Death to the Middle Class

[Truthmatters]

sad how other countries can make these concepts work for their people and Americans seem to think we are not as smart or capable as those countries who have benifited by creating laws to protect the middle class.

We will be fucked economically without a strong middle class.

name a country with 350,000 people that has done so....

How would the numbers change the outcome?

 

[rightwinger]

What was his tax load?
Similar to todays rates
How many bureaucrats were running around telling him what he could or couldn't do back then?

[/I] Thats what bureaucrats do. They had bureacrats then too[/I]

How much "free" stuff was he demanding form Big Daddy Big Gubmint back then?

I don't see where the middle class is demanding free stuff. All they want is a basic standard of living for a 40 hour wage

BTW...I thought it was the connies who were the ones pining away for the "good old days"?

Not familiar with a connie

 

[Bern80]

They want to be able to afford a basic standard of living on what they make.

The problem is this is such an amorphous, vague concept. They want to afford a basic standard of living on what they make? How much do they make? How much should be 'enough' to do that? (What a ridiculously arbitrary concept that is). For how many people should it provide for? This is what happens when you define societal roles incorrectly. You end up with ridiculous paradoxes where busienss is now suppossed to pay people based on an employee's family size or mortgage payment as oppossed to contractual agreement where you are paid for your contribution and value to the company.

Those of you arguing that the middle class is not making enough for a basic standard of living are making the argument, whether you realize it or not that it is the role of business to provide you a standard of living. That is NOT the role of business. Their role is to make money, period. You're role is to use your god given brain to provide for yourself to whatever extent you desire. Making money, enough to become financially independant, is not about working hard. It's about working smart. We complain and complain yet we also are told we only use 10% of our brains and for many that may be generous.

 

[Shorebreak]

There is one thing we need to remember, the Middle Class still votes. The question is, will they realize who the threat is in time before they lose that ability to save themselves.

They haven't realized it in any election for the last few decades so I doubt they'll recognize it now.

 

[manu1959]

sad how other countries can make these concepts work for their people and Americans seem to think we are not as smart or capable as those countries who have benifited by creating laws to protect the middle class.

We will be fucked economically without a strong middle class.

name a country with 350,000 people that has done so....

How would the numbers change the outcome?

ok it wouldn't.... running the united states is just as easy as running sweden.....

ok i will bite which country do you want to model the us after....since they are all the same...

 

[Mr. Peepers]

name a country with 350,000 people that has done so....

Um, most of the countries in Europe... Oh, did you mean 350,000,000? So, who cares what the numbers are. The more people adding to the pot, the better off we'll be...

 

[rightwinger]

[

The middle class are not looking at living in BelAir. They want to be able to afford a basic standard of living on what they make.

The problem is this is such an amorphous, vague concept. They want to afford a basic standard of living on what they make? How much do they make? How much should be 'enough' to do that? (What a ridiculously arbitrary concept that is). For how many people should it provide for? This is what happens when you define societal roles incorrectly. You end of ridiculous paradoxes where busienss is now suppossed to pay people based on an employee's family size or mortgage payment as oppossed to their value to the company.

Those of you arguing that the middle class is not making enough for a basic standard of living are making the argument, whether you realize it or not that it is the role of business to provide you a standard of living. That is NOT the role of business. Their role is to make money, period. You're role is to use your god given brain to provide for yourself to whatever extent you desire. Making money, enough to become financially independant, is not about working hard. It's about working smart. We complain and complain yet we also are told we only use 10% of our brains and for many that may be generous.

Fact is that the middle class works more hours and is more productive than at any time in history. By claiming hard times,Businesses have intimidated workers to work more hours for less pay and fewer benefits. In these same hard times, executive pay has skyrocketed.

 

[manu1959]

[

The middle class are not looking at living in BelAir. They want to be able to afford a basic standard of living on what they make.

The problem is this is such an amorphous, vague concept. They want to afford a basic standard of living on what they make? How much do they make? How much should be 'enough' to do that? (What a ridiculously arbitrary concept that is). For how many people should it provide for? This is what happens when you define societal roles incorrectly. You end of ridiculous paradoxes where busienss is now suppossed to pay people based on an employee's family size or mortgage payment as oppossed to their value to the company.

Those of you arguing that the middle class is not making enough for a basic standard of living are making the argument, whether you realize it or not that it is the role of business to provide you a standard of living. That is NOT the role of business. Their role is to make money, period. You're role is to use your god given brain to provide for yourself to whatever extent you desire. Making money, enough to become financially independant, is not about working hard. It's about working smart. We complain and complain yet we also are told we only use 10% of our brains and for many that may be generous.

Fact is that the middle class works more hours and is more productive than at any time in history. By claiming hard times,Businesses have intimidated workers to work more hours for less pay and fewer benefits. In these same hard times, executive pay has skyrocketed.

then become an executive......make hard choices.....not everyone gets to live where they would like to and do what they would like to....life is hard...it is unfair....if you don't like it do something to change it....

you are where you are through your own choices....

 

[Oddball]

What was his tax load?
Similar to todays rates
Wanna share what you're smoking with the rest of the class?
How many bureaucrats were running around telling him what he could or couldn't do back then?

[/I] Thats what bureaucrats do. They had bureacrats then too[/I]
That doesn't answer the question, dodge boy.

How much "free" stuff was he demanding form Big Daddy Big Gubmint back then?

I don't see where the middle class is demanding free stuff. All they want is a basic standard of living for a 40 hour wage
And Social Security, Medicare/Medicaid, unemployment, "free" gubmint schools, smoking bans, mass transit scams, a failed "war" on (some) drugs, stupid HOV lanes, money-sucking recycling programs, the list goes on and on.

Try again.

 

[Contessa_Sharra]

[

The middle class are not looking at living in BelAir. They want to be able to afford a basic standard of living on what they make.

The problem is this is such an amorphous, vague concept. They want to afford a basic standard of living on what they make? How much do they make? How much should be 'enough' to do that? (What a ridiculously arbitrary concept that is). For how many people should it provide for? This is what happens when you define societal roles incorrectly. You end of ridiculous paradoxes where busienss is now suppossed to pay people based on an employee's family size or mortgage payment as oppossed to their value to the company.

Those of you arguing that the middle class is not making enough for a basic standard of living are making the argument, whether you realize it or not that it is the role of business to provide you a standard of living. That is NOT the role of business. Their role is to make money, period. You're role is to use your god given brain to provide for yourself to whatever extent you desire. Making money, enough to become financially independant, is not about working hard. It's about working smart. We complain and complain yet we also are told we only use 10% of our brains and for many that may be generous.

"...ridiculous paradoxes where busienss is now suppossed to pay people based on an employee's family size or mortgage payment as oppossed to their value to the company."

Business has always done this. Example: Chicago Title and Trust, Chicago, 1971, I had office experience, had some management experience, and was hired at a salary less than a MALE, recent HS grad, no experience, and no he couldn't type. In fact all he did was haul carts with file sets in them! His greater pay was on the premise that he would marry and have children someday!

 

[Bern80]

[

The middle class are not looking at living in BelAir. They want to be able to afford a basic standard of living on what they make.

The problem is this is such an amorphous, vague concept. They want to afford a basic standard of living on what they make? How much do they make? How much should be 'enough' to do that? (What a ridiculously arbitrary concept that is). For how many people should it provide for? This is what happens when you define societal roles incorrectly. You end of ridiculous paradoxes where busienss is now suppossed to pay people based on an employee's family size or mortgage payment as oppossed to their value to the company.

Those of you arguing that the middle class is not making enough for a basic standard of living are making the argument, whether you realize it or not that it is the role of business to provide you a standard of living. That is NOT the role of business. Their role is to make money, period. You're role is to use your god given brain to provide for yourself to whatever extent you desire. Making money, enough to become financially independant, is not about working hard. It's about working smart. We complain and complain yet we also are told we only use 10% of our brains and for many that may be generous.

Fact is that the middle class works more hours and is more productive than at any time in history. By claiming hard times,Businesses have intimidated workers to work more hours for less pay and fewer benefits. In these same hard times, executive pay has skyrocketed.

Dude, you're not listening. It isn't about how many hours you work. That isn't the only way to make money. You sir indeed are using less than 10% of your brain if that is the limit of your imagination and how to make money. People work extra hours to maintain the same cash flow not because the system is trying to screw them, but because they refuse to push themselves to their potential. If you dont like that your boss got a raise and you didn't, either justify why you deserve one too or vote with your feet and work for a company that treats people with the fairness you think it should.

 

[Mr. Peepers]

then become an executive......make hard choices.....not everyone gets to live where they would like to and do what they would like to....life is hard...it is unfair....if you don't like it do something to change it....

you are where you are through your own choices....

Ah, so the truth finally comes out. Only executives / rich people should be allowed to make ends meet and actually save some of their money and maybe amass a little wealth. Got it. Cause we can ALL be executives. Good lord, you people really are itching to turn this country into the third world. Congrats. By the looks of things we're half way there. Are you really saying that to be able to make ends meet, send your kids to college (any college) and be able to afford health care, it's ok that one would have to work 80 hours a week and three jobs? Who wants to live like that? I don't care how ambitious you are... That is not a life.

 

[noose4]

No thats not what they want.

They want to be able to afford a house on what they make. They want to be able to get sick without going bankrupt. They want to be able to afford to send their kids to college. The middle class does not expect anything for free. They just want to be able to work a 40 hour week and afford a basic standard of living

all of that is possible....but you have to live where you can afford to...send you kids to a school you can afford and get a job with healthcare or buy it yourself....

i did it .....

no you don't get to live bel aire.....no you don't get to go to usc.....no you don't get a ppo....

you get a house in baypoint....you get to go to a comunity college and work at the same time and you get kaiser...

The middle class are not looking at living in BelAir. They want to be able to afford a basic standard of living on what they make.
My father had a HS degree and worked for the phone company climbing poles for forty years. On one salary, he was able to afford a three bedroom house on an acre of land, two cars, full healthcare and sent four kids to college without going into debt.

Try to do that today

I work for the phone company, I am single, make good money(luckily I belong to a strong union) and I dont see how people with families do it expense wise.

 

[noose4]

sad how other countries can make these concepts work for their people and Americans seem to think we are not as smart or capable as those countries who have benifited by creating laws to protect the middle class.

We will be fucked economically without a strong middle class.

Hell we have people actively attacking things like Unions that help working people achieve middle class status.

 

[Mr. Peepers]

If you dont like that your boss got a raise and you didn't, either justify why you deserve one too or vote with your feet and work for a company that treats people with the fairness you think it should.

Are you insane? Do you have eyes and ears? Wages are being driven lower and lower right now because there are so many people out of work and desperate for a job - ANY JOB, that it's hard to find anything that pays more than $10 per hour... no matter what it is? You are an idiot. Wages are stagnant and have been for two decades. Are you really saying that American workers are not worth what they used to be even though production is higher than ever? And even though they have more of a workload and responsiblility than ever due to bare bones hiring practices and outsourcing? Are you REALLY saying that CEO's and other executives now are magically worth 400x that of their employees on the front lines who are busting their asses to MAKE THEM THAT MONEY even though those employees get stiffed on bonuses and cost of living raises? Really? Are you really defending that?

 

[manu1959]

then become an executive......make hard choices.....not everyone gets to live where they would like to and do what they would like to....life is hard...it is unfair....if you don't like it do something to change it....

you are where you are through your own choices....

Ah, so the truth finally comes out. Only executives / rich people should be allowed to make ends meet and actually save some of their money and maybe amass a little wealth. Got it. Cause we can ALL be executives. Good lord, you people really are itching to turn this country into the third world. Congrats. By the looks of things we're half way there. Are you really saying that to be able to make ends meet, send your kids to college (any college) and be able to afford health care, it's ok that one would have to work 80 hours a week and three jobs? Who wants to live like that? I don't care how ambitious you are... That is not a life.

well i went from 8 dollars an hour as a carpenter...to paying for college myself...buying a house myself... obtaining health care for my family and saving for college for my two kids...and starting my own business....my point is...stop complaing about what others have and go get what you want....

fucking hell if you all put as much effort into life as you do bitching about it you would be what you want.....

ya i know it is someone elses fault you can't get there....

 

[Mr. Peepers]

well i went from 8 dollars an hour as a carpenter...to paying for college myself...buying a house myself... obtaining health care for my family and saving for college for my two kids...and starting my own business....my point is...stop complaing about what others have and go get what you want....

Oh yeah, exactly when was this... 52? 68? Yeah, you could actually do that then. Not now. I went from being able to put over $200 a month into savings to now barely being able to put in $40. In 3 years.... With no lifestyle "upgrades". And who is complaining? I will not work myself to death in order to just survive. I will move out of this hole if it ever comes to that.

 

[Mr. Peepers]

Oh, and I also worked from the time I was 16, put myself through college (still paying for it) and have worked multiple jobs when I had to, bought every car I've ever had. And let me guess, you're married with two incomes, right? Well, I'm not. I've had to do everything on my own.

 

[Truthmatters]

sad how other countries can make these concepts work for their people and Americans seem to think we are not as smart or capable as those countries who have benifited by creating laws to protect the middle class.

We will be fucked economically without a strong middle class.

Hell we have people actively attacking things like Unions that help working people achieve middle class status.

It is just insane to attack unions and put corps on an alter.

Why the rights minions buy ointo this I wikll never know.

 

[Political Junky]

what the middle class really needs is a good dose of some "free" gubmint health care!! that'll hep 'em!!! Also, get them a free house and a free car and free gas and free insurance and someone to pay for their food and more free shit too!! Hep a brother out!!!!

The piddling middlers need hep!!!!

No thats not what they want.

They want to be able to afford a house on what they make. They want to be able to get sick without going bankrupt. They want to be able to afford to send their kids to college. The middle class does not expect anything for free. They just want to be able to work a 40 hour week and afford a basic standard of living

And they had all those things, usually on one salary, until Reagan came along.