CDZ Death Penalty/Criminal Insanity

[Abishai100]

I want to present a debate about the death penalty but through the lens of criminal insanity, since that seems to put the real monkey-wrench into the wheel.

Here's a mock dialogue between Shiva (Hindu god of destruction) and Pennywise (fictional demonic clown from the Stephen King novel It) to get things cooking (since these two 'folk-mythos' avatars symbolize 'extreme measures').


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SHIVA: It's most difficult to administer the death penalty when the defendant is considered criminally insane.
PENNYWISE: When the victimizer seems to have no control over their own decisions, they're vulnerable.
SHIVA: There are cases when sleepwalkers commit crimes without any conscious 'self-control.'
PENNYWISE: Yes, such individuals are considered to possess no self-evaluation capability.
SHIVA: What if a victim avenges themselves by killing their victimizer (e.g., vigilante-bent execution of rapist)?
PENNYWISE: Vigilantes, lynch-mobs, 'maniac-cops,' and jihadists fall under 'mob-psychology.'
SHIVA: Yes, all of Nazi Germany was criminally insane and hence indicative of mob-psychology.
PENNYWISE: Can you construe Nazi Germany as a 'criminally-insane state' requiring rehabilitation?
SHIVA: You'd need a really devoted criminal psychologist to address such an issue...
PENNYWISE: There would be no room for error!
SHIVA: Germany was in a state of financial disarray and social angst leading up to the days of Hitler.
PENNYWISE: It was not unlike the 'social strains' seen in conditions leading up to the 1992 LA Race Riots.
SHIVA: Why is criminal insanity so pitiable?
PENNYWISE: When you have no control over your mental faculties, people think you're very weak.
SHIVA: Brains vs. brawn, eh?
PENNYWISE: That's right, and it's an important 'dichotomy' in this modern age of 'tech-imagination'.
SHIVA: If Earth was visited by an alien species, the species might say, "Humanity is vexed by psychiatry!"
PENNYWISE: How much federal funds go into capital punishment and psychiatry resources? Trump!!

====

 

[Meathead]

Pretty stupid, and I'm being diplomatic.

 

[BULLDOG]

Might be an interesting discussion if you didn't always put that dumb script crap in front of it. If you're wanting a job writing for movies, this isn't the best place to get your efforts seen.

 

[Abishai100]

If you're wanting a job writing for movies, this isn't the best place to get your efforts seen.

Why? What's wrong with USMB?

Hehe, no, I'm not trying to make a gimmick, it's easier for me to use scripts to get counter-point presentation flow going (that's just me).

Also, I wanted to make a dialogue scenario to bring up points about mob-psychology (e.g., Nazi Germany) and sleepwalker-homicides (since they're very sensitive topics).

Pardon me if people are aversive to the random avatars I chose (Shiva/Pennywise).

Anyways, here's a non-dialogue 'random question' perhaps relevant to this debate:

"How are American Civil War era slavery-related questions pertinent to discussions regarding federally-mandated human rights issues?"

 

[BULLDOG]

If you're wanting a job writing for movies, this isn't the best place to get your efforts seen.

Why? What's wrong with USMB?

Hehe, no, I'm not trying to make a gimmick, it's easier for me to use scripts to get counter-point presentation flow going (that's just me).

Also, I wanted to make a dialogue scenario to bring up points about mob-psychology (e.g., Nazi Germany) and sleepwalker-homicides (since they're very sensitive topics).

Pardon me if people are aversive to the random avatars I chose (Shiva/Pennywise).

Anyways, here's a non-dialogue 'random question' perhaps relevant to this debate:

"How are American Civil War era slavery-related questions pertinent to discussions regarding federally-mandated human rights issues?"

Not really averse. It's just dumb and impertinent.
I haven't given your question any thought, so I can't say. I'm sure you have, so what are your thoughts?

 

[Abishai100]

I've given it some thought and what occurs to me is that the majority of dialogue surrounding this issue seems to be from the 'death penalty is extreme' argument, but what if we approached the issue from the other side (i.e., cases in which defendants specifically seek pity --- criminal insanity)?

If we approach it from this 'other side,' we might be able to 'link' death penalty issues with other seemingly unrelated issues (with a lot of social consciousness weight behind them) such a Euthanasia and abortion.

I used to do Model Congress in high school where I presented a proposition on abortion-reform that was based purely on economic or medical need (to weed out abortions being used as 'birth control') and it seemed then too that people were arguing simply from one end of the issue --- i.e., 'abortion has to be the concern of the reproductive/pregnant female.' However, abortions are not always considered 'Euthanasia'-like circumstances for the aborted child/fetus.

Regardless, capital punishment is a hairy issue, so I guess the point I was making that it might be profitable to approach the problem from the associative angle (i.e., "Can we link capital punishment to Euthanasia under any model/condition?").

What do you think Bulldog about capital punishment criticisms coming only from the liberal sector of the political population?

 

[jwoodie]

Except in cases of involuntary actions (sleepwalking, duress, etc.), people should be held accountable for their criminal conduct and sentenced accordingly. Other than for the purpose of determining intent for specific crimes (e.g., premeditation), insanity should only be considered when determining an appropriate sentence, not whether a crime has been committed.

 

[BULLDOG]

I've given it some thought and what occurs to me is that the majority of dialogue surrounding this issue seems to be from the 'death penalty is extreme' argument, but what if we approached the issue from the other side (i.e., cases in which defendants specifically seek pity --- criminal insanity)?

If we approach it from this 'other side,' we might be able to 'link' death penalty issues with other seemingly unrelated issues (with a lot of social consciousness weight behind them) such a Euthanasia and abortion.

I used to do Model Congress in high school where I presented a proposition on abortion-reform that was based purely on economic or medical need (to weed out abortions being used as 'birth control') and it seemed then too that people were arguing simply from one end of the issue --- i.e., 'abortion has to be the concern of the reproductive/pregnant female.' However, abortions are not always considered 'Euthanasia'-like circumstances for the aborted child/fetus.

Regardless, capital punishment is a hairy issue, so I guess the point I was making that it might be profitable to approach the problem from the associative angle (i.e., "Can we link capital punishment to Euthanasia under any model/condition?").

What do you think Bulldog about capital punishment criticisms coming only from the liberal sector of the political population?

The wording of your question is slightly ambiguous, but even though opposition to capital punishment is predominantly a liberal issue, it is hardly exclusive to liberals.

 

[jwoodie]

The moral basis for any punishment is an-eye-for-an-eye (i.e., that the criminal should not benefit relative to his crime). Modernly, we have established incarceration and/or fines as equivalent punishment substitutes. In the case of murder, there is no equivalent punishment other than death. However, if this punishment becomes too burdensome to impose in an equitable manner, society has the right to apply lesser penalties for its own benefit, not that of the criminal.

 

[Dan Stubbs]

I've given it some thought and what occurs to me is that the majority of dialogue surrounding this issue seems to be from the 'death penalty is extreme' argument, but what if we approached the issue from the other side (i.e., cases in which defendants specifically seek pity --- criminal insanity)?

If we approach it from this 'other side,' we might be able to 'link' death penalty issues with other seemingly unrelated issues (with a lot of social consciousness weight behind them) such a Euthanasia and abortion.

I used to do Model Congress in high school where I presented a proposition on abortion-reform that was based purely on economic or medical need (to weed out abortions being used as 'birth control') and it seemed then too that people were arguing simply from one end of the issue --- i.e., 'abortion has to be the concern of the reproductive/pregnant female.' However, abortions are not always considered 'Euthanasia'-like circumstances for the aborted child/fetus.

Regardless, capital punishment is a hairy issue, so I guess the point I was making that it might be profitable to approach the problem from the associative angle (i.e., "Can we link capital punishment to Euthanasia under any model/condition?").

What do you think Bulldog about capital punishment criticisms coming only from the liberal sector of the political population?

Use to be on the fence about it until I met and had a conversation with Bundy, yep I really did. This guy eyes were dead and I really watched him like a hawk/. I have no feeling that this man would kill me without blinking a eye. This was when I started to find that some people need to leave this world never to return. I fear no man except people like Ted Bundy and others who are serial killers. They have NO compassion for anyone or for their victims.How many more victims were killed is in question or how many daughters died in horror at just this one mans hands we will never know.

 

[Dan Stubbs]

Except in cases of involuntary actions (sleepwalking, duress, etc.), people should be held accountable for their criminal conduct and sentenced accordingly. Other than for the purpose of determining intent for specific crimes (e.g., premeditation), insanity should only be considered when determining an appropriate sentence, not whether a crime has been committed.

I still say sleep walking murder is a myth cooked up by a lawyer and a shrink to get a dirtbag off

 

[Dan Stubbs]

I've given it some thought and what occurs to me is that the majority of dialogue surrounding this issue seems to be from the 'death penalty is extreme' argument, but what if we approached the issue from the other side (i.e., cases in which defendants specifically seek pity --- criminal insanity)?

If we approach it from this 'other side,' we might be able to 'link' death penalty issues with other seemingly unrelated issues (with a lot of social consciousness weight behind them) such a Euthanasia and abortion.

I used to do Model Congress in high school where I presented a proposition on abortion-reform that was based purely on economic or medical need (to weed out abortions being used as 'birth control') and it seemed then too that people were arguing simply from one end of the issue --- i.e., 'abortion has to be the concern of the reproductive/pregnant female.' However, abortions are not always considered 'Euthanasia'-like circumstances for the aborted child/fetus.

Regardless, capital punishment is a hairy issue, so I guess the point I was making that it might be profitable to approach the problem from the associative angle (i.e., "Can we link capital punishment to Euthanasia under any model/condition?").

What do you think Bulldog about capital punishment criticisms coming only from the liberal sector of the political population?

How about the penalty being given by the family of the victim

 

[esthermoon]

I've given it some thought and what occurs to me is that the majority of dialogue surrounding this issue seems to be from the 'death penalty is extreme' argument, but what if we approached the issue from the other side (i.e., cases in which defendants specifically seek pity --- criminal insanity)?

If we approach it from this 'other side,' we might be able to 'link' death penalty issues with other seemingly unrelated issues (with a lot of social consciousness weight behind them) such a Euthanasia and abortion.

I used to do Model Congress in high school where I presented a proposition on abortion-reform that was based purely on economic or medical need (to weed out abortions being used as 'birth control') and it seemed then too that people were arguing simply from one end of the issue --- i.e., 'abortion has to be the concern of the reproductive/pregnant female.' However, abortions are not always considered 'Euthanasia'-like circumstances for the aborted child/fetus.

Regardless, capital punishment is a hairy issue, so I guess the point I was making that it might be profitable to approach the problem from the associative angle (i.e., "Can we link capital punishment to Euthanasia under any model/condition?").

What do you think Bulldog about capital punishment criticisms coming only from the liberal sector of the political population?

Use to be on the fence about it until I met and had a conversation with Bundy, yep I really did. This guy eyes were dead and I really watched him like a hawk/. I have no feeling that this man would kill me without blinking a eye. This was when I started to find that some people need to leave this world never to return. I fear no man except people like Ted Bundy and others who are serial killers. They have NO compassion for anyone or for their victims.How many more victims were killed is in question or how many daughters died in horror at just this one mans hands we will never know.

Did you really talk to Ted Bundy?

 

[Dan Stubbs]

I've given it some thought and what occurs to me is that the majority of dialogue surrounding this issue seems to be from the 'death penalty is extreme' argument, but what if we approached the issue from the other side (i.e., cases in which defendants specifically seek pity --- criminal insanity)?

If we approach it from this 'other side,' we might be able to 'link' death penalty issues with other seemingly unrelated issues (with a lot of social consciousness weight behind them) such a Euthanasia and abortion.

I used to do Model Congress in high school where I presented a proposition on abortion-reform that was based purely on economic or medical need (to weed out abortions being used as 'birth control') and it seemed then too that people were arguing simply from one end of the issue --- i.e., 'abortion has to be the concern of the reproductive/pregnant female.' However, abortions are not always considered 'Euthanasia'-like circumstances for the aborted child/fetus.

Regardless, capital punishment is a hairy issue, so I guess the point I was making that it might be profitable to approach the problem from the associative angle (i.e., "Can we link capital punishment to Euthanasia under any model/condition?").

What do you think Bulldog about capital punishment criticisms coming only from the liberal sector of the political population?

Use to be on the fence about it until I met and had a conversation with Bundy, yep I really did. This guy eyes were dead and I really watched him like a hawk/. I have no feeling that this man would kill me without blinking a eye. This was when I started to find that some people need to leave this world never to return. I fear no man except people like Ted Bundy and others who are serial killers. They have NO compassion for anyone or for their victims.How many more victims were killed is in question or how many daughters died in horror at just this one mans hands we will never know.

Did you really talk to Ted Bundy?

Yes I did it was a medical escort . He was a very manipulative person you have ever met and from the first time he met you he was looking for weakness.

 

[Abishai100]

I wonder how much 'social consciousness' affects our 'cultural treatment' of the legal world/prestige, especially with the countless vigilantism-daydream comic-book adapted films out there now --- e.g., Batman v. Superman: Dawn of Justice.