Dear Candidate: What if growth was over?

[JiggsCasey]

I'll bite.


Dear Concerned Constituent,

I appreciate your input into the legislative process and want you to know that anonymous internet posters have always had my support. You ask what can your Congress do in the event that, for the foreseeable future, growth is going to be scare. Let me lay out my five point plan for you.

1. Take a tip from China. If a commie can grow a free market, the old US of A oughta be able to come up with a one child policy. If you join in a group marriage with a non-producing gay couple, you get two. Free tubal ligations and vasectomies, with the ace in the hole of introducing birth control into the drinking water.

2. If we are going to go into debt, lets get something for it. I want to see every semi-possible virtuoso engineering feat possible. Lets get geosynched microwave relay stations harvesting just outside of the exosphere (doubling as a shield for planetary cooling), mine the thermosphere, harvest the vast energies of ocean and core. We have the tech now to harvest the asteroid belt if we had the long-term mindset.

3. I will pledge to make it your patriotic duty to be as self-sustaining as possible. Window-farming, passive house construction standards, bio-diesel and electric transportation, a victory farm in every back yard.

4. Open season in human genome engineering. We'll put the labs on the space stations in case something goes horribly wrong.

5. Kill a shitload of foreigners. If we can replicate the one-two punch of HIV and civil conflict in Africa across the ME and Asia, we can knock out some of the resource competition.

As always, I remain your humble public servant.

Congressperson,


snjmom

Advocating genocide of brown people not only won't get you elected, but demonized for the rest of your life.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Wait, do Progressives that Earth based hydro carbons only come from pressure cooked velicoraptors? Is that what's driving the hysteria?

Still desperately clinging to that long-debunked Cold War, Russian abiotic oil theory are ya?



Irony...

Well, you're not called CONservatives without reason.

Debunked? LOL Yeah, because you say so

Still ignoring that the US Space Program has demolished and made a total mockery of the idea that hydrocarbons come from pressure cooked velicoraptors?

Hydrocarbon lake finally confirmed on Titan | COSMOS magazine

You have to be a total idiot to believe that Earth is the only planet in the solar system that needs dinosaurs to create hydrocarbons.

 

[8537]

Wait, do Progressives that Earth based hydro carbons only come from pressure cooked velicoraptors? Is that what's driving the hysteria?

Still desperately clinging to that long-debunked Cold War, Russian abiotic oil theory are ya?



Irony...

Well, you're not called CONservatives without reason.

Debunked? LOL Yeah, because you say so

Still ignoring that the US Space Program has demolished and made a total mockery of the idea that hydrocarbons come from pressure cooked velicoraptors?

Hydrocarbon lake finally confirmed on Titan | COSMOS magazine

You have to be a total idiot to believe that Earth is the only planet in the solar system that needs dinosaurs to create hydrocarbons.

Speaking of idiots, Frank....No one denies that it is possible to generate hydrocarbons without the presence of Dinosaurs. I don't know where you ever learned such a stupid thing, but you should demand your money back.

of course, it's quite obvious why you didn't bother to quote the article you linked. Doing so would actually offer dear reader an honest explanation of the origin of those hydrocarbons on Titan, as opposed to hydrocarbons on earth:

Ethane and several other simple hydrocarbons have been identified in Titan's atmosphere, which consists of 95 per cent nitrogen, and five per cent methane and other hydrocarbons, including ethane. These are created by the breakdown of methane by sunlight, and some react further to form fine aerosol particles.

 

[JiggsCasey]

Debunked? LOL Yeah, because you say so

Wrong, tool box... Because the overwhelming majority of non-Russian scientists the past 60 years say so.

Still ignoring that the US Space Program has demolished and made a total mockery of the idea that hydrocarbons come from pressure cooked velicoraptors?

Hydrocarbon lake finally confirmed on Titan | COSMOS magazine

You have to be a total idiot to believe that Earth is the only planet in the solar system that needs dinosaurs to create hydrocarbons.

Yeah, dude, they also found traces of alcohol clouds in deep space. That must mean that Budweiser comes from rain. This is such typical bone-headed 'drill baby drill' rationale, finding an anecdote, clinging to it, and never examining real science. You guys are such tools.

There are some huge problems explaining a pile of things when it comes to abiogenic oil. While it seems clear that at least SOME hydrocarbon reserves are not from "traditional" biological deposits, saying most- or all- are abiogenic just doesn't fly. For one thing, the pristane and phytane components would have to be explained away - ditto with why there are higher concentrations of molecules with even numbered carbons in their backbone than odd numbered carbons. The even-numbered carbons fits a biological source, while a ratio closer to parity would be more readily explained by an abiogenic origin- why would abiogenic oil have less C7, C9, C11... than C6, C8, C10...? It just doesn't jibe.

Bear in mind that oil can travel very far from its reservoir rock, which is one reason it might be found in old volcanic rocks. That doesn't mean people have gotten rich sticking wells into volcanic necks; the oil just isn't there.

Regardless... biotic, abiotic in origin... Who gives a crap? ... The relevant question: Where the F is it? And don't say Alberta Tar Sands.

 

[loosecannon]

Eeegads.

I am not a chemist, but I get your point, dildo.

The bottom line is that the history of the industrialization of the human race has been one of tapping and depleting one virgin energy resource after another, always taking never giving, no efforts made toward sustainable platforms. Just reaping and not sowing.

This will become impossible unless we make a quantum leap, change our habits, or reverse the population curve dramatically.

None of those three seems likely. What seems likely is forced depopulation. Due to scarcity.

To dismiss that possibility is beyond arrogant or foolish.

It is crazy. Insane. The ramblings of the walking dead.

 

[Oddball]

You really are dumber than a bag of hammers, to go along with that sullen Chicken Little disposition, aren't you?

1) First off, technology doesn't stand still. Even though I've already stated this obvious fact, it bears repeating.

2) Nobody knows what the next leap in technology will be...That's why it's a technological leap. The doom-and-gloomery of global population cataclysm pimps like Malthus and Ehrlich have always overlooked this basic fact.

3) The more technologically advanced a society, the lower the birth rate...When coupled with the increased efficiencies better technology provides, a net lower demand on resources, for a given unit of production, results.

4) The arrogance, craziness, insanity and foolhardiness is all at your end, Skippy.

 

[loosecannon]

You really are dumber than a bag of hammers, to go along with that sullen Chicken Little disposition, aren't you?

1) First off, technology doesn't stand still. Even though I've already stated this obvious fact, it bears repeating.

2) Nobody knows what the next leap in technology will be...That's why it's a technological leap. The doom-and-gloomery of global population cataclysm pimps like Malthus and Ehrlich have always overlooked this basic fact.

3) The more technologically advanced a society, the lower the birth rate...When coupled with the increased efficiencies better technology provides, a net lower demand on resources, for a given unit of production, results.

4) The arrogance, craziness, insanity and foolhardiness is all at your end, Skippy.

You wish, dildo.

And there has been no example yet of ".When coupled with the increased efficiencies better technology provides, a net lower demand on resources, for a given unit of production, results. " Quite the opposite.

and most of the world hasn't yet figured out the lower birth rate you speak of.

But lastly and mostly you treat the earth as if it was fully expendable simply for the purpose of maxing out human population.

Foolishly immune to the prospect that billions of years of genetic evolution is being irreparably damaged beyond what we and our technology could ever repair.

And this isn't an eco system, it is our life support system.

You act as if we can merely simulate another one if EVERY current trend reverses: population growth, unsustainable consumption, birth rate, technology surpassing instead of always lagging our insatiable demand and lack of discipline.


But then again you are clearly crazy as a LOON.

Once the cheap oil is gone and the cheap nat gas is gone, lights out. Deal with it.

 

[8537]

When coupled with the increased efficiencies better technology provides, a net lower demand on resources, for a given unit of production, results.

Once again, your own economics fail you. First, it's a physical fact of nature that any marginal increase in output requires a greater marginal increase in inputs.

Second, becoming more efficient doesn't lead to us producing the same number of units in a more efficient manner. It leads to us producing more units, increasing inputs.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Still desperately clinging to that long-debunked Cold War, Russian abiotic oil theory are ya?



Irony...

Well, you're not called CONservatives without reason.

Debunked? LOL Yeah, because you say so

Still ignoring that the US Space Program has demolished and made a total mockery of the idea that hydrocarbons come from pressure cooked velicoraptors?

Hydrocarbon lake finally confirmed on Titan | COSMOS magazine

You have to be a total idiot to believe that Earth is the only planet in the solar system that needs dinosaurs to create hydrocarbons.

Speaking of idiots, Frank....No one denies that it is possible to generate hydrocarbons without the presence of Dinosaurs. I don't know where you ever learned such a stupid thing, but you should demand your money back.

of course, it's quite obvious why you didn't bother to quote the article you linked. Doing so would actually offer dear reader an honest explanation of the origin of those hydrocarbons on Titan, as opposed to hydrocarbons on earth:

Ethane and several other simple hydrocarbons have been identified in Titan's atmosphere, which consists of 95 per cent nitrogen, and five per cent methane and other hydrocarbons, including ethane. These are created by the breakdown of methane by sunlight, and some react further to form fine aerosol particles.

We're you trying to destroy yourself in a single sentence? Yes, that's my point, Earth is at least an order of magnitude more chemically active than freezing Moon like Titan.

Stick to stuff you think you know, like how the New Deal saved the USA from capitalism.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Just because Baghdad Ben can't see an end in sight, doesn't mean that there isn't one.

Like I said, there doesn't seem to be a doom-and-gloom end-of-the-world-as-we-know-it scenario that the gullible and conspiracy theorists won't buy into.

Obviously...........


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egqqCYSfV2k]YouTube - Bush, Cheney, PNAC, & The Criminal Conspiracy To Invade Iraq[/ame]​

 

[8537]

We're you trying to destroy yourself in a single sentence?

Whatever does that sentence mean?

Yes, that's my point, Earth is at least an order of magnitude more chemically active than freezing Moon like Titan.

Stick to stuff you think you know, like how the New Deal saved the USA from capitalism.

The Earth produces hydrocarbons through a process involving organic matter. With the exception of a few Soviet-Era communists and some gullible Crusader Franks, that is accepted fact.

of course, the article you link described the process on Titan. Can you show us a similar process on earth where pools of this gas are found as liquid?

You should stick to stuff you know, like...well...I have no idea what.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

We're you trying to destroy yourself in a single sentence?

Whatever does that sentence mean?

Yes, that's my point, Earth is at least an order of magnitude more chemically active than freezing Moon like Titan.

Stick to stuff you think you know, like how the New Deal saved the USA from capitalism.

The Earth produces hydrocarbons through a process involving organic matter. With the exception of a few Soviet-Era communists and some gullible Crusader Franks, that is accepted fact.

of course, the article you link described the process on Titan. Can you show us a similar process on earth where pools of this gas are found as liquid?

You should stick to stuff you know, like...well...I have no idea what.

I mean you keep defeating yourself with each new post, like the one above.

On planet Earth Methane's natural state is a gas, it only turns liquid at about -160C (that's pretty fucking cold, right? I mean we'd need a New Deal Program to make some place on Earth cold enough to naturally support a liquid methane program)

Methane - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Extraterrestrial methane

Methane has been detected or is believed to exist in several locations of the solar system. It is believed to have been created by abiotic processes, with the possible exception of Mars.

* Moon – traces are outgassed from the surface[24]
* Mars – the atmosphere contains 10 ppb methane. In January 2009, NASA scientists announced that they had discovered that the planet often vents methane into the atmosphere in specific areas, leading some to speculate this may be a sign of biological activity going on below the surface.[25]
* Jupiter – the atmosphere contains about 0.3% methane
* Saturn – the atmosphere contains about 0.4% methane
o Iapetus
o Titan — the atmosphere contains 1.6% methane and thousands of methane lakes have been detected on the surface[26]
o Enceladus – the atmosphere contains 1.7% methane[27]
* Uranus – the atmosphere contains 2.3% methane
o Ariel – methane is believed to be a constituent of Ariel's surface ice
o Miranda
o Oberon – about 20% of Oberon's surface ice is composed of methane-related carbon/nitrogen compounds
o Titania – about 20% of Titania's surface ice is composed of methane-related organic compounds
o Umbriel – methane is a constituent of Umbriel's surface ice
* Neptune – the atmosphere contains 1.6% methane
o Triton – Triton has a tenuous nitrogen atmosphere with small amounts of methane near the surface.[28][29]
* Pluto – spectroscopic analysis of Pluto's surface reveals it to contain traces of methane[30][31]
o Charon – methane is believed to be present on Charon, but it is not completely confirmed[32]
* Eris – infrared light from the object revealed the presence of methane ice
* Comet Halley
* Comet Hyakutake – terrestrial observations found ethane and methane in the comet[33]
* Extrasolar planet HD 189733b – This is the first detection of an organic compound on a planet outside the solar system. Its origin is unknown, since the planet's high temperature (700 °C) would normally favor the formation of carbon monoxide instead.[34]
* Interstellar clouds[35]"

Like many, many others, you think organic chemistry needs organic material. Just because methane and other hydrocarbons are "organic" does not mean they come from pressure cooked dinosaurs.

You see how silly your notion that only Earth needs living organic material to make hydrocarbons, right?

 

[Douger]

Follow-up questions:

1. Is there a reason why this kind of letter shouldn't be sent to real people who want our vote?

2a. Would a candidate addressing these issues/questions stand any chance of winning?

2b. If not, might such a candidate, even in a losing effort, influence the election issues and as a result positively impact transition efforts away from growth based economy?

1. They could care less.
2a. No. They win because of what party the sheep lean towards at voting time. Credentials are 100% irrelevant. " My great granpappy were a ________, so were my daddy and so is I.
2b. See 2a

 

[8537]

What if we found ways to increase the rate in which our replenishable resources regenerate?

Already been done...This is another thing that the Malthusian declinists refuse to take into consideration.

1900
41 percent of workforce employed in agriculture
1930
21.5 percent of workforce employed in agriculture;
Agricultural GDP as a share of total GDP, 7.7 percent
1945
16 percent of the total labor force employed in agriculture;
Agricultural GDP as a share of total GDP, 6.8 percent
1970
4 percent of employed labor force worked in agriculture;
Agricultural GDP as a share of total GDP, 2.3 percent
2000/02
1.9 percent of employed labor force worked in agriculture (2000); Agricultural GDP as a share of total GDP (2002),
0.7 percent

The 20th Century Transformation of U.S. Agriculture and Farm Policy

At the same time, the production from American farms went through the roof.

Do you know the primary ingredient in the massive expansion of farm productivity? Haber-Bosch nitrogen fixing.

You know the primary input into Haber-Bosch? Oil.

 

[8537]

Like many, many others, you think organic chemistry needs organic material. Just because methane and other hydrocarbons are "organic" does not mean they come from pressure cooked dinosaurs.

You see how silly your notion that only Earth needs living organic material to make hydrocarbons, right?

I can only conclude that you don't read posts, you just add inane replies based on keywords.

Here, let's review. A short while ago, I said:

No one denies that it is possible to generate hydrocarbons without the presence of Dinosaurs.

But of course, you skipped that because it doesn't fit your meme.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Like many, many others, you think organic chemistry needs organic material. Just because methane and other hydrocarbons are "organic" does not mean they come from pressure cooked dinosaurs.

You see how silly your notion that only Earth needs living organic material to make hydrocarbons, right?

I can only conclude that you don't read posts, you just add inane replies based on keywords.

Here, let's review. A short while ago, I said:

No one denies that it is possible to generate hydrocarbons without the presence of Dinosaurs.

But of course, you skipped that because it doesn't fit your meme.

Google methane, it's a "Fossil fuel"

I cannot find a single experiment that take organic material, subjects them to heat and pressure and produces complex hydrocarbons. Yet, the Soviets took water, marble and rust put it under heat and pressure and got complex hydrocarbons.

 

[JiggsCasey]

I cannot find a single experiment that take organic material, subjects them to heat and pressure and produces complex hydrocarbons. Yet, the Soviets took water, marble and rust put it under heat and pressure and got complex hydrocarbons.

"Dinosaurs?" Try millions of years of decomposing plant matter, straw man champion.

Nevermind the irony that cons like you cling to Cold War commie science like this to fool yourself into thinking oil comes from God, it would be impossible to debate this issue with you, because it's clear you don't read. You're a charlatan of the most laughable magnitude. I'm fairly convinced you don't even understand the drivel you cut and paste. All you think you know is that traces of methane have been found in space, so that must mean conventional light crude oil must come from the mantle of the Earth. Makes sense. ... Afterall, alcohol has been found in space clouds, so it must be raining new kegs of Duff Beer any day now.

Even if we placate you, faux scientist, and accept your premise (accepted by virtually no body in the scientific community, mind you), it does nothing for your overall argument.

Because all that matters is: Where is it? Big Oil sure would like to know, because they're bankrupting themselves trying to get at what little new finds are left. So, where is the "space" oil, o' great communist sympathizer? In what amount? Please show the forum where this vast amount of Titan-like methane-based sweet crude pools of oil is, so that the global economy can stop panicking and get back on track. I mean, if it's magically produced via an abiotic process, then surely there are massive pools of the stuff you can allude to.

Countdown to obligatory "we just haven't explored enough!!!" goofiness in 10... 9... 8...

Wind bag...

 

[WillowTree]

OK, now that those two hijacks - one ignorant, the other irrelevant - have come and gone with a whimper, perhaps a serious response please?

Thanks so much.

Again, why couldn't this question be asked of a potential candidate? Especially considering Bernanke just went on national TV a few weeks ago and admitted that expected GDP growth has slowed to a crawl with no end it sight.

Because as soon as we get your demonRats azzes booted outta Dc. never to return we are gonna get this country on the road to prosperity again. We've done it before and we'll do it again. You want to settle for less? go sit on da porch.

 

[WillowTree]

And the Earth won't escape a solar nova.

So what?

So what? So the economic hypothesis of permanent economic growth (permanent increases in production) is patently false. It's a fine assumption for a first-year macro class that never looks beyond it's own nose, but it's not an assumption upon which to build economic theory.

You evil sense speaker!!!!

How dare you fly in the face of faith-based economic rationale!!!!

Everyone knows if you just pray hard enough, and pour enough money at dry holes in the ground, God will obviously put more oil in the ground. Nevermind the data.

wtf kind of sentence is that? doyathink?

 

[JiggsCasey]

Because as soon as we get your demonRats azzes booted outta Dc. never to return we are gonna get this country on the road to prosperity again. We've done it before and we'll do it again. You want to settle for less? go sit on da porch.

I'm no democrat, you bloviating clown. Regardless, I do recognize it's the deregulatory, privatize-everything Pubs who've sunk this country into ruin, even though the compromised Dems have found no solutions, and prefer the gravy train too.

But then, morons like yourself prefer a world of lords and serfs. To your own eventual demise.