise up and shake off the existing government and form a new one. This is a most valuable and sacred right -- a right which we hope and believe is to liberate the world.
Abraham Lincoln

We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.
Abraham Lincoln

 

[spectrumc01]

Absolutely agree. It is time for another continental congress. It is time to move our democracy into the present, by reflecting todays needs and challenges. The implamentation of technology could and should move us to a more direct democracy instead of a representative democracy. Representative Democracy was good when it took a great deal of time to travel and communicate, such is not the case today. Technology can put the power where it should always have been, with us the people.

Sorry....Go Army.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

Anyone agree/disagree with this?

I agree and have thought of this many many times over the last 10 years, starting with Bush passing the patriot act and as recent as obama forcing me to buy insurance from a private company to be a citizen in good standing.

 

[LibertyForAll]

I wholeheartedly agree with this.....

 

[FA_Q2]

? what's your grater point?

I think it is pretty clear that the mentioned is a basic truth. Are you going somewhere with this?

 

[bripat9643]

Absolutely agree. It is time for another continental congress. It is time to move our democracy into the present, by reflecting todays needs and challenges. The implamentation of technology could and should move us to a more direct democracy instead of a representative democracy. Representative Democracy was good when it took a great deal of time to travel and communicate, such is not the case today. Technology can put the power where it should always have been, with us the people.

Sorry....Go Army.

We need less democracy, not more.

 

[FA_Q2]

Absolutely agree. It is time for another continental congress. It is time to move our democracy into the present, by reflecting todays needs and challenges. The implamentation of technology could and should move us to a more direct democracy instead of a representative democracy. Representative Democracy was good when it took a great deal of time to travel and communicate, such is not the case today. Technology can put the power where it should always have been, with us the people.

Sorry....Go Army.

Looking at the way people vote - a direct democracy would be a complete disaster. You think it is bad when people vote for the slime that we have now to hold office, just wait to see what would happen if people actually had to look at the bills that were proposed. No one but the select few would read anything and would likely only vote for a bill if they were getting something out of it.

Then you run into the old problem... what do you do when the 51% vote the other 49% into oblivion?

 

[Ringel05]

? what's your grater point?

I think it is pretty clear that the mentioned is a basic truth. Are you going somewhere with this?

My grater has many points, it's what makes it a grater.

 

[spectrumc01]

Absolutely agree. It is time for another continental congress. It is time to move our democracy into the present, by reflecting todays needs and challenges. The implamentation of technology could and should move us to a more direct democracy instead of a representative democracy. Representative Democracy was good when it took a great deal of time to travel and communicate, such is not the case today. Technology can put the power where it should always have been, with us the people.

Sorry....Go Army.

We need less democracy, not more.

Wow...never thought I'd see someone ask for less democracy.

We fought the revolutionary war for the right to govern ourselves.
We fought WW I and WWII in defense of Democracy.
Now you want to tell me these men died for nothing.

 

[peach174]

That is the whole problem.
We no longer have a representative Republic, that is of the people, by the people, for the people.
We have a Government that is completely ignoring the Constitution and has become a Government, of the Government, by the Government and for the Government.

 

[spectrumc01]

Absolutely agree. It is time for another continental congress. It is time to move our democracy into the present, by reflecting todays needs and challenges. The implamentation of technology could and should move us to a more direct democracy instead of a representative democracy. Representative Democracy was good when it took a great deal of time to travel and communicate, such is not the case today. Technology can put the power where it should always have been, with us the people.

Sorry....Go Army.

Looking at the way people vote - a direct democracy would be a complete disaster. You think it is bad when people vote for the slime that we have now to hold office, just wait to see what would happen if people actually had to look at the bills that were proposed. No one but the select few would read anything and would likely only vote for a bill if they were getting something out of it.

Then you run into the old problem... what do you do when the 51% vote the other 49% into oblivion?

Or people vote everything down until it is written in such a way that everyone can understand it, instead of just the lawyers. We still have the judicial branch of government to strike down those laws that would do such a thing, as voting a group into oblivion.

 

[Ringel05]

Absolutely agree. It is time for another continental congress. It is time to move our democracy into the present, by reflecting todays needs and challenges. The implamentation of technology could and should move us to a more direct democracy instead of a representative democracy. Representative Democracy was good when it took a great deal of time to travel and communicate, such is not the case today. Technology can put the power where it should always have been, with us the people.

Sorry....Go Army.

We need less democracy, not more.

Wow...never thought I'd see someone ask for less democracy.

We fought the revolutionary war for the right to govern ourselves.
We fought WW I and WWII in defense of Democracy.
Now you want to tell me these men died for nothing.

You missed his point...... You do realize this is a constitutional republic based on democratic principles not a pure democracy.... right?

 

[spectrumc01]

We need less democracy, not more.

Wow...never thought I'd see someone ask for less democracy.

We fought the revolutionary war for the right to govern ourselves.
We fought WW I and WWII in defense of Democracy.
Now you want to tell me these men died for nothing.

You missed his point...... You do realize this is a constitutional republic based on democratic principles not a pure democracy.... right?

Yes I do. The OP posed the question of wether we agree about doing away with our current form of government, as was excerpted from the Declaration of Independance. This was the whole point of the OP.

Wanting less voice in how you are governed is a huge mistake, and disrespectful of those who died to give us such rights.

 

[LibertyForAll]

Let me rephrase my answer...

I wholeheartedly agree that the people have the right to change their government when it becomes corrupt and self serving. I do not however condone a change to another form of government. I just want to get the crooks out and make sure we put in stricter language that will close the holes that allowed our rights to be usurped.

 

[Ringel05]

Wow...never thought I'd see someone ask for less democracy.

We fought the revolutionary war for the right to govern ourselves.
We fought WW I and WWII in defense of Democracy.
Now you want to tell me these men died for nothing.

You missed his point...... You do realize this is a constitutional republic based on democratic principles not a pure democracy.... right?

Yes I do. The OP posed the question of wether we agree about doing away with our current form of government, as was excerpted from the Declaration of Independance. This was the whole point of the OP.

Wanting less voice in how you are governed is a huge mistake, and disrespectful of those who died to give us such rights.

Some people don't understand it, just clarifying.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

Absolutely agree. It is time for another continental congress. It is time to move our democracy into the present, by reflecting todays needs and challenges. The implamentation of technology could and should move us to a more direct democracy instead of a representative democracy. Representative Democracy was good when it took a great deal of time to travel and communicate, such is not the case today. Technology can put the power where it should always have been, with us the people.

Sorry....Go Army.

You really want a direct democracy where the mob rules and the minority's rights aren't protected at all?

Direct Democracy is the complete opposite of America's founding and what makes America a great nation.

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what is for dinnner......." -Thomas Jefferson

 

[spectrumc01]

Absolutely agree. It is time for another continental congress. It is time to move our democracy into the present, by reflecting todays needs and challenges. The implamentation of technology could and should move us to a more direct democracy instead of a representative democracy. Representative Democracy was good when it took a great deal of time to travel and communicate, such is not the case today. Technology can put the power where it should always have been, with us the people.

Sorry....Go Army.

You really want a direct democracy where the mob rules and the minority's rights aren't protected at all?

Direct Democracy is the complete opposite of America's founding and what makes America a great nation.

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what is for dinnner......." -Thomas Jefferson

Direct democracy still has to deal with the constitution. Direct democracy does not do away with the judicial branch of the government. The judicial branch still strikes down laws that are unconstitutional such as slavery for example.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

Absolutely agree. It is time for another continental congress. It is time to move our democracy into the present, by reflecting todays needs and challenges. The implamentation of technology could and should move us to a more direct democracy instead of a representative democracy. Representative Democracy was good when it took a great deal of time to travel and communicate, such is not the case today. Technology can put the power where it should always have been, with us the people.

Sorry....Go Army.

You really want a direct democracy where the mob rules and the minority's rights aren't protected at all?

Direct Democracy is the complete opposite of America's founding and what makes America a great nation.

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what is for dinnner......." -Thomas Jefferson

Direct democracy still has to deal with the constitution. Direct democracy does not do away with the judicial branch of the government. The judicial branch still strikes down laws that are unconstitutional such as slavery for example.

People could pass laws that pass constitutional muster while still screwing over the minority which will no longer be protected.

Our system protects the minority, direct democracy does not.

 

[Dragon]

You really want a direct democracy where the mob rules and the minority's rights aren't protected at all?

Direct Democracy is the complete opposite of America's founding and what makes America a great nation.

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what is for dinnner......." -Thomas Jefferson

The parts of the Constitution that protect the rights of minorities and those parts that specify how legislation is arrived at are completely separate. If we did have a direct democracy, it would involve replacing Article II, not the Bill of Rights. A law passed by the People's Virtual Assembly would be subject to the same restrictions as laws currently passed by Congress, e.g. it could not respect an establishment of religion or restrict the free exercise thereof, or abridge freedom of speech or the press or the right of the people peacefully to assemble, etc.

As for the quote by Jefferson, first, it goes against most of what Jefferson himself said and did, which for the most part promoted democracy, and secondly sheep always outnumber wolves. Those who object to democracy are usually wolves worried about being forced into vegetarianism, who only pretend to be sheep worried about becoming dinner.

The problem with direct democracy (as opposed to representative democracy) up to this time is that it has been unworkable, not that it would violate the rights of minorities. Government derives its powers from the consent of the governed, and the people can only give their consent at the speed of communication. It's impossible to have the American people all crowd physically into a room and discuss issues, so we do it by proxy. But thanks to the Internet, it is now possible for the people to discuss issues in a virtual room.

Whether that will result in replacement of representative with direct democracy in the near future remains quite uncertain, but what is bound to happen is that we will see more direct democracy on a sub-governmental level, and more activities such as Occupy arising from democratic interchanges online.

Our system protects the minority, direct democracy does not.

Tell that to my Cherokee ancestors. Or to blacks, kept as slaves for centuries and made second-class citizens for a century afterward. Or to the Japanese-Americans put in concentration camps during World War II. Or to women, or to gay people.

Your statement is historical nonsense.