Death Panels Plus?

Ah yes, let us just keep everything the same and let the Insurance companies make the decisions. Then we can pay three times as much for even less care than the citizens of the rest of the industrialized nations are getting.
Red herring, Old Dickweed.

Also, Americans pay more because we use more and have have the most abundant of cutting edge technologies, thereby giving us better value for the dollar.
Then one would expect "the most abundant of cutting edge technologies" to translate into America ranking 1st in terms of average life expectancy - instead of 49th (according to the 2010 CIA World Factbook).

Having this "medical expertise" and actually making it available/affordable to the average citizen in a timely matter are 2 different issues and goes to the very heart of the America's healthcare problem.

Only a conservatives, like "Revere," would have the audacity to summarily dismiss as "junk" statistics anything that doesn't support his case - and then sit back and make absolutely no effort to do the necessary resesearch to provide his own!
 
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Forgive me, but just how much did y'all want to spend to keep 100 year olds alive?

Why do you want to kill my 100 year old?

I want to spend as much as I want to spend to keep my 100 year old alive, thank you. And the day the state tells me I may not is the day I take up arms against the state. That is the long and short of it.
 
Insurance is a contract you voluntarily enter into.

They are rioting in Europe because they can't afford their benefits anymore, bumpkin.

It's a myth to expect government will give health care to all.

The stats of health quality, life longevity, and quality of nationalized health care in a dozen industrialized countries rebuke your talking point, Revere.

Stats are meaningless when they are controlled by the state, as they generally are. This is as meaningless as saying "the stats show the US has a much higher infant mortality rate than Ethiopia".... well no shit, because they don't RECORD infant mortality in shitholes.
 
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Insurance is a contract you voluntarily enter into.

They are rioting in Europe because they can't afford their benefits anymore, bumpkin.

It's a myth to expect government will give health care to all.

Maddy is talking reality, Revere, while you talk mindlessnessly, bumpkin. :lol:
 
Nothing in Obama's bill changes the fact that most of us purchase our insurance from private HC insurers.

Some of you seem to think it socializes medicine.

It doesn't.
 
seems clear to me. and you are narrowing the debate to retirees only, they can and do buy supplemental, yes, thats exactly the point, hello, why should they have to? and they will either being paying more if that ability is dissolved have to buy a particular treatment when they need it, if they cannot get it wiht what they will be left with.

Because Medicare is not designed nor is it funded to provide unlimited care. Would you like to fund it in the amounts necessary to provide unlimited care?

Which government program gives everyone all the health care they think they should have?

This is a question that adds no meaning or parameters to the discussion.
 
You decide - excerpts from Duke Professor John Lewiss on what sections of the bill say, and more importantly, mean...


"1. This section amends the Social Security Act. 2. The government has the power to determine what constitutes an 'applicable [medical] condition.' 3. The government has the power to determine who is allowed readmission into a hospital. 4. This determination will be made by statistics: when enough people have been discharged for the same condition, an individual may be readmitted." In other words, there's nothing personal about this. That's why Obama's answer to the woman with the 100-year-old mother, "Are you gonna take into account the spunk and spirit, the will to live?" was, "I don't think we can do that." It's going to be statistic based. "5. This is government rationing, pure, simple, and straight up."

___


"2. Anyone caught without acceptable coverage and not in the government plan will pay a special tax." Now, this we know. We've seen this ourselves. "3. The IRS will be a major enforcement mechanism for the plan," as written in this bill. The IRS will be a major enforcer. The next section that he analyzed: "What constitutes 'acceptable' coverage?"
...Let me read that again: "1. The bill defines 'acceptable coverage' and leaves no room for choice in this regard. 2. By setting a minimum 70% actuarial value of benefits, the bill makes health plans in which individuals pay for routine services" out of their own pockets, "but carry insurance only for catastrophic events ... illegal." That is one of the solutions to the problem we have now. Pay for what you want -- a standard checkup, a standard visit to the doctor -- and catastrophic insurance for when that could break your bank. Doing that will be illegal in the House bill. In other words, paying for your own routine day-to-day services but only having insurance for catastrophic events will be illegal

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"5. The Commissioner (meaning, always, the bureaucrats) will determine whether a particular network of physicians, hospitals and insurance is acceptable" even if you do stay private. "6. With private insurance starved, many people enrolled in the government 'option' will have no place else to go" if they don't like it. So all this talk from Obama about adding to competition is the exact opposite, which is what everybody who's read this understands and which is why they know he's lying to them when he says, "If you like your plan you can keep it." Another way to look at that, "If you like your plan, you can keep it," is: What if everybody decided to do that, but he says the health care plan, the system we have now is unsustainable. It's horrible

____

The evaluation: "1. This section amends the Internal Revenue Code 2. The bill opens up income tax return information to federal officials. 3. Any stated 'limits' to such information are circumvented by item (v), which allows federal officials to decide what information is needed. 4. Employers are required to report whatever information the government says it needs to enforce the plan," meaning your medical records, your employment records, how you're living your life, what kind of risk that's posing to the health care system



What The Health Care Bill Actually Says | Sweetness & Light
In a world of "finite" resources, human history can be reduced to nothing more than an ongoing "rationing" process to determine "who" gets "what!"

Unlike most of its modern comtempoaries, America's healthcare system hasn't progressed beyond the 19th capitalist model based on "ability to pay."

Until the US starts viewing all its citizens as having intrinsic value, rather than expendable commodities in a game of "winners" and "losers," it will continue sowing the seeds of its own demise!

Eventually the "majority" will eventially realize that from the very beginning, the ruling elites in American society have a long history of "stacking" the economic, social and political "deck" - for the benefit of a "chosen few!"
 
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he only political effort to implement death panels since Obama got his health reform.... Facing a billion-dollar-plus budget deficit, the Arizona legislature cut
 

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