Debt: Liberal vs. Conservative

PoliticalChic

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Liberal way of dealing with colleged debt...government:
1. Reporting from Washington — President Obama will make student loans easier to repay for millions of borrowers without adding to the national deficit, his administration said Tuesday. Obama to reduce student loan debt payments - Los Angeles Times


The conservative way, personal responsibility:
2. The College of the Ozarks — a four-year college since 1965, and rated No. 30 by U.S. News and World Report among Midwestern colleges offering both liberal arts and professional degrees — is one of seven so-called work colleges. Six describe themselves as Christian institutions and often, like Ozarks, are socially and politically conservative.

3. Like many undergraduates, students at the College of the Ozarks here work their way through school, though they often do such unconventional campus jobs as milking cows at dawn in the college’s barns and baking fruit breads for sale to donors.


4. But what is truly different about Hard Work U. — as the college styles itself — is that all 1,345 students must work 15 hours per week to pay off the entire cost of tuition — $15,900 per year. If they work summers, as one-third are doing this summer, they pay off their $4,400 room and board as well. Work study is not an option as it is at most campuses; it is the college’s raison d’être.

5. This is a college that is philosophically opposed to students starting careers with an Ozark mountain of debt — 95 percent graduate debt free — and it believes that students who put sweat equity into their education value it more.

6. “I find I take more pride in doing well in class when I know I’ve washed dishes to be able to take that class,” said Sarah Ledoux, a sophomore from Deridder, La. Other students make similar remarks on this campus, spread across a thousand acres of the hardscrabble hills and hollows of southwestern Missouri. Those students and the college’s longtime president, Jerry C. Davis, think the up-by-the-bootstraps credo is one that more campuses should adopt. Too many parents, they say, think children should focus only on the “full college experience” of classes, clubs and sports, and be spared the economic realities or have those realities postponed through loans. Fight Song at Ozarks: Work Hard and Avoid Debt - New York Times


7. “In the world of higher education, CO– as we shall call it in this blog anyway – is a true anomaly. The students graduate with virtually no student loan debt, which is pretty much unheard of these days….Now, it’s very clear that the College of the Ozarks isn’t for everyone (I’ll be honest and say that it isn’t for me). But there could be some variations on this model and some lessons to be learned.

8. CO is a worthwhile case study on how to depart from the traditional university model. And to the people out there that claim that academic prestige, faculty quality, etc. all suffer when you go down this path…..think about this. The University of the Ozarks just became a four-year college in 1965. But it already ranks no. 30 by U.S. News and World Report among Midwestern colleges offering both liberal arts and professional degrees. They must be doing something right.” College of the Ozarks: A New Model?


So...perhaps government isn't always the answer.
 
The difference between liberal and conservative is that the liberal belives in the perfectibility of man while the conservative has a human limitation.
 
15 (hours per week) X 32 (weeks in a college school year) = 480 hours work

$15,900/ 480 = $33.125 per hour.

FYI,

$33.12 x 2000 (a full time year's work) =$66,250 a year

Pretty damned good compensation for milking cows, isn't it?
 
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15 (hours per week) X 32 (weeks in a college school year) = 480 hours work

$15,900/ 480 = $33.125 per hour.

FYI,

$33.12 x 2000 (a full time year's work) =$66,250 a year

Pretty damned good compensation for milking cows, isn't it?

Why...?

You don't get that much?

Maybe you aren't that good at it......warm your hands!
 
Money shot:
5. This is a college that is philosophically opposed to students starting careers with an Ozark mountain of debt — 95 percent graduate debt free — and it believes that students who put sweat equity into their education value it more.
 
Money shot:
5. This is a college that is philosophically opposed to students starting careers with an Ozark mountain of debt — 95 percent graduate debt free — and it believes that students who put sweat equity into their education value it more.

Let's see if I can convince you to buy this theory:
1. All colleges could approximate this model....but there would have to
be no government money unbalancing the system. Americans give
lots to charity, and deserving students would fit that bill.

2.Higher education costs have grown as least as fast as
healthcare costs...but the Left hasn't sounded the tocsin
as they did with healthcare.

3. The reason? They want to control the healthcare industry, and the
Left already controls the universities.
That's were they get their shock troops, and support, and the old age home
for pols. And political contributions. Doctors contribute to the Right.

So....ya' think?
 
So they are teaching them to expect higher pay for a job that in the real world doesn't pay that well?
 
In 1994 the AAUP American Association of University Professors censured and condemned "The governing board and administration of College of the Ozarks" for actions which "violate the principles of academic freedom and tenure". The investigation described the atmosphere of the campus as "a strange blend of Orwell and Jonestown".[14]
College of the Ozarks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I thought this was interesting on wikipedia.
 
Liberal way of dealing with colleged debt...government:
1. Reporting from Washington — President Obama will make student loans easier to repay for millions of borrowers without adding to the national deficit, his administration said Tuesday. Obama to reduce student loan debt payments - Los Angeles Times


The conservative way, personal responsibility:
2. The College of the Ozarks — a four-year college since 1965, and rated No. 30 by U.S. News and World Report among Midwestern colleges offering both liberal arts and professional degrees — is one of seven so-called work colleges. Six describe themselves as Christian institutions and often, like Ozarks, are socially and politically conservative.

3. Like many undergraduates, students at the College of the Ozarks here work their way through school, though they often do such unconventional campus jobs as milking cows at dawn in the college’s barns and baking fruit breads for sale to donors.


4. But what is truly different about Hard Work U. — as the college styles itself — is that all 1,345 students must work 15 hours per week to pay off the entire cost of tuition — $15,900 per year. If they work summers, as one-third are doing this summer, they pay off their $4,400 room and board as well. Work study is not an option as it is at most campuses; it is the college’s raison d’être.

5. This is a college that is philosophically opposed to students starting careers with an Ozark mountain of debt — 95 percent graduate debt free — and it believes that students who put sweat equity into their education value it more.

6. “I find I take more pride in doing well in class when I know I’ve washed dishes to be able to take that class,” said Sarah Ledoux, a sophomore from Deridder, La. Other students make similar remarks on this campus, spread across a thousand acres of the hardscrabble hills and hollows of southwestern Missouri. Those students and the college’s longtime president, Jerry C. Davis, think the up-by-the-bootstraps credo is one that more campuses should adopt. Too many parents, they say, think children should focus only on the “full college experience” of classes, clubs and sports, and be spared the economic realities or have those realities postponed through loans. Fight Song at Ozarks: Work Hard and Avoid Debt - New York Times


7. “In the world of higher education, CO– as we shall call it in this blog anyway – is a true anomaly. The students graduate with virtually no student loan debt, which is pretty much unheard of these days….Now, it’s very clear that the College of the Ozarks isn’t for everyone (I’ll be honest and say that it isn’t for me). But there could be some variations on this model and some lessons to be learned.

8. CO is a worthwhile case study on how to depart from the traditional university model. And to the people out there that claim that academic prestige, faculty quality, etc. all suffer when you go down this path…..think about this. The University of the Ozarks just became a four-year college in 1965. But it already ranks no. 30 by U.S. News and World Report among Midwestern colleges offering both liberal arts and professional degrees. They must be doing something right.” College of the Ozarks: A New Model?


So...perhaps government isn't always the answer.
They should also mention it was created in 1906, became a four year school in 1965. ;)
 
Okay, now this is weird. I looked up an article on how it was started and they had this cheer from 1908. We used this cheer at my high school, no one else used it and it was started by a teacher who was there since the 60s, when he retired he would still come to pep cons and say this cheer. I wonder if they came up with it or someone else did?? I will have to research.

The October 1, 1908, Republican created an additional column, the ‘School of the Ozarks Owl.’ This item was published weekly. The article always began with The School Cheer.

Boom-a-lack-a, boom-a-lack-a
Bow, wow, wow
Chick-a-lack-a, chick-a-lack-a
Chow, chow, chow
Who are we? Who are we?
School of the Ozarks
YES-SIREE.
http://thelibrary.org/lochist/periodicals/wrv/v8/n1/f82k.htm
 
PC lives in a world in which all you have to do is scapegoat her favorite bogeyman and all explanations, reasons, and purposes naturally follow. You have to admit it is a simple world when one finger point solves the universal problem of whatever.

The nations that are doing the best today support education. "Among the lessons to be learned was that authorities in both cities [China] abandoned their focus on educating a small elite, and instead worked to construct a more inclusive system. They also significantly increased teacher pay and training, reducing the emphasis on rote learning and focusing classroom activities on problem solving." Read more: Education Survey: China Scores Top Marks; U.S., France Lag - TIME



"Great inequality is the scourge of modern societies. We provide the evidence on each of eleven different health and social problems: physical health, mental health, drug abuse, education, imprisonment, obesity, social mobility, trust and community life, violence, teenage births, and child well-being. For all eleven of these health and social problems, outcomes are very substantially worse in more unequal societies." Richard Wilkinson/Kate Pickett The Evidence in Detail | The Equality Trust
 
15 (hours per week) X 32 (weeks in a college school year) = 480 hours work

$15,900/ 480 = $33.125 per hour.

FYI,

$33.12 x 2000 (a full time year's work) =$66,250 a year

Pretty damned good compensation for milking cows, isn't it?

Why...?

You don't get that much?

Maybe you aren't that good at it......warm your hands!

My point here, PC is obvious.

If that college is really paying then $33 an hour?

Somebody else is really paying their tuitions.

Dairy Farm Worker Salary
We do not have salary data for this specific career but we can provide average wages for all careers in the category of Farmworkers, Farm, Ranch, and Aquacultural Animals

MEDIAN ANNUAL WAGE: $24,040
MEDIAN HOURLY WAGE: $11.56


Source: Bureau of Labor Statistics 2010 wage data external site and 2008-2018 employment projections external site. "Projected growth" represents the estimated change in total employment over the projections period (2008-2018). "Projected job openings" represent openings due to growth and replacement.
 
15 (hours per week) X 32 (weeks in a college school year) = 480 hours work

$15,900/ 480 = $33.125 per hour.

FYI,

$33.12 x 2000 (a full time year's work) =$66,250 a year

Pretty damned good compensation for milking cows, isn't it?

Why...?

You don't get that much?

Maybe you aren't that good at it......warm your hands!

My point here, PC is obvious.

If that college is really paying then $33 an hour?

Somebody else is really paying their tuitions.

Dairy Farm Worker Salary
We do not have salary data for this specific career but we can provide average wages for all careers in the category of Farmworkers, Farm, Ranch, and Aquacultural Animals

MEDIAN ANNUAL WAGE: $24,040
MEDIAN HOURLY WAGE: $11.56


Source: Bureau of Labor Statistics 2010 wage data external site and 2008-2018 employment projections external site. "Projected growth" represents the estimated change in total employment over the projections period (2008-2018). "Projected job openings" represent openings due to growth and replacement.

Is it the government?


If you are correct, and an astute mathematical calculation it is, what does it have to do with the premise of no-debt higher education?

Is there a problem if charity pays the difference?


Do you know how much charity is given each year in the United States...and isn't that a solution on which we can all agree?
 
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Liberal way of dealing with colleged debt...government:
1. Reporting from Washington — President Obama will make student loans easier to repay for millions of borrowers without adding to the national deficit, his administration said Tuesday. Obama to reduce student loan debt payments - Los Angeles Times


The conservative way, personal responsibility:
2. The College of the Ozarks — a four-year college since 1965, and rated No. 30 by U.S. News and World Report among Midwestern colleges offering both liberal arts and professional degrees — is one of seven so-called work colleges. Six describe themselves as Christian institutions and often, like Ozarks, are socially and politically conservative.

3. Like many undergraduates, students at the College of the Ozarks here work their way through school, though they often do such unconventional campus jobs as milking cows at dawn in the college’s barns and baking fruit breads for sale to donors.


4. But what is truly different about Hard Work U. — as the college styles itself — is that all 1,345 students must work 15 hours per week to pay off the entire cost of tuition — $15,900 per year. If they work summers, as one-third are doing this summer, they pay off their $4,400 room and board as well. Work study is not an option as it is at most campuses; it is the college’s raison d’être.

5. This is a college that is philosophically opposed to students starting careers with an Ozark mountain of debt — 95 percent graduate debt free — and it believes that students who put sweat equity into their education value it more.

6. “I find I take more pride in doing well in class when I know I’ve washed dishes to be able to take that class,” said Sarah Ledoux, a sophomore from Deridder, La. Other students make similar remarks on this campus, spread across a thousand acres of the hardscrabble hills and hollows of southwestern Missouri. Those students and the college’s longtime president, Jerry C. Davis, think the up-by-the-bootstraps credo is one that more campuses should adopt. Too many parents, they say, think children should focus only on the “full college experience” of classes, clubs and sports, and be spared the economic realities or have those realities postponed through loans. Fight Song at Ozarks: Work Hard and Avoid Debt - New York Times


7. “In the world of higher education, CO– as we shall call it in this blog anyway – is a true anomaly. The students graduate with virtually no student loan debt, which is pretty much unheard of these days….Now, it’s very clear that the College of the Ozarks isn’t for everyone (I’ll be honest and say that it isn’t for me). But there could be some variations on this model and some lessons to be learned.

8. CO is a worthwhile case study on how to depart from the traditional university model. And to the people out there that claim that academic prestige, faculty quality, etc. all suffer when you go down this path…..think about this. The University of the Ozarks just became a four-year college in 1965. But it already ranks no. 30 by U.S. News and World Report among Midwestern colleges offering both liberal arts and professional degrees. They must be doing something right.” College of the Ozarks: A New Model?


So...perhaps government isn't always the answer.

So, are you saying that students who go to liberal colleges don't have part-time jobs? Because the only thing I see separating those students, and the ones who go to this school in the Ozarks, is that the students at the Ozarks are paid well-above the market value. I'm sure many of those students who go to liberal colleges wouldn't mind being paid over twenty-five dollar above minimum wage.
 
Liberal way of dealing with colleged debt...government:
1. Reporting from Washington — President Obama will make student loans easier to repay for millions of borrowers without adding to the national deficit, his administration said Tuesday. Obama to reduce student loan debt payments - Los Angeles Times


The conservative way, personal responsibility:
2. The College of the Ozarks — a four-year college since 1965, and rated No. 30 by U.S. News and World Report among Midwestern colleges offering both liberal arts and professional degrees — is one of seven so-called work colleges. Six describe themselves as Christian institutions and often, like Ozarks, are socially and politically conservative.

3. Like many undergraduates, students at the College of the Ozarks here work their way through school, though they often do such unconventional campus jobs as milking cows at dawn in the college’s barns and baking fruit breads for sale to donors.


4. But what is truly different about Hard Work U. — as the college styles itself — is that all 1,345 students must work 15 hours per week to pay off the entire cost of tuition — $15,900 per year. If they work summers, as one-third are doing this summer, they pay off their $4,400 room and board as well. Work study is not an option as it is at most campuses; it is the college’s raison d’être.

5. This is a college that is philosophically opposed to students starting careers with an Ozark mountain of debt — 95 percent graduate debt free — and it believes that students who put sweat equity into their education value it more.

6. “I find I take more pride in doing well in class when I know I’ve washed dishes to be able to take that class,” said Sarah Ledoux, a sophomore from Deridder, La. Other students make similar remarks on this campus, spread across a thousand acres of the hardscrabble hills and hollows of southwestern Missouri. Those students and the college’s longtime president, Jerry C. Davis, think the up-by-the-bootstraps credo is one that more campuses should adopt. Too many parents, they say, think children should focus only on the “full college experience” of classes, clubs and sports, and be spared the economic realities or have those realities postponed through loans. Fight Song at Ozarks: Work Hard and Avoid Debt - New York Times


7. “In the world of higher education, CO– as we shall call it in this blog anyway – is a true anomaly. The students graduate with virtually no student loan debt, which is pretty much unheard of these days….Now, it’s very clear that the College of the Ozarks isn’t for everyone (I’ll be honest and say that it isn’t for me). But there could be some variations on this model and some lessons to be learned.

8. CO is a worthwhile case study on how to depart from the traditional university model. And to the people out there that claim that academic prestige, faculty quality, etc. all suffer when you go down this path…..think about this. The University of the Ozarks just became a four-year college in 1965. But it already ranks no. 30 by U.S. News and World Report among Midwestern colleges offering both liberal arts and professional degrees. They must be doing something right.” College of the Ozarks: A New Model?


So...perhaps government isn't always the answer.

So, are you saying that students who go to liberal colleges don't have part-time jobs? Because the only thing I see separating those students, and the ones who go to this school in the Ozarks, is that the students at the Ozarks are paid well-above the market value. I'm sure many of those students who go to liberal colleges wouldn't mind being paid over twenty-five dollar above minimum wage.

"So, are you saying that students who go to liberal colleges don't have part-time jobs?"

Were you able to ascertain exactly when your childhood ended and the hallucinations began?
 
Liberal way of dealing with colleged debt...government:
1. Reporting from Washington — President Obama will make student loans easier to repay for millions of borrowers without adding to the national deficit, his administration said Tuesday. Obama to reduce student loan debt payments - Los Angeles Times


The conservative way, personal responsibility:
2. The College of the Ozarks — a four-year college since 1965, and rated No. 30 by U.S. News and World Report among Midwestern colleges offering both liberal arts and professional degrees — is one of seven so-called work colleges. Six describe themselves as Christian institutions and often, like Ozarks, are socially and politically conservative.

3. Like many undergraduates, students at the College of the Ozarks here work their way through school, though they often do such unconventional campus jobs as milking cows at dawn in the college’s barns and baking fruit breads for sale to donors.


4. But what is truly different about Hard Work U. — as the college styles itself — is that all 1,345 students must work 15 hours per week to pay off the entire cost of tuition — $15,900 per year. If they work summers, as one-third are doing this summer, they pay off their $4,400 room and board as well. Work study is not an option as it is at most campuses; it is the college’s raison d’être.

5. This is a college that is philosophically opposed to students starting careers with an Ozark mountain of debt — 95 percent graduate debt free — and it believes that students who put sweat equity into their education value it more.

6. “I find I take more pride in doing well in class when I know I’ve washed dishes to be able to take that class,” said Sarah Ledoux, a sophomore from Deridder, La. Other students make similar remarks on this campus, spread across a thousand acres of the hardscrabble hills and hollows of southwestern Missouri. Those students and the college’s longtime president, Jerry C. Davis, think the up-by-the-bootstraps credo is one that more campuses should adopt. Too many parents, they say, think children should focus only on the “full college experience” of classes, clubs and sports, and be spared the economic realities or have those realities postponed through loans. Fight Song at Ozarks: Work Hard and Avoid Debt - New York Times


7. “In the world of higher education, CO– as we shall call it in this blog anyway – is a true anomaly. The students graduate with virtually no student loan debt, which is pretty much unheard of these days….Now, it’s very clear that the College of the Ozarks isn’t for everyone (I’ll be honest and say that it isn’t for me). But there could be some variations on this model and some lessons to be learned.

8. CO is a worthwhile case study on how to depart from the traditional university model. And to the people out there that claim that academic prestige, faculty quality, etc. all suffer when you go down this path…..think about this. The University of the Ozarks just became a four-year college in 1965. But it already ranks no. 30 by U.S. News and World Report among Midwestern colleges offering both liberal arts and professional degrees. They must be doing something right.” College of the Ozarks: A New Model?


So...perhaps government isn't always the answer.

So, are you saying that students who go to liberal colleges don't have part-time jobs? Because the only thing I see separating those students, and the ones who go to this school in the Ozarks, is that the students at the Ozarks are paid well-above the market value. I'm sure many of those students who go to liberal colleges wouldn't mind being paid over twenty-five dollar above minimum wage.

"So, are you saying that students who go to liberal colleges don't have part-time jobs?"

Were you able to ascertain exactly when your childhood ended and the hallucinations began?

Are you not able to answer a simple question?
 
So, are you saying that students who go to liberal colleges don't have part-time jobs? Because the only thing I see separating those students, and the ones who go to this school in the Ozarks, is that the students at the Ozarks are paid well-above the market value. I'm sure many of those students who go to liberal colleges wouldn't mind being paid over twenty-five dollar above minimum wage.

"So, are you saying that students who go to liberal colleges don't have part-time jobs?"

Were you able to ascertain exactly when your childhood ended and the hallucinations began?

Are you not able to answer a simple question?

"So, are you saying that students who go to liberal colleges don't have part-time jobs..."
Could you provide the clues that let you in this direction?
 
Why...?

You don't get that much?

Maybe you aren't that good at it......warm your hands!

My point here, PC is obvious.

If that college is really paying then $33 an hour?

Somebody else is really paying their tuitions.

Dairy Farm Worker Salary
We do not have salary data for this specific career but we can provide average wages for all careers in the category of Farmworkers, Farm, Ranch, and Aquacultural Animals

MEDIAN ANNUAL WAGE: $24,040
MEDIAN HOURLY WAGE: $11.56


Source: Bureau of Labor Statistics 2010 wage data external site and 2008-2018 employment projections external site. "Projected growth" represents the estimated change in total employment over the projections period (2008-2018). "Projected job openings" represent openings due to growth and replacement.

Is it the government?


If you are correct, and an astute mathematical calculation it is, what does it have to do with the premise of no-debt higher education?

Is there a problem if charity pays the difference?


Do you know how much charity is given each year in the United States...and isn't that a solution on which we can all agree?

Indeed, I applaud editec's astonishingly accurate calculations and his observation that there is an approximate $22/hr difference between the the wage for college students milking cows, and the median wage for farmworkes.

But your point is also well taken: it is not a LOAN. If the moron who wrote the article would have been sharper, they would have accounted for this difference, which is obviously a grant that is given BASED ON HOURS WORKED.

The problem becomes: How many career milkmaids have been displaced in the dairy market by this program?
 
My point here, PC is obvious.

If that college is really paying then $33 an hour?

Somebody else is really paying their tuitions.

Dairy Farm Worker Salary

Is it the government?


If you are correct, and an astute mathematical calculation it is, what does it have to do with the premise of no-debt higher education?

Is there a problem if charity pays the difference?


Do you know how much charity is given each year in the United States...and isn't that a solution on which we can all agree?

Indeed, I applaud editec's astonishingly accurate calculations and his observation that there is an approximate $22/hr difference between the the wage for college students milking cows, and the median wage for farmworkes.

But your point is also well taken: it is not a LOAN. If the moron who wrote the article would have been sharper, they would have accounted for this difference, which is obviously a grant that is given BASED ON HOURS WORKED.

The problem becomes: How many career milkmaids have been displaced in the dairy market by this program?

Actually, there were paid the larger amount not as 'milkmaids' but for scientific research: 1. they were out to detemine if they could make the cows laugh enough to make the milk come though their noses!
2. at what point in the milk making process does a mistake result in a a 'Milk Dud'.

Research is ongoing.
 

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