Death Penalty--pros and cons

[Annie]

You don't support the fair tax?

Nope, Jeff and I went round and round with it.

 

[Joz]

The reason it takes so long is that capital offenses carry and automatic appeal. The thing can get tied up in court for decades.

Appeal my ass. If a person is convicted of a crime, proven beyond ANY reasonable doubt, there should be no appeal.
Take the recent abduction & murder of little Jessica Lunsford. Couey has admitted to this crime. As I said, he should be allowed a few weeks to get his affairs in order, say goodbye to his familly and then be put to death. Justice served.

Some of us seem to believe that this man deserves to sit in a prison for the rest of his life. Hmmmm, maybe he'll feel sorry sometime. But what about Jessica? Sure she's dead, not a biggy, right? But what about what this little girl went thru? You have an adult, developed man, forcibly penetrating a little girl's body. The terror and pain this child went thru, followed by death. Was it quick? Probably not. And you think he should live?!

 

[JOKER96BRAVO]

Appeal my ass. If a person is convicted of a crime, proven beyond ANY reasonable doubt, there should be no appeal.

Sounds like the type of thinking they did in the "good book"

PUNISHMENT OF, FOR

Setting light by parents.

Deuteronomy 27:16 Cursed be he that setteth light by his father or his mother. And all the people shall say, Amen.

Disobeying parents.

Deuteronomy 21:21 And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones,
that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall
hear, and fear.

Mocking parents.

Proverbs 30:17 The eye that mocketh at his father, and despiseth to obey his
mother, the ravens of the valley shall pick it out, and the young eagles shall
eat it.

Cursing parents.

Exodus 21:15 And he that smiteth his father, or his mother, shall be surely
put to death.

Mark 7:10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso
curseth father or mother, let him die the death:

Smiting parents.

Exodus 21:15 And he that smiteth his father, or his mother, shall be surely
put to death.

Good thing we don't go around stoning are children huh.....
Or should we

Rev 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this
prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the
holy city, and [from] the things which are written in this book.

 

[Joz]

Sounds like the type of thinking they did in the "good book"......

I don't understand what point you're trying to make.

 

[JOKER96BRAVO]

I don't know if I had one...
That all just popped up in my head.

 

[GotZoom]

You want less crime?
Secure the borders!

You want less crime?
Enact the fair tax to help create jobs!

You want less crime?
Privatize the schools and go to a voucher system!

You want less crime?
Move to private retirement accounts and if someone screws up-SEIZE THE FUNDS FROM THE ACCOUNT (nothing could be worse than knowing that you could be living down by the beach in florida having pina coladas playing shuffle board but you screwed up and are now attempting to fight off the sodomites on a daily basis!).


Keep criminals from entering our country,create jobs,put more money in peoples pockets,better education and a brighter future!

That is how we should be lowering the crime rate!

You want less crime?

How about parents being parents! Remember, teaching right from wrong?

Actually raising your children instead of letting the TV or the kid's friends do it.

Spend time with the kids instead of dumping them at the mall?

It starts at home!

 

[GotZoom]

You want less crime?
Secure the borders!

You want less crime?
Enact the fair tax to help create jobs!

You want less crime?
Privatize the schools and go to a voucher system!

You want less crime?
Move to private retirement accounts and if someone screws up-SEIZE THE FUNDS FROM THE ACCOUNT (nothing could be worse than knowing that you could be living down by the beach in florida having pina coladas playing shuffle board but you screwed up and are now attempting to fight off the sodomites on a daily basis!).


Keep criminals from entering our country,create jobs,put more money in peoples pockets,better education and a brighter future!

That is how we should be lowering the crime rate!

Here is another thought:

How about making prison an unpleasant place to be?

No TV, Radio, Computers, Gyms, Librarys?

How about a 6X6 cell with one hour per day outside to walk silently in a circle.

How about a bucket in the corner to take care of your bathroom duties.

When people realize that their life INSIDE of prison is worse than OUTSIDE, instead of the other way around........

 

[Nienna]

Or at least have them work to offset their room and board. Plus how about teaching them religion for rehabilitation purposes? Or do you think libs would consider that to be extreme punishment? I'm sure the ACLU would not want God anywhere in the state prisons.

There is a ministry called Prison Fellowship headed by evangelist Chuck Colson. It is a voluntary program, but the recidivism rates are MUCH better, can't think of the numbers now, but impressive. Of course, the libs are all over this, trying to "separate church and state."

 

[Bonnie]

Here is another thought:

How about making prison an unpleasant place to be?

No TV, Radio, Computers, Gyms, Librarys?

How about a 6X6 cell with one hour per day outside to walk silently in a circle.

How about a bucket in the corner to take care of your bathroom duties.

When people realize that their life INSIDE of prison is worse than OUTSIDE, instead of the other way around........

Bravo maestro!!

 

[deaddude]

The harshness of the prison should depend on the crime. If you send a petty theif to half of the places you mentioned and he survived his stay he would come out a psycopath.

 

[GotZoom]

The harshness of the prison should depend on the crime. If you send a petty theif to half of the places you mentioned and he survived his stay he would come out a psycopath.

Define petty.

 

[deaddude]

Pick pockets, non violent small scale burglaries, Televangelist scams, that kind of thing

 

[GotZoom]

Pick pockets, non violent small scale burglaries, Televangelist scams, that kind of thing

Put them in the same prison. Separate from the more severe inmates of course.

But they can still experience the unpleasantness of a 6X6 room, no TV, etc.

 

[deaddude]

I was refering to the sort of solitary confinement thing.

 

[pegwinn]

For starters, I support the death penalty. I think there is room for improvement. First off, we need to ensure the absolute truth of the matter. This requires a truth machine.

The reason the d/p is more expensive than life imprisonment is that the entire time you are on death row, there is a legal proceding in progress. Your lawyers are constantly making motions, filing appeals, etc. No one simply sits on death row.

Back when I first checked out this board I wrote an opinion on prisons. You might find it interesting (and I won't need to retype to reply to this thread) Time to fix the prisons

But, to actually achieve justice, there is an even more radical solution. More radical than emptying the prisons. More than eliminating the death penalty. It involves actually making truth the number one tenet of justice. This one garnered some sharp responses. The point here is to actually know for a fact that the guilty are the ones getting punished. Bring Back Superman

 

[Yurt]

For starters, I support the death penalty. I think there is room for improvement. First off, we need to ensure the absolute truth of the matter. This requires a truth machine.

The reason the d/p is more expensive than life imprisonment is that the entire time you are on death row, there is a legal proceding in progress. Your lawyers are constantly making motions, filing appeals, etc. No one simply sits on death row.

Back when I first checked out this board I wrote an opinion on prisons. You might find it interesting (and I won't need to retype to reply to this thread) Time to fix the prisons

But, to actually achieve justice, there is an even more radical solution. More radical than emptying the prisons. More than eliminating the death penalty. It involves actually making truth the number one tenet of justice. This one garnered some sharp responses. The point here is to actually know for a fact that the guilty are the ones getting punished. Bring Back Superman

I read some of your earlier cited posts, good reads, but will not go into more as it would be off subject.

As to "truth." What is it? Your truth? My truth? Whose truth? I have often pondered this, for my profession has me looking at both sides of the argument, regardless of the truth. It is like warfare, know your enemy's position and you can destroy your enemy. At first I had a hard time, as to see the "other" side I had to contemplate what I considered "untruth," or something I considered false. What I have learned is, truth is not always what it seems. For there is your truth and there is my truth.

I am not talking criminal, rather civil disagreements. Nonetheless, even in criminal cases, the truth can depend on the witness. There are five witnesses to the same event. As you know, you will get five truths. Maybe together they all equal "the" truth, however, you still have five different versions of it and must amalgmate them into one.

Truth is the base of every charge, of every defense. I believe though that finding it is not as easy as it seems. Do I think too much is spent on prisoners, especially those in death row? Yes. However, think of the innocent that we have killed. Think of the innocent that have been set free with modern science (DNA). In those jurors minds, they were guilty. That was "their" truth. But it was not "the" truth.

IMO

 

[pegwinn]

I read some of your earlier cited posts, good reads, but will not go into more as it would be off subject.

As to "truth." What is it? Your truth? My truth? Whose truth? I have often pondered this, for my profession has me looking at both sides of the argument, regardless of the truth. It is like warfare, know your enemy's position and you can destroy your enemy. At first I had a hard time, as to see the "other" side I had to contemplate what I considered "untruth," or something I considered false. What I have learned is, truth is not always what it seems. For there is your truth and there is my truth.

I am not talking criminal, rather civil disagreements. Nonetheless, even in criminal cases, the truth can depend on the witness. There are five witnesses to the same event. As you know, you will get five truths. Maybe together they all equal "the" truth, however, you still have five different versions of it and must amalgmate them into one.

Truth is the base of every charge, of every defense. I believe though that finding it is not as easy as it seems. Do I think too much is spent on prisoners, especially those in death row? Yes. However, think of the innocent that we have killed. Think of the innocent that have been set free with modern science (DNA). In those jurors minds, they were guilty. That was "their" truth. But it was not "the" truth.

IMO

I don't understand the your truth, my truth thing to be honest. I believe there is only one truth. There may be many beliefs that apply to the truth. But, if we could focus questions with absolute knowlege that we were being told the truth by the person we were questioning, it would be better. Imagine simply asking the accused, "Did you rob the seven eleven last thursday at four pm?". If the answer is no, then you move to the next suspect. Imagine the number of innocent people not tried, let alone wrongly convicted.

 

[Yurt]

I don't understand the your truth, my truth thing to be honest. I believe there is only one truth. There may be many beliefs that apply to the truth. But, if we could focus questions with absolute knowlege that we were being told the truth by the person we were questioning, it would be better. Imagine simply asking the accused, "Did you rob the seven eleven last thursday at four pm?". If the answer is no, then you move to the next suspect. Imagine the number of innocent people not tried, let alone wrongly convicted.

I understand. But what if the suspect lied about the robbery as you say, then we move on? What if he said yes, then we, according to this train of thought, must let him go. But what if it was not the truth? What if it was coercied?

Your truth, my truth. I have never understood this idea. Personally I think it is bs, however, I live on this planet where it is accepted. By virture of sin or by virtue of evolution, however wish to call it. As such, I accept the premise because it works with the imperfect system we have. Unfortunately the guilty go free and the innocent stay behind bars. This happens, only because there is on perfect system with which to establish truth.

Technology can claim to establish truth, however, time and time again, it has been proven to be wrong. Even if it is wrong only 5% of the time, then 5% percent will either be guilty or innocent and be subject or relieved of the punishment/freedom that was their's by right.

 

[pegwinn]

I think that maybe we are miscommunicating here. If I ask you a question under a machine or drugs that ensure that you tell me the truth........

Wonder how close they are to making such a thing.

Read the Truth Machine, by Halpernin. It's where I got the idea. The link is to a story on modern truth detection and is also an interview with the author.

 

[cptpwichita]

Here is another thought:

How about making prison an unpleasant place to be?

No TV, Radio, Computers, Gyms, Librarys?

How about a 6X6 cell with one hour per day outside to walk silently in a circle.

How about a bucket in the corner to take care of your bathroom duties.

When people realize that their life INSIDE of prison is worse than OUTSIDE, instead of the other way around........

AGREED!