Dead Sea Scrolls Exhibition in NYC

[westwall]

Once agin this MISINFORMATION is advanced as truth.

there is no such thing as a palestinian. that's a name the brits made up for the mandate

The ROMANS called it Palestine, kiddo.

They did that about the same time they named England and Wales Britannia, FYI

"palestine" was never arab and the people now calling themselves "palestinians" are transjordanians who jordan wants no part of.

before 135 A.D., the Romans used the terms Judea and Galilee to refer to the Land of Israel. When Titus destroyed Jerusalem in 70 A.D., the Roman government struck a coin with the phrase “Judea Capta,” meaning Judea has been captured. The term Palestine was never used in the early Roman designations.

It was not until the Romans crushed the second Jewish revolt against Rome in 135 A.D. under Bar Kochba that Emperor Hadrian applied the term Palestine to the Land of Israel. Hadrian, like many dictators since his time realized the propaganda power of terms and symbols. He replaced the shrines of the Jewish Temple and the Sepulchre of Christ in Jerusalem with temples to pagan deities. He changed the name of Jerusalem to Aelia Capitalina, and changed the name of Israel and Judea to Palestine. Hadrian’s selection of Palestine was purposeful, not accidental. He took the name of the ancient enemies of Israel, the Philistines, Latinized it to Palestine, and applied it to the Land of Israel. He hoped to erase the name Israel from all memory. Thus, the term Palestine as applied to the Land of Israel was invented by the inveterate enemy of the Bible and the Jewish people, Emperor Hadrian.

It is interesting to note that the original Philistines were not Middle Eastern at all. They were European peoples from the Adriatic sea next to Greece. It may have pleased Hadrian to utilize this Hellenistic term for the Jewish land. In any case, the original “Palestinians” had nothing to do, whatsoever, with any Arabs.

Palestine vs. Israel as the Name of the Holy Land

Yep, the history is there for people to read, if only they would!

 

[westwall]

Once agin this MISINFORMATION is advanced as truth.






Jill notes that:


Never suggested they did, Jill.

I am merely trying to end THAT pernicious UNTRUTH that is so often advanced often in this place about the name Palestine.

The PHILESTINES were the folks living on the COAST of what is now Isreal and LEBANON. The Israelis were really not coastal people. The earliest Jews not really sea traders, and not really into the Mediterannian focused life at all.

They were originally nomadic sheepherders, after all, which is one the reasons that Jerusalem is NOT on the coast but INLAND from the coast..



Palestine vs. Israel as the Name of the Holy Land

Yes, just as your quote suggests, the Philistines were a HELLENIC culture. As to their genome? That is hardly relevant to this debate

And the Hellenic culture and the Jewish culture had a long history of antipathy with each other since they were both ended up competing for the area that we now call Israel.

I don't know why people want to rewrite this well known history.

And I certainly don't know why people refuse to beleive it when it is posted time after time, either.

It isn't like there a serious historically debate about this issue.

What that place used to be called, doesn't make tinker's damn worth of difference in the moden debate.

The solution to today's problem is going to take people looking to the future, not looking to the past.

Yes it does. You made a claim and Jillian bitch slapped you with historical fact that not only provided the origin of the name but the POLITICAL REASON for it.

 

[P F Tinmore]

All well and good, however, the state of Palestine was created and its borders were defined by the League on Nations in 1922.

Only the Palestinians can change the name or borders.

 

[P F Tinmore]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4yOoijlX6s&feature=related]A Palestian talks about the Nakba -3/4 - YouTube[/ame]
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jp-_ydl_28&feature=related]A Palestian talks about the Nakba -4/4 - YouTube[/ame]

 

[docmauser1]

All well and good, however, the state of Palestine was created and its borders were defined by the League on Nations in 1922. Only the Palestinians can change the name or borders.

Cool, so who was that palistanian sheikh, emir, sultan, shakh, president, prime-minister of that "palestine"?

 

[Ropey]

Today I was at the Dead Sea Scrolls Exhibition in Times Square, New York. There were LOTS of coins, pottery and seals from the periods of Kings David, Solomon and Hezekiah of ancient ISRAEL, as well as the Hasmonean kings. A lot of names stamped on the seals matched those of office-holders mentioned in the Bible. In addition, there were actual stones from the Second Temple! And, of course, there were some of the actual Dead Sea scrolls that were found in caves. There was NOTHING from the fictional country of Palestine on view.

Is King DAVID mentioned on any coins or documents?

Why is there a pottery lamp with CROSSes emblazed on the handle?

Zwoje (The Scrolls) 1 (38), 2004

Silver coin (shakel) with Kinnor of David.
A Simon Bar Kochba's coin For the Freedom of Jerusalem, ca. 132-135 C.E.

Zwoje (The Scrolls) 1 (38), 2004

 

[pgm]

pals are jordanians. on a totally other subject... how was the exhibit?

I fail to see how Palestinians are a fictional people, but Jordanians are totally real. But I don't want to go into that.

Anyway, I'm jealous of those that saw that exhibit. It's something I'd love to see. A long time ago, "Biblical scholars" decided that the Gospel according to John was definitely written by a gentile. Then, the Dead Sea Scrolls were discovered and that interpretation was completely thrown out. It seems the imagery and way of thinking was strongly linked to the community of Jews that wrote the scrolls. Some have argued that it was the most Jewish of the Gospels (but I think Matthew still holds that honor).

 

[ForeverYoung436]

pals are jordanians. on a totally other subject... how was the exhibit?

I fail to see how Palestinians are a fictional people, but Jordanians are totally real. But I don't want to go into that.

Anyway, I'm jealous of those that saw that exhibit. It's something I'd love to see. A long time ago, "Biblical scholars" decided that the Gospel according to John was definitely written by a gentile. Then, the Dead Sea Scrolls were discovered and that interpretation was completely thrown out. It seems the imagery and way of thinking was strongly linked to the community of Jews that wrote the scrolls. Some have argued that it was the most Jewish of the Gospels (but I think Matthew still holds that honor).

I don't know where you live pgm, but you can still see the exhibit on Times Square. In fact, it just opened this week and will be running until April.

 

[Jroc]

pals are jordanians. on a totally other subject... how was the exhibit?

I fail to see how Palestinians are a fictional people, but Jordanians are totally real. But I don't want to go into that.

Anyway, I'm jealous of those that saw that exhibit. It's something I'd love to see. A long time ago, "Biblical scholars" decided that the Gospel according to John was definitely written by a gentile. Then, the Dead Sea Scrolls were discovered and that interpretation was completely thrown out. It seems the imagery and way of thinking was strongly linked to the community of Jews that wrote the scrolls. Some have argued that it was the most Jewish of the Gospels (but I think Matthew still holds that honor).

I agree ...

Balfour Declaration

The French Mandate included the northern part of what is today the territory of Lebanon and Syria. The British Mandate included the southern and eastern part of the Ottoman Empire.

It is important to keep in mind that the Ottoman Empire controlled the Middle East from the 16th to the early 20th century ― for some 400 years. During this time, the countries of Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, etc. did not exist. The residents in these areas were predominately Arab subjects of the Ottoman Empire, living in loosely organized tribal communities.

History Crash Course #64: The British Mandate

 

[P F Tinmore]

pals are jordanians. on a totally other subject... how was the exhibit?

I fail to see how Palestinians are a fictional people, but Jordanians are totally real. But I don't want to go into that.

Anyway, I'm jealous of those that saw that exhibit. It's something I'd love to see. A long time ago, "Biblical scholars" decided that the Gospel according to John was definitely written by a gentile. Then, the Dead Sea Scrolls were discovered and that interpretation was completely thrown out. It seems the imagery and way of thinking was strongly linked to the community of Jews that wrote the scrolls. Some have argued that it was the most Jewish of the Gospels (but I think Matthew still holds that honor).

I agree ...

Balfour Declaration

The French Mandate included the northern part of what is today the territory of Lebanon and Syria. The British Mandate included the southern and eastern part of the Ottoman Empire.

It is important to keep in mind that the Ottoman Empire controlled the Middle East from the 16th to the early 20th century ― for some 400 years. During this time, the countries of Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, etc. did not exist. The residents in these areas were predominately Arab subjects of the Ottoman Empire, living in loosely organized tribal communities.

History Crash Course #64: The British Mandate

Many here are obsessed with names and governments. My focus has always been on the people. The Palestinians were not officially Palestinians until the new state of Palestine was carved out of the former Ottoman Empire just like all the other new states in the region. Different names-same people.

The population of the new state of Palestine consisted of Muslims, Christians, and Jews. Some had lived there forever and others immigrated over time. Just as those who immigrated to America to be a part of America are just as American as anyone else, those who immigrated to Palestine to be a part of Palestine are just as Palestinian as anyone else.

These are the people who have the right to live in their country without foreign intervention or occupation.

 

[AbeBird]

Today, however, there exist Palestinians with babies born on the land and proof that they have also lived on this land for a long time as well.

The future solution for the Arab - Jewish conflict in and on Palestine is "Two states", just cut Palestine in two; the big half should left for the Palestinian Arabs and the small half for the Palestinian Jews and the border between both in the Jordan River. The beginning of the political problem started when the British colonizer separate Palestine once in 1922 and then in the 181 UN 1947 separation resolution. Cutting the edge of land given to the Jews by the occupiers was immoral and not effective.
The Arabs in Palestine got their share in 1922 by the British to be ruled by an outsider Hashemite Saudi prince all over the trans-Jordan part of Palestine, for their global political calculations, neglecting to let the Jews to create their own state in the west bank of the Jordan (Until 1948 illegal Jordanian occupation the west bank concluded the all area between the river to the seashore. Arabs still dual-play this term when they mean in English to refer to the small WB as used by all and in Arabic they refer to the premier assent of it sense).
Now the only pattern to partially solve the conflict is to create those 2 separate states; Eastern Palestine for the Palestinian Arabs and Amman set as her capitol and Western Palestine for the Palestinian Jews, while they border the shorter border possible – the Jordan River.
The Arabs on both sides of the river will be Palestinian Jordan citizens and vote for their Parliament in Amman and the Palestinian Jews will be Israel’s citizens voting for the Knesset in Jerusalem. As long as the Arabs will deal with their terror activities Israel will be authorized to punish the terrorists and expel their families and allied helpers to their national home in Jordan.
Gaza strip will stay as she is: a Hamas proxy state, until its citizens will understand that they losing their rights, vision and chances for better life by their behave. They will be free to choose their future way and deal with the consequences.

 

[editec]

Yes, just as your quote suggests, the Philistines were a HELLENIC culture. As to their genome? That is hardly relevant to this debate

And the Hellenic culture and the Jewish culture had a long history of antipathy with each other since they were both ended up competing for the area that we now call Israel.

I don't know why people want to rewrite this well known history.

And I certainly don't know why people refuse to beleive it when it is posted time after time, either.

It isn't like there a serious historically debate about this issue.

What that place used to be called, doesn't make tinker's damn worth of difference in the moden debate.

The solution to today's problem is going to take people looking to the future, not looking to the past.

Yes it does. You made a claim and Jillian bitch slapped you with historical fact that not only provided the origin of the name but the POLITICAL REASON for it.

No lad you missed what really happened.

Jill's history provided that additional history that supported my original contention that ROME named that place Palestine in the 1st century, NOT ENGLAND IN THE 20th CENTURY.

 

[pgm]

I don't know where you live pgm, but you can still see the exhibit on Times Square. In fact, it just opened this week and will be running until April.

Ah, unfortunately, I just moved from the Midatlantic to South Florida. Maybe I'll go to New York when I go home to visit family.

 

[westwall]

Yes it does. You made a claim and Jillian bitch slapped you with historical fact that not only provided the origin of the name but the POLITICAL REASON for it.

No lad you missed what really happened.

Jill's history provided that additional history that supported my original contention that ROME named that place Palestine in the 1st century, NOT ENGLAND IN THE 20th CENTURY.

Ahhh, but you neglected its original name didn't you. We know that the Romans called it Galilee for hundreds of years before they renamed it in an effort to erase the Jewish State from the record books. Kind of how they erased Carthage from the map.

It would be like if I conquered Rhode Island and decided to rename it Soupville because I happened to like last nights episode of The Soup. If I killed every Rhode Islandian I suppose i could make the name stick. But, barring that, it is just as ilegitimate a name change as the Roman one, not to mention the English one.