"Death Panel"- "Alive and Well"

[Trajan]

Hey PC..what's your take on Jan Brewer..the real live death panel chick.

2 people dead..and counting.

you were just given an example. do you think that this is a one off?

 

[uscitizen]

Yeah, well, nobody ever said they were tribunals everyone went before.

The concept as originally articulated was:

The America I know and love is not one in which my parents or my baby with Down Syndrome will have to stand in front of Obama’s “death panel” so his bureaucrats can decide, based on a subjective judgment of their “level of productivity in society,” whether they are worthy of health care. Such a system is downright evil.​

Now it's apparently become "having prices." The former free marketers have, bizarrely, morphed into communists.

the govt currently pays billions to help suppoprt downs syndrome children. However they seem to get cut off at 21 from all govt support.

Not trying to be cold here, but why should we support downs syndrome children and not other children in need of support?

A woman down the road has downs, is on SS disability and now has 2 other shall we say pretty retarded children who already rewuire special education and such. She is married to a guy who does not have downs but is definately retarded from some cause. Not sure where i am going with this though.... It is just such a no win mess...

 

[auditor0007]

Humana and other HMO's and insurance companies have been rationing health care for decades.

Glad to see that you understand that this is the rationing of healthcare.

What you don't understand is that one or several private companies rationing same, as one can change companies or move to a different state,is
hardly the same as the entire nation on that 'page.'

The OP illustrates exactly that.

That would be wonderful if that is how it actually worked, but that is not how it works. First of all, most people have their insurance tied to their employer. To purchase a private policy would be much more expensive, but that really doesn't even matter because if they were trying to switch insurance under this scenario, it would be due to being denied coverage for a pre-existing condition. That is not the person other insurance companies will be jumping at to insure.

 

[auditor0007]

Death panels have been around since the incorporation of the first health insurance company.
Just yesterday my sister with lung cancer at age 61 was pushed on Medicare by the death panel at United Health Care Health Insurance Co. She is a retiree from AT&T.
Peggy had ovarian cancer in 2004, had to takd chemo for a long time and took off a year per doctor's instructions. AT&T forced her to file for disability and she drew it for 6 months. She then went back to work for 5 years and retired from there with full benefits in 2009.
Now at the time of the cancer she had BC/BS and then Aetna in 2006-2008 at AT&T. They changed to UHC after she retired. UHC is taking the position that she retired because of a disability which was the result of the ovarian cancer. There is a provision under the law where they can do this if Medicare accepts her. Problem is she DOES NOT WANT MEDICARE. She wants UHC to pay all of the radiation therapy-23 days-chemo-once a week for 5 weeks and followup operation on the right lung after the tumor is shrunk by the radiation.
After setting up this entire scenario the last 3 weeks every day, I do it as I am the only sibling with the time and resources to do it, now we have to change EVERYTHING because the pulmonologist, the oncologist, the surgeon and the radiation doctor ALL don't accept Medicare. They are all within 5 miles of where she lives. Now we have to redo all of this and spend another 3 weeks going to Medicare accepting doctors 40 miles away, do all of the preliminary visits, the consultations, the information to fill out, etc. Good news is UHC will be the secondary policy.
This is the real world and I am seeing this hard ball game being played now as an employee of mine is having extreme problems with my health insurance provider on a claim filed on behalf of one of his children.
You can't fault the doctors as they want to get paid. Bottom line: The current system is no better or no worse than government. In fact, my broker that sells a ton of senior supplement insurance says that Medicare is easier to deal with than most insurance companies.
Anyone that is self employed, has small businesses like I do or has a family member seriously ill lives in the real world when it comes to insurance. I pay over 35K on health insurance just for one of my corporations and have seen the coverage disintegrate to nothing over the last 10 years with 10K deductible on each employee. I match them dollar for dollar if they want lower deductibles and one does that.
Fact is every day insurance companies make a life and death decision like they did with my sister. Some call them death panels and some call them decision makers. Who knows but fact is this is no different than government doing it. She has a 6 cm tumor in the airway of her right lung and needs radiation and chemo immediately. I am meeting with all of the doctors today and tomorrow to beg. We do not want charity but want what is right.
Something the insurance companies, or death panels as many would call them, do not care about.

This just brings us to another subject; what makes anyone think that private insurers want to even attempt to insure our retirees on Medicare, even with the government paying $8000 of the premium? Would we force insurance companies to insure all of our retirees? Paul Ryan's Medicare plan has not addressed any of these issues.

 

[auditor0007]

Death panels have been around since the incorporation of the first health insurance company.
Just yesterday my sister with lung cancer at age 61 was pushed on Medicare by the death panel at United Health Care Health Insurance Co. She is a retiree from AT&T.
Peggy had ovarian cancer in 2004, had to takd chemo for a long time and took off a year per doctor's instructions. AT&T forced her to file for disability and she drew it for 6 months. She then went back to work for 5 years and retired from there with full benefits in 2009.
Now at the time of the cancer she had BC/BS and then Aetna in 2006-2008 at AT&T. They changed to UHC after she retired. UHC is taking the position that she retired because of a disability which was the result of the ovarian cancer. There is a provision under the law where they can do this if Medicare accepts her. Problem is she DOES NOT WANT MEDICARE. She wants UHC to pay all of the radiation therapy-23 days-chemo-once a week for 5 weeks and followup operation on the right lung after the tumor is shrunk by the radiation.
After setting up this entire scenario the last 3 weeks every day, I do it as I am the only sibling with the time and resources to do it, now we have to change EVERYTHING because the pulmonologist, the oncologist, the surgeon and the radiation doctor ALL don't accept Medicare. They are all within 5 miles of where she lives. Now we have to redo all of this and spend another 3 weeks going to Medicare accepting doctors 40 miles away, do all of the preliminary visits, the consultations, the information to fill out, etc. Good news is UHC will be the secondary policy.
This is the real world and I am seeing this hard ball game being played now as an employee of mine is having extreme problems with my health insurance provider on a claim filed on behalf of one of his children.
You can't fault the doctors as they want to get paid. Bottom line: The current system is no better or no worse than government. In fact, my broker that sells a ton of senior supplement insurance says that Medicare is easier to deal with than most insurance companies.
Anyone that is self employed, has small businesses like I do or has a family member seriously ill lives in the real world when it comes to insurance. I pay over 35K on health insurance just for one of my corporations and have seen the coverage disintegrate to nothing over the last 10 years with 10K deductible on each employee. I match them dollar for dollar if they want lower deductibles and one does that.
Fact is every day insurance companies make a life and death decision like they did with my sister. Some call them death panels and some call them decision makers. Who knows but fact is this is no different than government doing it. She has a 6 cm tumor in the airway of her right lung and needs radiation and chemo immediately. I am meeting with all of the doctors today and tomorrow to beg. We do not want charity but want what is right.
Something the insurance companies, or death panels as many would call them, do not care about.

BTW, sorry about your sister. I hope she gets the medical care she deserves.

 

[The Infidel]

Obama administration eases pain of Medicare cuts - USATODAY.com

Independent Payment Advisory Board (IPAB)

IPAB is the death panel.


IPAB is the rationing of health care.... It has 15 members appointed by the President. Its recommendations for cuts in Medicare services or for reductions in reimbursement will not be subject to congressional approval but will take effect by administrative fiat

Hmmmm, imagine that

an irrelevant Congress

 

[Wiseacre]

Obama administration eases pain of Medicare cuts - USATODAY.com

Independent Payment Advisory Board (IPAB)

IPAB is the death panel.


IPAB is the rationing of health care.... It has 15 members appointed by the President. Its recommendations for cuts in Medicare services or for reductions in reimbursement will not be subject to congressional approval but will take effect by administrative fiat

Hmmmm, imagine that

an irrelevant Congress

??? The link doesn't have anything to do with the IPAB. Thought this line in there was pretty funny though:

" The administration says the reason for the bonuses is quality improvement, not politics, "

Yeah, right.


About the IPAB, will they have authority to set guidleines for who gets certain medical treatments? I know they can set the prices, as a way of holding down the costs. Not sure what else they can do. Obama has not been too clear about that IMHO.

 

[The T]

Obama administration eases pain of Medicare cuts - USATODAY.com

Independent Payment Advisory Board (IPAB)

IPAB is the death panel.


IPAB is the rationing of health care.... It has 15 members appointed by the President. Its recommendations for cuts in Medicare services or for reductions in reimbursement will not be subject to congressional approval but will take effect by administrative fiat

Hmmmm, imagine that

an irrelevant Congress

??? The link doesn't have anything to do with the IPAB. Thought this line in there was pretty funny though:

" The administration says the reason for the bonuses is quality improvement, not politics, "

Yeah, right.


About the IPAB, will they have authority to set guidleines for who gets certain medical treatments? I know they can set the prices, as a way of holding down the costs. Not sure what else they can do. Obama has not been too clear about that IMHO.

It shifts power away from CONGRESS...toward the President. it's a power grab.

Congressional Researchers Question IPAB

 

[The T]

no, you really can't change companies or move states.

once an insurance company begins denying your claims you can be damn sure another isn't going to welcome you with open arms and start approving them.

"...you can be damn sure another isn't going to ...start approving them."


Did you find this in that black 'crystal ball' we used as kids?

i'd like to enhance your vocabulary. there's a nice little phrase insurance companies like to use, you may have heard of it before. it's "pre-existing condition." Look into it.

So they move on until the get what they are looking for. What you propose to do is take what you deem as wrong, and replace it with a panel of Gubmint bureaucrats that are unelected which is a larger wrong.

Government has NO business in this.

 

[Gadawg73]

When blank check health care costs consume 40% of GNP and 1/2 of the US budget for Medicare what other alternative other than rationing is there?
I find it amusing the foolish so called "conservsatives" here, most probably never have employed anyone or owned any businesses, call for cuts this and that in government yet when any cuts would come in Medicare or any other funded health program they ignorantly call the departments that may decide on those cuts "death panels".
So which is it?

 

[Toronado3800]

1. As more Americans delve into the disturbing details of the nationalized health care plan that the current administration is rushing through Congress, our collective jaw is dropping, and we're saying not just no, but hell no! The Democrats promise that a government health care system will reduce the cost of health care, but as the economist Thomas Sowell has pointed out, government health care will not reduce the cost; it will simply refuse to pay the cost. And who will suffer the most when they ration care? The sick, the elderly, and the disabled, of course. Palin: Obama's "Death Panel" Could Kill My Down Syndrome Baby

2. Fifteen-month-old Joseph Maraachli, known to the world as “Baby Joseph,” is being transported from SSM Cardinal Glennon Children’s Medical Center in St. Louis, where he received a tracheotomy last month, the Windsor Star reports. He will arrive in Windsor, Ontario, on Thursday.

His parents, Moe Maraachli and Sana Nader, wanted the boy to undergo the tracheotomy so that he could spend his remaining days at home. London Health Sciences Center refused to perform the procedure, saying it had too many complication risks and would be too invasive, the Windsor Star reports.

Joseph’s parents appealed to the Canadian courts, but the courts sided with the hospital. The boy was then taken by Fr. Frank Pavone and other Priests of Life staff to Cardinal Glennon Children’s Hospital, where doctors agreed to treat him and eventually performed his tracheotomy.

Priests of Life has covered all of the family’s medical bills while Joseph underwent treatment in the U.S. and will also cover the costs of Joseph’s flight home, the Windsor Star reports.

'Baby Joseph' Flying Home to Canada - FoxNews.com

Really I don't think the difference will be quite as dramatic as the reality TV show queen claims.

Not quite a death panel but I was in a hospital in St Louis the other week and my private insurance tried to ration my healthcare. Turns our if I wanted the 1990's technology cast for my kid I had to pay the difference out of pocket. Aetna only wanted to pay for the 1940's era plaster cast even though we all know the new one is better.

 

[Gadawg73]

1. As more Americans delve into the disturbing details of the nationalized health care plan that the current administration is rushing through Congress, our collective jaw is dropping, and we're saying not just no, but hell no! The Democrats promise that a government health care system will reduce the cost of health care, but as the economist Thomas Sowell has pointed out, government health care will not reduce the cost; it will simply refuse to pay the cost. And who will suffer the most when they ration care? The sick, the elderly, and the disabled, of course. Palin: Obama's "Death Panel" Could Kill My Down Syndrome Baby

2. Fifteen-month-old Joseph Maraachli, known to the world as “Baby Joseph,” is being transported from SSM Cardinal Glennon Children’s Medical Center in St. Louis, where he received a tracheotomy last month, the Windsor Star reports. He will arrive in Windsor, Ontario, on Thursday.

His parents, Moe Maraachli and Sana Nader, wanted the boy to undergo the tracheotomy so that he could spend his remaining days at home. London Health Sciences Center refused to perform the procedure, saying it had too many complication risks and would be too invasive, the Windsor Star reports.

Joseph’s parents appealed to the Canadian courts, but the courts sided with the hospital. The boy was then taken by Fr. Frank Pavone and other Priests of Life staff to Cardinal Glennon Children’s Hospital, where doctors agreed to treat him and eventually performed his tracheotomy.

Priests of Life has covered all of the family’s medical bills while Joseph underwent treatment in the U.S. and will also cover the costs of Joseph’s flight home, the Windsor Star reports.

'Baby Joseph' Flying Home to Canada - FoxNews.com

Really I don't think the difference will be quite as dramatic as the reality TV show queen claims.

Not quite a death panel but I was in a hospital in St Louis the other week and my private insurance tried to ration my healthcare. Turns our if I wanted the 1990's technology cast for my kid I had to pay the difference out of pocket. Aetna only wanted to pay for the 1940's era plaster cast even though we all know the new one is better.

You have to forgive these folks here. Their employer or someone else funds their group health insurance, they do not employ anyone, do not own any businesses and have no clue how the fundamentals of health insurance works.

 

[Momanohedhunter]

Death panels exist now, and will exist in any solution to HC that anybody comes up with.

Get over it.

This is true. Just look at the process for getting an organ transplant. Need factors into it, but being able to pay has more bearing on weather or not you get the organ . then there are the physical considerations.