Debate Rages Over 'Stand Your Ground' Law

[Clementine]

Debate rages over 'Stand Your Ground' law. Who couldn't have predicted this? The Zimmerman case has been used as a tool by the left to further divide races and to dust off the left's favorite project - gun control. If Zimmerman is lying, then he did not follow the law, so why is changing the law being discussed? This strange logic has been used before. Illegal aliens ignore our immigration laws, so the politicians follow suit and even sue states if they dare try adhering to the law. The war on drugs wasn't going well because criminal kept ignoring drug laws, so some want to do away with laws and legalize drugs. Now, they just want to do away with a law that allows people to defend themselves. Of course, they don't want to stop with the law, they just want to take away guns so people won't have the means to defend themselves. The criminals always win when the leftie lawyers (and most Democrat politicians are lawyers) get involved and start making changes.

If they overturn the SYG law, only honest citizens will be affected. I know they are trying to make Zimmerman the criminal here, like they did with AZ for protecting borders and anti-amnesty groups. The left doesn't recognize the enemy as the gangs, drug dealers, illegal aliens or other criminals. They'd sooner convict a tea party member for holding up a sign they don't like than tackle gangs committing drive by shootings.

Some claim that Zimmerman murdered intentionally and is trying to twist the law to his advantage. The left has to push that theory if they are to use this case as an argument for gun control. I don't see any evidence that Zimmerman is using the SYG law. Self defense has been a legitimate defense forever and Zimmerman's lawyer will need to prove that.

I think it's the media and the left twisting this whole story to fit an agenda. Why else did they put out so much false information and continue to do so after they knew they were reporting lies? They had to keep reporting that Zimmerman was white, Martin was just a little kid and that the Florida law allowed Zimmerman to get away with murder. If they had been honest, this case would be the worst example to use for their argument of gun control and white racism.

Y! Big Story: After Zimmerman arrest, questions about

 

[WillowTree]

zimmerman was white too don'tyaknow?

 

[The T]

This whole scenario has ZERO to do with Florida's 'Stand your ground law'...

 

[squinch]

Just my 2 cents. To me, "stand your ground" means you draw a line in the sand and tell the other guy not to cross it. If the other guy walks away and you follow him, then aren't you the one who's crossing the line?

 

[Cowman]

Debate rages over 'Stand Your Ground' law. Who couldn't have predicted this? The Zimmerman case has been used as a tool by the left to further divide races and to dust off the left's favorite project - gun control. If Zimmerman is lying, then he did not follow the law, so why is changing the law being discussed? This strange logic has been used before. Illegal aliens ignore our immigration laws, so the politicians follow suit and even sue states if they dare try adhering to the law. The war on drugs wasn't going well because criminal kept ignoring drug laws, so some want to do away with laws and legalize drugs. Now, they just want to do away with a law that allows people to defend themselves. Of course, they don't want to stop with the law, they just want to take away guns so people won't have the means to defend themselves. The criminals always win when the leftie lawyers (and most Democrat politicians are lawyers) get involved and start making changes.

If they overturn the SYG law, only honest citizens will be affected. I know they are trying to make Zimmerman the criminal here, like they did with AZ for protecting borders and anti-amnesty groups. The left doesn't recognize the enemy as the gangs, drug dealers, illegal aliens or other criminals. They'd sooner convict a tea party member for holding up a sign they don't like than tackle gangs committing drive by shootings.

Some claim that Zimmerman murdered intentionally and is trying to twist the law to his advantage. The left has to push that theory if they are to use this case as an argument for gun control. I don't see any evidence that Zimmerman is using the SYG law. Self defense has been a legitimate defense forever and Zimmerman's lawyer will need to prove that.

I think it's the media and the left twisting this whole story to fit an agenda. Why else did they put out so much false information and continue to do so after they knew they were reporting lies? They had to keep reporting that Zimmerman was white, Martin was just a little kid and that the Florida law allowed Zimmerman to get away with murder. If they had been honest, this case would be the worst example to use for their argument of gun control and white racism.

Y! Big Story: After Zimmerman arrest, questions about

Races aren't divided over this George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin incident.

It's just conservatives divided even more than they were, this time regarding race. That's all it is.

 

[Cowman]

This whole scenario has ZERO to do with Florida's 'Stand your ground law'...

How the fuck do you figure that? If the motherfucker had been arrested like he should have and brought to trial, there wouldn't be as big of a controversy as there was. It would be a controversial murder case, but nothing like it is right now.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Debate rages over 'Stand Your Ground' law. Who couldn't have predicted this? The Zimmerman case has been used as a tool by the left to further divide races and to dust off the left's favorite project - gun control. If Zimmerman is lying, then he did not follow the law, so why is changing the law being discussed? This strange logic has been used before. Illegal aliens ignore our immigration laws, so the politicians follow suit and even sue states if they dare try adhering to the law. The war on drugs wasn't going well because criminal kept ignoring drug laws, so some want to do away with laws and legalize drugs. Now, they just want to do away with a law that allows people to defend themselves. Of course, they don't want to stop with the law, they just want to take away guns so people won't have the means to defend themselves. The criminals always win when the leftie lawyers (and most Democrat politicians are lawyers) get involved and start making changes.

If they overturn the SYG law, only honest citizens will be affected. I know they are trying to make Zimmerman the criminal here, like they did with AZ for protecting borders and anti-amnesty groups. The left doesn't recognize the enemy as the gangs, drug dealers, illegal aliens or other criminals. They'd sooner convict a tea party member for holding up a sign they don't like than tackle gangs committing drive by shootings.

Some claim that Zimmerman murdered intentionally and is trying to twist the law to his advantage. The left has to push that theory if they are to use this case as an argument for gun control. I don't see any evidence that Zimmerman is using the SYG law. Self defense has been a legitimate defense forever and Zimmerman's lawyer will need to prove that.

I think it's the media and the left twisting this whole story to fit an agenda. Why else did they put out so much false information and continue to do so after they knew they were reporting lies? They had to keep reporting that Zimmerman was white, Martin was just a little kid and that the Florida law allowed Zimmerman to get away with murder. If they had been honest, this case would be the worst example to use for their argument of gun control and white racism.

Y! Big Story: After Zimmerman arrest, questions about

Did you even bother to read or comprehend the article you linked?

No one is contemplating eliminating SYG, the article examines whether or not the Zimmerman defense team will be able to make use of the statue.

Even state sponsors of SYG concede it may not be applicable in the Zimmerman case:

Supporters [of SYG] such as former Republican senator Durell Peaden and Rep. Dennis Baxley, who co-sponsored the bill, or former Florida governor Jeb Bush, who signed the bill into law, have said Zimmerman lost his right to this defense when he sought out Martin. Bush stated that "Stand your ground means stand your ground. It doesn't mean chase after somebody who's turned their back."

I think it's the media and the left twisting this whole story to fit an agenda.

That’s rightwing partisan idiocy, you’ve got republican politicians stating Zimmerman likely isn’t covered by the provision.

 

[The T]

This whole scenario has ZERO to do with Florida's 'Stand your ground law'...

How the fuck do you figure that? If the motherfucker had been arrested like he should have and brought to trial, there wouldn't be as big of a controversy as there was. It would be a controversial murder case, but nothing like it is right now.

And WHY the Governor stepped in to stem the tide of the circus.

Oh yeah...

MOO!

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_EsxukdNXM]Cows Mooing - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Cowman]

Think you need to get one of these.

 

[g5000]

This past week, a convenience store was victimized by a flash mob of Trayvon Martins. It's all the rage now. Happens frequently. A couple/few dozen black teens came in, grabbed some Skittles and other stuff, and there was nothing the shopkeeper could do about it. Store policy says clerks are not allowed to stand their ground.

The store surveillance video has made it possible to identify some of the punks. The police are rounding them up. Some are from a local high school and are charming little boys. One is even on a church basketball team. I'm sure their moms have heartwarming photos of the little lads in choirboy robes and shit.

It would not surprise me in the least if a bunch of women's jewelry had been found in a search of a backpack belonging to one of the darling cherubs.

Hopefully none of them will end up shot dead one day, but I think chances are very high one or more of them will, with all the obligatory wailing and gnashing of teeth over someone's sweet little baby unjustly cut down.

God forbid their circle of role models and guardians should instill some decency and respect for others in them and maybe save their asses from a life of crime and punishment. But no. When they are eventually killed, it is always someone else's fault.

Look here boys. You go right ahead and be thieves. We will overlook that, and when you are killed, we will get the preacher man to make a lot of noise about the injustice of your deaths. That's how we roll in this hood.

Oh, look! Hoodies!

 

[bripat9643]

Just my 2 cents. To me, "stand your ground" means you draw a line in the sand and tell the other guy not to cross it. If the other guy walks away and you follow him, then aren't you the one who's crossing the line?

The evidence indicates Zimmerman was sitting in his car waiting when Treyvon assaulted him and began pounding his head on the pavement. If someone did that to me and I had a gun, I would shoot him right square in the forehead.

 

[The T]

776.013 Home protection; use of deadly force; presumption of fear of death or great bodily harm.—

 

[WorldWatcher]

Just my 2 cents. To me, "stand your ground" means you draw a line in the sand and tell the other guy not to cross it. If the other guy walks away and you follow him, then aren't you the one who's crossing the line?

The evidence indicates Zimmerman was sitting in his car waiting when Treyvon assaulted him and began pounding his head on the pavement. If someone did that to me and I had a gun, I would shoot him right square in the forehead.

For that to be true one of the following would have had to happen:

1. Zimmerman would have had to drive his truck off of the street "Twin Tree", go off road, and drive around behind the building where the event occurred, after the shooting occurred he'd have then had to drive the truck back to it's parking spot on Twin Tree, return to behind the building where the shot occurred, and then stand over Martin to be there when the witnesses say he was.

or

2. Martin attacked Zimmerman at the truck, dragged an armed man from the inside of a truck, dragged him down Twin Tree and behind the building where the event occurred, and Zimmerman to wait for this time to draw his weapon and shoot.​

The statement that Zimmerman was in his truck is not supported by the evidence and logic.



>>>>

 

[WorldWatcher]

776.013 Home protection; use of deadly force; presumption of fear of death or great bodily harm.—

776.013 Home protection; use of deadly force; presumption of fear of death or great bodily harm.—
(1) A person is presumed to have held a reasonable fear of imminent peril of death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another when using defensive force that is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm to another if:
(a) The person against whom the defensive force was used was in the process of unlawfully and forcefully entering, or had unlawfully and forcibly entered, a dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle, or if that person had removed or was attempting to remove another against that person’s will from the dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle; and
(b) The person who uses defensive force knew or had reason to believe that an unlawful and forcible entry or unlawful and forcible act was occurring or had occurred.​

From you link, an individual can use lethal force when illegally entering a home or dwelling, neither Zimmerman or Martin were in a home or illegally trying to enter a home or domicile.


That's not the law that applies here.


>>>>

 

[Peach]

Just my 2 cents. To me, "stand your ground" means you draw a line in the sand and tell the other guy not to cross it. If the other guy walks away and you follow him, then aren't you the one who's crossing the line?

The evidence indicates Zimmerman was sitting in his car waiting when Treyvon assaulted him and began pounding his head on the pavement. If someone did that to me and I had a gun, I would shoot him right square in the forehead.

It DOES? Where was the vehicle? Zimmerman called 9/11 OUT OF BREATH from following the victim.

 

[The T]

The Florida law is a self-defense, self-protection law. It has four key components:

• It establishes that law-abiding residents and visitors may legally presume the threat of bodily harm or death from anyone who breaks into a residence or occupied vehicle and may use defensive force, including deadly force, against the intruder.
• In any other place where a person “has a right to be,” that person has “no duty to retreat” if attacked and may “meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.”
• In either case, a person using any force permitted by the law is immune from criminal prosecution or civil action and cannot be arrested unless a law enforcement agency determines there is probable cause that the force used was unlawful.
• If a civil action is brought and the court finds the defendant to be immune based on the parameters of the law, the defendant will be awarded all costs of defense.

________________________

Another Link

 

[Mustang]

Debate rages over 'Stand Your Ground' law. Who couldn't have predicted this? The Zimmerman case has been used as a tool by the left to further divide races and to dust off the left's favorite project - gun control. If Zimmerman is lying, then he did not follow the law, so why is changing the law being discussed? This strange logic has been used before. Illegal aliens ignore our immigration laws, so the politicians follow suit and even sue states if they dare try adhering to the law. The war on drugs wasn't going well because criminal kept ignoring drug laws, so some want to do away with laws and legalize drugs. Now, they just want to do away with a law that allows people to defend themselves. Of course, they don't want to stop with the law, they just want to take away guns so people won't have the means to defend themselves. The criminals always win when the leftie lawyers (and most Democrat politicians are lawyers) get involved and start making changes.

If they overturn the SYG law, only honest citizens will be affected. I know they are trying to make Zimmerman the criminal here, like they did with AZ for protecting borders and anti-amnesty groups. The left doesn't recognize the enemy as the gangs, drug dealers, illegal aliens or other criminals. They'd sooner convict a tea party member for holding up a sign they don't like than tackle gangs committing drive by shootings.

Some claim that Zimmerman murdered intentionally and is trying to twist the law to his advantage. The left has to push that theory if they are to use this case as an argument for gun control. I don't see any evidence that Zimmerman is using the SYG law. Self defense has been a legitimate defense forever and Zimmerman's lawyer will need to prove that.

I think it's the media and the left twisting this whole story to fit an agenda. Why else did they put out so much false information and continue to do so after they knew they were reporting lies? They had to keep reporting that Zimmerman was white, Martin was just a little kid and that the Florida law allowed Zimmerman to get away with murder. If they had been honest, this case would be the worst example to use for their argument of gun control and white racism.

Y! Big Story: After Zimmerman arrest, questions about

It's amazing to me how you guys manage to blame 'the left' for everything under the sun.

Why is it that YOU guys didn't see this as a case of an unarmed teenage boy getting unjustly shot by an overeager man with a gun while the young boy was minding his business, walking on a public sidewalk?

Why? I think it was because Sharpton was involved, and you just couldn't resist jumping on the other side.

I think you guys didn't care about Tayvon Martin OR George Zimmerman at all. They were completely ancillary to what was YOUR issue. And that issue is opposing 'the Left' no matter what. Right and wrong, and good and bad are lost on you guys too much of the time.

 

[bripat9643]

The Florida law is a self-defense, self-protection law. It has four key components:

• It establishes that law-abiding residents and visitors may legally presume the threat of bodily harm or death from anyone who breaks into a residence or occupied vehicle and may use defensive force, including deadly force, against the intruder.
• In any other place where a person “has a right to be,” that person has “no duty to retreat” if attacked and may “meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.”
• In either case, a person using any force permitted by the law is immune from criminal prosecution or civil action and cannot be arrested unless a law enforcement agency determines there is probable cause that the force used was unlawful.
• If a civil action is brought and the court finds the defendant to be immune based on the parameters of the law, the defendant will be awarded all costs of defense.

________________________

Another Link

It sounds like Zimmermann's indictment violates the law.

 

[The T]

The Florida law is a self-defense, self-protection law. It has four key components:

• It establishes that law-abiding residents and visitors may legally presume the threat of bodily harm or death from anyone who breaks into a residence or occupied vehicle and may use defensive force, including deadly force, against the intruder.
• In any other place where a person “has a right to be,” that person has “no duty to retreat” if attacked and may “meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.”
• In either case, a person using any force permitted by the law is immune from criminal prosecution or civil action and cannot be arrested unless a law enforcement agency determines there is probable cause that the force used was unlawful.
• If a civil action is brought and the court finds the defendant to be immune based on the parameters of the law, the defendant will be awarded all costs of defense.

________________________

Another Link

It sounds like Zimmermann's indictment violates the law.

And cannot be used IMHO.

That is by what we KNOW...and probably why he was charged with 2nd degree murder.

 

[bripat9643]

It's amazing to me how you guys manage to blame 'the left' for everything under the sun.

Why is it that YOU guys didn't see this as a case of an unarmed teenage boy getting unjustly shot by an overeager man with a gun while the young boy was minding his business, walking on a public sidewalk?

Why? I think it was because Sharpton was involved, and you just couldn't resist jumping on the other side.

I think you guys didn't care about Tayvon Martin OR George Zimmerman at all. They were completely ancillary to what was YOUR issue. And that issue is opposing 'the Left' no matter what. Right and wrong, and good and bad are lost on you guys too much of the time.

Perhaps it's because we look at all the facts, not just the selectively edited 911 tapes and unsubstantiated harangues of race baiting demagogues.