Deans Job program

[Annie]

I have a friend with similar experience to you. He felt that way too, regarding their loss. He owned his own business for awhile, doing well, but after marriage and kids, the cost of insurance too high and no hedge if 'something' should happen, ie. economic downturn, .com bust, etc.

He went to work for Siemens, management in IT. Was doing really well, but knew he could go higher with degree. Didn't have time though. Siemens closed his division, became an officer of an association, again really good position, but knew he could do better with that piece of paper.

Now at 47 he's 'up there' at ServiceMaster, but working on BA from IIT, plans on MBA from NorthWestern afterwards. Both his kids are in college, he says when they are finished he's going to go back to working for himself, knowing he will have degrees to fall back on if something happens.

 

[DKSuddeth]

Thats what I'm talking about. A degree or a certification, to me, doesn't mean anything other than you were able to regurgitate on demand the answers to questions on a piece of paper.

Why it means so much to employers is almost beyond me. I can't tell you the number of jobs I've been turned down for because of certifications or a degree. I've had companies hire 21 year olds fresh out of MCSE bootcamps with ZERO hands on experience instead of me with my 15 years of IT experience.

But such is life.

 

[Moi]

Originally posted by DKSuddeth
Thats what I'm talking about. A degree or a certification, to me, doesn't mean anything other than you were able to regurgitate on demand the answers to questions on a piece of paper.

Why it means so much to employers is almost beyond me. I can't tell you the number of jobs I've been turned down for because of certifications or a degree. I've had companies hire 21 year olds fresh out of MCSE bootcamps with ZERO hands on experience instead of me with my 15 years of IT experience.

But such is life.

I think it's sad that you've been denied jobs just because you don't have a degree. However, a university degree is much more than just proof of regurgitation. As an employer, I look for a well rounded individual- one with, preferably, both educational and work credits on their resume.

What I have found in people with the degree is that they have an easier time understanding order and following the dictates of corporate culture. Once they've been through a good school program (notice I said a good one, not just one where they skated by), they've learned how to learn. They don't need the same amount of time to "get it" as others.

However, those with experience (but no degree) tend to have a better time assimilating to the actual tasks at hand. They also tend to have more creative solutions to problems because they haven't been spoon fed the answers. Of course I'm speaking of positions where the degree is not necessary to be licensed.

But both types of people are necessary it just depends on the job I am filling. When hiring, it is important to understand the individual at hand and when you get over 1,000 resumes for a position, sometimes you just have to weed them out...I'm sure this isn't news to anyone. The same thing has happened for decades.

The usefulness of a degree has been known for decades as well. People need to think of the ramifications of not pursuing one. And this reassessment needs to be made throughout the career as well. I know many people who've progressed at companies by getting a degree; and many, many people receive tuition reimbursement from their companies.

 

[5stringJeff]

Originally posted by r3volut!on
how about Wal-Mart? That's a vastly profitable company, and the majority of their employees are paid very little more than the minimum wage. Home Depot is another example.

OK, granted. But again, myabe Walmart thinks that its profits could be spent by expanding into another market, or upgrading their supply systems, or remodeling. If the workers at Walmart want to work somewhere else where they think they have a better chance at promotions or raises, by all means, they should seek alternate employment. If you don't think Walmart treats its employees fairly, by all means, don't shop there. But you see, these are all free-market forces at work. Forcing the companies to pay a wage that is artificially high (i.e. Dean's proposed $7/hr minimum wage) circumvents those forces and causes jobs to be lost.

 

[r3volut!on]

Forcing the companies to pay a wage that is artificially high (i.e. Dean's proposed $7/hr minimum wage) circumvents those forces and causes jobs to be lost.

Possibly...but I think that's merely speculation and there isn't any way to substantiate it.

I don't see any reason why jobs would be lost. The executives at wal-mart could afford to be paid a little less each year in order to cover the cost of an increased minimum wage. I don't know how anyone could possibly disagree with that.

And if those rank and file employees are paid more, they may actually be able to afford health insurance, which can easily mean that they will miss less work due to health reasons or sickness, which in turn strengthens wal-mart's workforce and productivity. That means more profits in the end.

 

[5stringJeff]

Originally posted by r3volut!on
Possibly...but I think that's merely speculation and there isn't any way to substantiate it.

Here's a few links to peruse that prove that increased minimum wages do, in fact, decrease the number of jobs availabe at that wage.

http://www.chass.utoronto.ca/cepa/wagesjobs.html

http://www.house.gov/jec/cost-gov/regs/minimum/illusion.htm

http://www.theadvocates.org/good/a0165.html - this is an opinion column, but references a U. of Michigan study.

http://www.virginiainstitute.org/pdf/cox_min_wage.pdf

There are hundreds of other such sties available with a quick Google search.

I don't see any reason why jobs would be lost. The executives at wal-mart could afford to be paid a little less each year in order to cover the cost of an increased minimum wage. I don't know how anyone could possibly disagree with that.

The old the-rich-don't-deserve-it argument... I've got news for you. It takes a lot of work to run a company, especially a huge one like Walmart. If the company thinks that an executive's time is worth $2 million a year, so what? And with a company the size of Walmart, let's say that executive took a 90% pay cut, and they distributed the $1,800,000 to its 100,000 workers. A grand total of $18 apiece. Do you really think that it's worth it to potentially lose your executives over such a paltry yearly total?

And if those rank and file employees are paid more, they may actually be able to afford health insurance, which can easily mean that they will miss less work due to health reasons or sickness, which in turn strengthens wal-mart's workforce and productivity. That means more profits in the end.

I agree, there are definitely benefits to paying your employees a good wage. Again, however, the company has to figure out what would be more profitable: improving employee standards-of-living (health care, etc.) or something else.

 

[Annie]

I bet they do mind paying more to minimum wage. Actually many companies are going overseas to avoid. You're wrong, it's been documented that many DO MIND and CAN'T AFFORD minimum wage. You know all those little mom and pop fast food stands? They don't make that kind of money. Most business in the US is small, the owners do not make over 75k themselves, so can't pay you over 20k per year.

As I said before, these types of jobs are for students, housewives, retirees, and those inbetween jobs. Some are better than others-usually big name places.

Really, communism in whatever form has always failed. Redistribution of wealth has never worked, so get what you need and build from there.

 

[DKSuddeth]

boycott it, all of it. Its guaranteed to drop in price, and so will medical bills, if people stop making it a priority and deal with illnesses in a more common sense style.

 

[r3volut!on]

DK - brilliant.

 

[Annie]

Well DK, I'm responding to emails on responses and feel I'm chasing you all over the board. Nonetheless, if your point is to boycott Walmart or others, be my guest. I have no reason to. As I said, I think minimum wage is a bad economic move, though even as an adult I worked close to it, (the company couldn't bring themselves to pay multi-degree person minimum wage, wonder if THAT would happen at Walmart, but I'll never know, I'd never work there.) When I did work for close to minimum wage, it was because the employer offered me something I wanted, ie. insurance, and I provided them with an on-time, polite, hardworking person.

 

[DKSuddeth]

I boycott walmart as well, but I was referring to health insurance period. If health insurance companies can't make money because people aren't paying premiums then pretty soon those premiums will go down, so will medical costs because the doctors won't be making money.

 

[Annie]

You may be right on boycotting insurance, but I'm not going first.

 

[DKSuddeth]

I wouldn't blame you and its not my choice, I simply can't afford it so I don't have it. guess that makes me a boycotter by necessity.

 

[acludem]

As someone who spent the last five years working in a grocery store, I was there for five years and made the top pay for a full-time non management employee $11.20/hour, I can tell you that retail companies could afford to pay $7.00/hour if they wanted to. The reason minimum wage sometimes decreases jobs is because companies move jobs overseas. The solution to that is to slap a huge import tax on companies who move jobs overseas. This would eliminate the profitability of such moves. The IT industry is shipping thousands of good jobs overseas every year because they can pay people way less, and don't tell me Microsoft can't afford to pay a decent wage.

Wal-Mart is the worst example of corporate abuse in this country. Wal-Mart moves into a new market, artificially lowers prices to drive competitors out of business, and then pays workers next to nothing and provides lousy benefits. I worked for a subsidiary of Kroger Corporation. Our benefits were quite good. Insurance was affordable. Wal-Mart also costs jobs in the production sector by demanding a certain price from a producer. The only way the producer can meat Wal-Mart's demands is to move jobs overseas to cut labor costs. Wal-Mart's business practices have cost thousands upon thousands of good, high-paying, manufacturing jobs. I boycott Wal-Mart as well, and encourage others to follow suit. Kathianne if you are concerned about Mom and Pop, Wal-Mart is their worst enemy.

 

[Annie]

Kathianne if you are concerned about Mom and Pop, Wal-Mart is their worst enemy.

by acludem

I know you are correct on the above. I have mixed feelings as I think the market place is the best way to determine who survives and who doesn't. Cruel on the face of it, but better for all in the long run. (Spoken like a true believer in Adam Smith).

DK might be surprised to know that I think that health insurance may have been the worst thing for the American public, but I am unsure how to get rid of it now. It provided money for much of the research of the 50's and 60's which is why we have so many 'miracles'. Yet, it caused health care costs to skyrocket, way beyond inflation.

The reason minimum wage sometimes decreases jobs is because companies move jobs overseas. The solution to that is to slap a huge import tax on companies who move jobs overseas. This would eliminate the profitability of such moves.

Not so sure this would work, the slapping tax part I mean. I think the companies would just incorporate overseas, in much the same way that so many US companies now incorporate in DE or NJ because of their lax standards.

Seems much more logical for those that want more than minimum wages to do what is necessary to acquire the skills needed to compete for better paying jobs. You said you worked at Kroeger's, I worked at Jewel which is now owned, or was the last time I checked by Albertson's. Same deal, not a whole lot of money but great benefits. One chooses what works for the time. I used the Jewel part-time for health insurance, when my full time job, paying over 4 times as much per hour, did not provide insurance. When I obtained a full-time teaching position with insurance, I stopped the part-time position.

 

[no1tovote4]

Anybody remember when we thought Howard Dean was going to win the Nomination from the DNC?

Resurrecting another old thread.