Death and politics

[AmyNation]

What is with the recent fear mongering of the elderly? Both the left and the right have been playing off this "the other guys are going to kill grandma" rhetoric. Ive noticed an honest fear from many people that we as a nation are on the cusp of viewing the elderly as useless and putting them down like pets. Are the elderly just easy prey or has there always been this fear and the political parties are just now tapping into it?

 

[xsited1]

You've gotta admit the ads are funny:

 

[buckeye45_73]

Well people can live longer now, but it comes with an increase in medical attention. The problem is you have to look at the details. REpublicans would rather people buy stuff on their own, with their money or vouchers from the government. This does reduce prices, since if no one can afford it, why bother. When you have government insurance, it's not their money and noone cares about cost....hence they go up

With the democrats, the problem is they think of everything in terms of money (funding, investment, it's all the same) so they think that people using healthcare after say 70 is a waste of money and they're gonna die soon anyway, so why spend the cash on it, which is were the story of death panels and such comes from. It didnt help that Obama showed no compassion for a lady's mother and told her to just take a pain pill

 

[AmyNation]

You've gotta admit the ads are funny:

Granny Off the Cliff Part 2 - YouTube

True

 

[AmyNation]

Well people can live longer now, but it comes with an increase in medical attention. The problem is you have to look at the details. REpublicans would rather people buy stuff on their own, with their money or vouchers from the government. This does reduce prices, since if no one can afford it, why bother. When you have government insurance, it's not their money and noone cares about cost....hence they go up

With the democrats, the problem is they think of everything in terms of money (funding, investment, it's all the same) so they think that people using healthcare after say 70 is a waste of money and they're gonna die soon anyway, so why spend the cash on it, which is were the story of death panels and such comes from. It didnt help that Obama showed no compassion for a lady's mother and told her to just take a pain pill

No one wants to kill grandma. Not democrats, not republicans. There are no death panels and no one will be pushing grandma off a cliff.

 

[buckeye45_73]

Well people can live longer now, but it comes with an increase in medical attention. The problem is you have to look at the details. REpublicans would rather people buy stuff on their own, with their money or vouchers from the government. This does reduce prices, since if no one can afford it, why bother. When you have government insurance, it's not their money and noone cares about cost....hence they go up

With the democrats, the problem is they think of everything in terms of money (funding, investment, it's all the same) so they think that people using healthcare after say 70 is a waste of money and they're gonna die soon anyway, so why spend the cash on it, which is were the story of death panels and such comes from. It didnt help that Obama showed no compassion for a lady's mother and told her to just take a pain pill

No one wants to kill grandma. Not democrats, not republicans. There are no death panels and no one will be pushing grandma off a cliff.

I'd like to believe that, the problem is you have people that dont value life they way they used to, so be careful of it. You have people thinking it's ok to kill babies (the born kind) because they have a disease or a handicap. Those kinds of people are all about efficiency and grandma isnt very efficient

Top doctor's chilling claim: The NHS kills off 130,000 elderly patients every year | Mail Online

Killing babies no different from abortion, experts say - Telegraph

Now we havent been like that in the US, but be very careful of this kind of thinking, and they wont spring it on us at once, they'll slowly incorporate it and make it "Sound" logical

 

[Black_Label]

Well people can live longer now, but it comes with an increase in medical attention. The problem is you have to look at the details. REpublicans would rather people buy stuff on their own, with their money or vouchers from the government. This does reduce prices, since if no one can afford it, why bother. When you have government insurance, it's not their money and noone cares about cost....hence they go up

With the democrats, the problem is they think of everything in terms of money (funding, investment, it's all the same) so they think that people using healthcare after say 70 is a waste of money and they're gonna die soon anyway, so why spend the cash on it, which is were the story of death panels and such comes from. It didnt help that Obama showed no compassion for a lady's mother and told her to just take a pain pill

There are no death panels and no one will be pushing grandma off a cliff.

Not unless the GOP gets in control,...

 

[AmyNation]

Well people can live longer now, but it comes with an increase in medical attention. The problem is you have to look at the details. REpublicans would rather people buy stuff on their own, with their money or vouchers from the government. This does reduce prices, since if no one can afford it, why bother. When you have government insurance, it's not their money and noone cares about cost....hence they go up

With the democrats, the problem is they think of everything in terms of money (funding, investment, it's all the same) so they think that people using healthcare after say 70 is a waste of money and they're gonna die soon anyway, so why spend the cash on it, which is were the story of death panels and such comes from. It didnt help that Obama showed no compassion for a lady's mother and told her to just take a pain pill

No one wants to kill grandma. Not democrats, not republicans. There are no death panels and no one will be pushing grandma off a cliff.

I'd like to believe that, the problem is you have people that dont value life they way they used to, so be careful of it. You have people thinking it's ok to kill babies (the born kind) because they have a disease or a handicap. Those kinds of people are all about efficiency and grandma isnt very efficient

Top doctor's chilling claim: The NHS kills off 130,000 elderly patients every year | Mail Online

Killing babies no different from abortion, experts say - Telegraph

Now we havent been like that in the US, but be very careful of this kind of thinking, and they wont spring it on us at once, they'll slowly incorporate it and make it "Sound" logical

Fear.mongering.

I do think you can't address healthcare costs without admitting that the bulk of what we spend as a nation, is directed at end of life care. And we do need to talk about how insurance hasn't been able to keep up with medical advancements. However that is not saying that we want to just let grandma die.

 

[buckeye45_73]

No one wants to kill grandma. Not democrats, not republicans. There are no death panels and no one will be pushing grandma off a cliff.

I'd like to believe that, the problem is you have people that dont value life they way they used to, so be careful of it. You have people thinking it's ok to kill babies (the born kind) because they have a disease or a handicap. Those kinds of people are all about efficiency and grandma isnt very efficient

Top doctor's chilling claim: The NHS kills off 130,000 elderly patients every year | Mail Online

Killing babies no different from abortion, experts say - Telegraph

Now we havent been like that in the US, but be very careful of this kind of thinking, and they wont spring it on us at once, they'll slowly incorporate it and make it "Sound" logical

Fear.mongering.

I do think you can't address healthcare costs without admitting that the bulk of what we spend as a nation, is directed at end of life care. And we do need to talk about how insurance hasn't been able to keep up with medical advancements. However that is not saying that we want to just let grandma die.

No, that's a start. Nothing wrong with that. The issue is with costs, most old people are on medicare, and there is no incentive to keep prices down, why? Because it's like monopoly money to people. Mdos will overcharge and the government doesnt care, they just tack in on the deficit. That part needs to be fixed, pronto. One way is to let people shop for care, which is why Im against monopolies, there is no price control with them.

 

[Greenbeard]

The issue is with costs, most old people are on medicare, and there is no incentive to keep prices down, why? Because it's like monopoly money to people. Mdos will overcharge and the government doesnt care, they just tack in on the deficit.

Not quite.

Uwe E. Reinhardt: Medicare's Soviet Label - NYTimes.com

 

[buckeye45_73]

The issue is with costs, most old people are on medicare, and there is no incentive to keep prices down, why? Because it's like monopoly money to people. Mdos will overcharge and the government doesnt care, they just tack in on the deficit.

Not quite.

Uwe E. Reinhardt: Medicare's Soviet Label - NYTimes.com

So the government sets prices, based on what? You still have a lack of competition and a body of people who dont care about the cost. Which is why on medicare you get less of a cost benefit. I work in a pharmacy and medicare royally sucks. They have to pay for their own pumps for certain medications and their copays are much higher than private insurance.

 

[Mr Natural]

"Soylent Green is people!"

 

[Mac1958]

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We've reached a point in which both ends of the spectrum will say absolutely, positively ANYTHING, period, if they think it will give them even the slightest advantage for even a moment.

I don't know how we're supposed to overcome this.

.

 

[Greenbeard]

So the government sets prices, based on what?

Reinhardt to the rescue again: How Medicare Sets Hospital Prices: A Primer and How Medicare Pays Physicians.

You still have a lack of competition and a body of people who dont care about the cost. Which is why on medicare you get less of a cost benefit. I work in a pharmacy and medicare royally sucks. They have to pay for their own pumps for certain medications and their copays are much higher than private insurance.

Who is the "body of people" now? Earlier you suggested providers can just bill Medicare whatever they please and they'll be paid it, but that isn't so. Are you talking now about Medicare beneficiaries? Is so, why would they not care about costs if, as you're suggesting, they're on the hook for paying more out of pocket (and, thus, presumably have an incentive to be more cost-conscious)? If it's coming out of old folks' pockets, that's the opposite of "it's like monopoly money to people."

 

[AmyNation]

.

We've reached a point in which both ends of the spectrum will say absolutely, positively ANYTHING, period, if they think it will give them even the slightest advantage for even a moment.

I don't know how we're supposed to overcome this.

.

I think we have crossed a line in several areas. 1st, you would never see reporters taking talking points from parties, now you've got CNN and fox casters just boldly reading DNC/RNC memos. If crazy lies were told, they came from the extremes of the party, we're condemned by the canidates and were only believed by the most gullible. Now you can spot those lies straight from either canidates mouth and from the heads of the parties, and half the time find them on your news network before they bother to fact check.