Discussion in 'Education' started by Samson, Dec 22, 2009.
IVAN ILLICH, 1973
What's needed is not necessarily a de-schooling of society, but a separation of education and state.
Alliance for Separation of School and State Home
That is awsome Dude, thanks for the info
We have not been educating our children in the USA, but indoctrinating them. This has always been a huge concern of mine.
They would try to teach my son things about the "electric koolaid acid bus" in history class, like it was a great and groovy thing. Teacher reliving his past? sure he was
My son would come home and tell me these things, and I would go to the teacher and ask them what the hell relevence that has to my sons education. Needless to say, they hated me
This from the link provided by Dude
Do Parents Have Rights?
Most parents of public school students probably assume they have certain rights, even if those rights are not always honored. They may not realize that the courts have addressed this issue a number of times and have concluded that once parents deliver their children to the front door of a public school, the parents and the children both forfeit many rights they'd normally have.
Consider this excerpt from the Nov. 2, 2005 opinion of the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals (and note that it confirms the opinion of another court). The Ninth Circuit case was specifically addressing interviews conducted with children in a California school in which first, third, and fifth graders were asked explicit sexual questions as well as other disturbing and intrusive questions. The parents who sued lost their case.
Excerpt: Once parents make the choice as to which school their children will attend, ...their fundamental right to control the education of their children is, at the least, substantially diminished. The constitution does not vest parents with the authority to interfere with a public schools decision as to how it will provide information to its students or what information it will provide, in its classrooms or otherwise. See Yoder, 406 U.S. at 205. Perhaps the Sixth Circuit said it best when it explained,
While parents may have a fundamental right to decide whether to send their child to a public school, they do not have a fundamental right generally to direct how a public school teaches their child. Whether it is the school curriculum, the hours of the school day, school discipline, the timing and content of examinations, the individuals hired to teach at the school, the extracurricular activities offered at the school or, as here, a dress code, these issues of public education are generally committed to the control of state and local authorities.
I agree....but only after the kid is 14: Interestingly, the combination of education and state is a relatively modern concept
The question "Why have children educated" was only seriously asked until just after WWI. I think a World War increased the awareness of local, state, and national leaders to believe it was important for Americans to at least know where Europe was, how to read (and write) military orders, and how to aim artillary. But, more importantly, WWI revealed the weaknesses within American social fabric: We were not "melting together" in one pot, but more of a stew without any water (to extrapolate the analogy). In such a Heterogeneous society, the last thing that was needed was pre-WWI European class and ethnic distinctions. So, all states instituted compusory education as the "water" in the "American melting pot," a median that would allow for US all to get to know each other.
When I say "get to know each other," don't make the mistake of holding today's standards to those in post WWI America: Whites still didn't want to get to know blacks, Asians, or any other race that would, often quite happily, go to their own schools. Nor did Protestants want to know Catholics or Jews, who were usually already happily attending their own schools. The goal was to weaken the CULTURAL divisions between WASP's in the middle and lower economic classes (Upper class WASPS went to private schools).
But even middle class WASPS did not want their son's and daughters to MARRY into the lower classes. This, and for budgeting restraints, and because no one could imagine the monstrousity we have today, was why compulsory education ended at age 14.
I would say Illich has seen his prediction come true. We have deschooled (sic) society. Until we again have functional schools in central city districts we gain little benefit from public schools; the ill educated masses from the un-schools are fit only to have their vote bought by the highest bidder. Unfortunately the bidders are using MY money.
According to one report, the curriculum contains the following statement: "free market competition, an outdated nostrum."
This reply is one reason I like message boards: Someone posts a gold nugget
that I hadn't considered. Its not a perfect fit, but its damn close to reality: Bravo!
I could write a thesis, and get a Doctorate in Educational Administration around the comparison of Illich's hypothesis, and the Status Quo 35 years later.
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