Darin's Reflections On Spousal Friendship

[dmp]

Seriously dood. Nobody needs to 'stop' doing anything. If your marriage is all hunky-dorey and you're not best friends with your wife then good for you. Plenty of us are best friends with our spouses and are perfectly content as well.

I suspect that you are in the minority in your thinking on this subject. However, I wouldn't dream of telling you to 'stop' simply because your way of thinking doesn't work for me.

Seems to bother you - considering for an instant that perhaps your wife may not be your "Best Friend" sounds rough, doesn't it? I can assure you it's NOT a bad thing - despite what popular culture tries to tell us.

Your wife is your Closest friend - very likely.
Your wife knows you like none-other - I accept that.

But to have a 'Best Friend' is something different. Your wife is not your 'best friend' - she's your WIFE. Much stronger. Much Better. Read Nienna's last reply. She gets it.

 

[dmp]

Huh? Rephrase, por favor.

I'll try.

"My Spouse is my Best Friend!" BRIEFS WELL - but on closer thinking it may not be correct - OR a good idea. Perhaps it's more accurate to say "My spouse is my closest companion and junk".

I hate seeing 'friend' attached to a spouse because I value highly the importance of 'marriage' being SOOO MUCH MORE than a mere friendship. I don't combine, in body and spirit, with my friends - as much as Jeff offers. ( ). Spouses are friendly - well, GOOD spouses are - with all certanty. A (good) spouses posesses many attributes which a Best Friend would also possess. But a spouse has crossed over beyond 'friendship'. For a Marriage to be all it can be, the level of 'friends' must be over-come. I suppose this gets my fur up because for too often I hear phrases which can destroy a marriage: (wife to husband) "All you want is SEX!" or (well-meaning couselor to newly engaged) "..a marriage is Much more than physical love!" or "...As long as you and your spouse are Friends FIRST and foremost!"

I'll touch on those, if you like:

"All you want is sex!"
There are variations to that - such as "Well..every time I sit on your lap, and snuggle your face into my boobs, you push me for sex and I hate it!". But the root of it is, some women (and some men) put the word 'just' before the word 'sex'. That's doing a HUGE disservice to sex's importance in a marriage, all things considered. It's never 'just' sex. Sex is an amazing and powerful requirement to build the strongest bond and foundations for intimacy in a marriage. Ideally the spouse being 'convinced' to have sex should take it as a HUGE compliment. Frankly, when Mary pursues me (on those days where here vision is spotty, or she's not thinking right) for sex I am flattered beyond belief. I observe her actions and tones and feel honored that she'd want to combine her body with mine. I treasure those times - as they are for she and I exclusively. Some times are more 'moving' that others - naturally - yet I could NEVER begrudge my mate for desiring to have me inside her; for her expressing her desire to combine her DNA with mine. And I hope she feels the same. In a GOOD marriage there is the underlying current of 'acceptance and desire' for sexual intimacy.

"..a marriage is Much more than physical love!"
What seperates Roommates (even best-friends) from husband and wife (or lovers, I suppose) is physical love. A marriage has many more components than physical love (not just sex, but many types of physical closeness and intimacy) - naturally. Likewise a marriage is MUCH more than 'friendship' - even 'best-friendship'. Both physical intimacy and friendship and other dynamics are present - it's a case of Marriage being GREATER than the sum of it's parts, I suppose.

"...As long as you and your spouse are Friends FIRST and foremost!"
That's great advice if the end result is to have a roomie - with benefits.
I'd edit that line of advice to read something like "As long as you and your spouse can connect on a physical and spiritual and emotionally-intimate way, first and foremost"

 

[misterblu]

Seems to bother you - considering for an instant that perhaps your wife may not be your "Best Friend" sounds rough, doesn't it? I can assure you it's NOT a bad thing - despite what popular culture tries to tell us.

Your wife is your Closest friend - very likely.
Your wife knows you like none-other - I accept that.

But to have a 'Best Friend' is something different. Your wife is not your 'best friend' - she's your WIFE. Much stronger. Much Better. Read Nienna's last reply. She gets it.

My wife IS my best friend. She is also much, much, more. The two are not mutually exclusive. I'm extremely content with that. I can accept that your wife isn't both to you. Great.

If my wife wasn't my best friend, I wouldn't be married to her. So I suppose the thought of living under your personal marriage arrangement does bother me. Unlike you, my wife knows EVERYTHING about me. I confide everything with her. I don't have a better friend than her. You say that your best friend knows things about you that your wife doesn't. I find that unacceptable. However, if it works for you, great.

There is really nothing to 'get'. No need to be condescending about it. Nienna simply agrees with you. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[dmp]

My wife IS my best friend. She is also much, much, more. The two are not mutually exclusive. I'm extremely content with that. I can accept that your wife isn't both to you. Great.

If my wife wasn't my best friend, I wouldn't be married to her. So I suppose the thought of living under your personal marriage arrangement does bother me. Unlike you, my wife knows EVERYTHING about me. I confide everything with her. I don't have a better friend than her. You say that your best friend knows things about you that your wife doesn't. I find that unacceptable. However, if it works for you, great.

There is really nothing to 'get'. No need to be condescending about it. Nienna simply agrees with you. Nothing more, nothing less.

You are feeling I am condescending? I'm sorry you got that - when I wrote Nienna gets it - I mean "Nienna gets me"

Point of order - I didn't say my best friend knows things Mary doesn't - I said there are people who know things Mary does not. I'm glad you and the missus are the closest of friends. I stand on my claim that labelling her your 'best friend' takes away from what she's BETTER at being - your Wife.

Again, spouse > best friend.

 

[Annie]

And herein is where Darin and I had a ten-minute discussion about the terms "best friend," "close friend," and what not.

When Darin says "Best Friend," he means "neutral, trusted confidant." We both agreed that a spouse has all of those qualities which a close friend has: trust, common interests, and the enjoyment of being around each other. Darin's point is that someone has to have a "Best Friend" apart from one's spouse.

Darin, correct me if I'm wrong on this.

Hmmm, I hesitate to jump in this again...I do think either I'm very lucky in friends or men and women have different takes on 'best friends'. My best friend isn't neutral. When I said that I had to file for divorce, she said, "Good, it's at least 10 years past time, but better than never." I was like, "Why didn't you say that a long time ago?" She, "Would you have listened? Would we still be friends?" I was kind of pissed.

When we got together the other day and I was listening to how her kids and husband were really getting her nuts, I noticed a problem she was causing. After going over what I thought I was hearing, she agreed I had her take right, I told her what I thought she might be bringing to the party. She thought it over, called me and said she was going to try and fix her part. So far, so good.

We are very close friends, but neither of us have ever discussed our 'sex lives', before, during, or after marriage. There's lots of things I think are ok to speak about with a friend you know will not share, intimate details are not one. (This last paragraph harkens back to Joz's post, I do think women may well be more guilty of this than me. at least after high school)

 

[misterblu]

Reading over this again, it's obvious that the root of the misunderstanding is that you keep saying that your wife is not your best friend, she's more.

Great. In order to be MORE than a best friend implies that she's also your best friend. Best friend PLUS more. It means the same thing.

EDIT:

To clarify: What is the difference between these two statements?

1) My wife is MORE than my best friend.
2) My wife is my best friend and MORE.

I say they mean the same thing.

 

[misterblu]

You are feeling I am condescending? I'm sorry you got that - when I wrote Nienna gets it - I mean "Nienna gets me"

Point of order - I didn't say my best friend knows things Mary doesn't - I said there are people who know things Mary does not. I'm glad you and the missus are the closest of friends. I stand on my claim that labelling her your 'best friend' takes away from what she's BETTER at being - your Wife.

Again, spouse > best friend.

Ah... then say 'me'... unless you consider yourself an 'it'.

As to the rest... blah, blah, blah... as long as you're happy.

 

[Annie]

Best friends are almost never neutral. Sorry, we may try to be, but we aren't.

You can't be entirely neutral if you have a relationship with either of the parties involved. Last time I checked, a friendship is a type of relationship.

I have to agree with that, I don't think best friends are neutral, they are always on your side, to support you and what is healthy. It took me a long time to really get over the fact that she hadn't told me her feelings about my ex, but then again, my mom's reaction was the same. So was my dentist's and auto mechanic. :shocked: Seems everyone saw the problem, well I did too, just kept thinking I could 'fix' it...

On the other hand, her problem probably has more to do with our ages, kids leaving home, etc. Her husband is not perfect, but he's a great guy. She was feeling down and I reinforced her thinking, it could have led to problems. That is something I think she tried to avoid all those years ago, while I don't think she wanted to go where she was heading.

Oh dear, I think I may have just proofed Darin's point?

 

[The ClayTaurus]

I'll try.

"My Spouse is my Best Friend!" BRIEFS WELL - but on closer thinking it may not be correct - OR a good idea. Perhaps it's more accurate to say "My spouse is my closest companion and junk".

I hate seeing 'friend' attached to a spouse because I value highly the importance of 'marriage' being SOOO MUCH MORE than a mere friendship. I don't combine, in body and spirit, with my friends - as much as Jeff offers. ( ). Spouses are friendly - well, GOOD spouses are - with all certanty. A (good) spouses posesses many attributes which a Best Friend would also possess. But a spouse has crossed over beyond 'friendship'. For a Marriage to be all it can be, the level of 'friends' must be over-come. I suppose this gets my fur up because for too often I hear phrases which can destroy a marriage: (wife to husband) "All you want is SEX!" or (well-meaning couselor to newly engaged) "..a marriage is Much more than physical love!" or "...As long as you and your spouse are Friends FIRST and foremost!"

I'll touch on those, if you like:

"All you want is sex!"
There are variations to that - such as "Well..every time I sit on your lap, and snuggle your face into my boobs, you push me for sex and I hate it!". But the root of it is, some women (and some men) put the word 'just' before the word 'sex'. That's doing a HUGE disservice to sex's importance in a marriage, all things considered. It's never 'just' sex. Sex is an amazing and powerful requirement to build the strongest bond and foundations for intimacy in a marriage. Ideally the spouse being 'convinced' to have sex should take it as a HUGE compliment. Frankly, when Mary pursues me (on those days where here vision is spotty, or she's not thinking right) for sex I am flattered beyond belief. I observe her actions and tones and feel honored that she'd want to combine her body with mine. I treasure those times - as they are for she and I exclusively. Some times are more 'moving' that others - naturally - yet I could NEVER begrudge my mate for desiring to have me inside her; for her expressing her desire to combine her DNA with mine. And I hope she feels the same. In a GOOD marriage there is the underlying current of 'acceptance and desire' for sexual intimacy.

"..a marriage is Much more than physical love!"
What seperates Roommates (even best-friends) from husband and wife (or lovers, I suppose) is physical love. A marriage has many more components than physical love (not just sex, but many types of physical closeness and intimacy) - naturally. Likewise a marriage is MUCH more than 'friendship' - even 'best-friendship'. Both physical intimacy and friendship and other dynamics are present - it's a case of Marriage being GREATER than the sum of it's parts, I suppose.

"...As long as you and your spouse are Friends FIRST and foremost!"
That's great advice if the end result is to have a roomie - with benefits.
I'd edit that line of advice to read something like "As long as you and your spouse can connect on a physical and spiritual and emotionally-intimate way, first and foremost"

Which is all fine and dandy. That's not how it is nor has to be for everyone else, and it's not because we're too brainwashed or close-minded to consider that SO's are not your best friend.


It's not that we don't understand you, D. It's that we disagree. The square-regtangle analogy remains true. For you, it's more of a rectangle-parallelagram analogy. Both have four sides, but one is not the other plus more; they are separate with similarities. If that's what works for you, fine. But just because you've seen problems in your experience, that does not doom those of us who consider our spouse/SO our best friend to that fate.

Also, to be clear, just because your wife is your best friend and more does not negate having another friend/friends who you can confide in when necessary.

 

[The ClayTaurus]

To clarify: What is the difference between these two statements?

1) My wife is MORE than my best friend.
2) My wife is my best friend and MORE.

I say they mean the same thing.

If they do not mean the same thing, then that implies your best friend possesses qualities that your wife does not. Which might be true for some.

 

[GotZoom]

This has certainly been fun.

Best Friend, Closest Friend, etc...it is all how the individual wants to define that specific relationship.

For some people, the two are interchangeable; for others, they are not.

If your spouse is or can be both; more power to you.

For me, a best friend is someone I can tell ANYTHING to; regardless of how honest, bad, etc.

I don't know too many people who have this relationship with their spouse. People like to say they do, but when it comes right down to it, there are still things they won't tell their spouse out of concern that there might be worry or hurt feelings.

There are things about me that nobody knows. There are things that certain people (friend) know that my spouse doesn't. Just as there are things that my spouse knows that my parents, for example, don't.

Everybody needs/wants someone who they can tell anything to; their deepest secrets, wildest dreams and fantasies or anything else that is important to them.

But to have someone that you actually can tell those things to..I think it is a lot more rare than one realizes.

 

[dmp]

Reading over this again, it's obvious that the root of the misunderstanding is that you keep saying that your wife is not your best friend, she's more.

Great. In order to be MORE than a best friend implies that she's also your best friend. Best friend PLUS more. It means the same thing.

Oil and filter Change PLUS Chassis inspection, tranny fluid change, new wipers, and a wash and vacuum - that's mary.

Oil and filter change - that's a best friend.

"Vehicle Maint. Inspection" - That's an aqquantance.

 

[The ClayTaurus]

Oil and filter Change PLUS Chassis inspection, tranny fluid change, new wipers, and a wash and vacuum - that's mary.

Oil and filter change - that's a best friend.

"Vehicle Maint. Inspection" - That's an aqquantance.

But that means Mary satisfies your best friend requirements! She embodies all that your best friend does and more! She's your best friend and more...

 

[misterblu]

Oil and filter Change PLUS Chassis inspection, tranny fluid change, new wipers, and a wash and vacuum - that's mary.

Oil and filter change - that's a best friend.

"Vehicle Maint. Inspection" - That's an aqquantance.

Well now you're just being silly.

 

[Nienna]

My wife IS my best friend. She is also much, much, more. The two are not mutually exclusive. I'm extremely content with that. I can accept that your wife isn't both to you. Great.

If my wife wasn't my best friend, I wouldn't be married to her. So I suppose the thought of living under your personal marriage arrangement does bother me. Unlike you, my wife knows EVERYTHING about me. I confide everything with her. I don't have a better friend than her. You say that your best friend knows things about you that your wife doesn't. I find that unacceptable. However, if it works for you, great.

There is really nothing to 'get'. No need to be condescending about it. Nienna simply agrees with you. Nothing more, nothing less.

People have different experiences, different needs, and different desires. These things can make someone more sensitive to certain labels. I think everyone here is in agreement that one's spouse should be very close/intimate, if not THE closest, most intimate person in one's life. To some people, calling a spouse a "best friend" is no big deal. But to someone who has had certain types of negative experiences, it might be a touchy subject.

 

[Abbey Normal]

People have different experiences, different needs, and different desires. These things can make someone more sensitive to certain labels. I think everyone here is in agreement that one's spouse should be very close/intimate, if not THE closest, most intimate person in one's life. To some people, calling a spouse a "best friend" is no big deal. But to someone who has had certain types of negative experiences, it might be a touchy subject.

I'm sure that is true. It is probably good to be able to spot subjective truth based on one's negative experiences from general principles. But very hard to do, if not impossible.

And because even the people who love you will let you down, here are lyrics (if you look beyond the rap "grabbin nines" and such parts), about who really should be our "best friend".


Best Friend by Puff Daddy (with Mario Winans)

[Puffy] (Mario)
I've seen a lot of things in my life
Alot of ups and downs
Made alot of mistakes
No matter what, you've always been by my side
You've always been my best friend
You're the love of my life (Oh)
You're everything to me (Oh)
You never left my side (You're my best friend)
I love you so much (Yes, you are)
You're my best friend

[Puffy]
Since the beginning of time
All you did was bless men
Too young to understand but now you my best friend
How could they doubt you, never think about you
Don't they know nothing's possible without you

Faith without fear that's how they raised me
Words of man kill but never phase me
Grateful for wisdom that you gave me
But still I'm like, dear God I wonder, could you save me?
Too much sinning, gotta be more than plush living
Gotta be more than grabbing nines to buck tin in
Gotta be more than just to lust women
Gotta be more than platinum Rolexes, 600's and crushed linen
Praise your name, I know some of them hate their due
Judgment day, don't they know they can't escape your crew
I'm just trying to live right and pray you take me through
And with this song I dedicate to you, my Lord

1 - [Mario Winans]
Lord, you mean the world to me
Before I was born you chose me
You always hear me when I'm calling
Even catch me when I'm falling
You're the closest one to me
I surrender all to thee
I want the whole wide world to see
That we've always been and we'll always be
Best friends

[Puffy]
Sometimes I reminisce and wonder how I made it this far
Because of you, I'm me, so you the real star
Your hindsight, the time's right to get my mind tight
Then give it to you and let it shine bright
My best friend, only know how to teach the truth
Plant the seeds of life and let them eat the fruit
Can't you see that He spread love for you
Shed blood for you, cry for and die for you
Willies with mac millies know how you get down
We know the drama you bring whenever you hit town
Just remember when you pray, God is love
Gracious, merciful, forgive even the hardest thugs
Life as we know it, it all begins with Him
Life as we know it, it all ends with Him
If I was you I would never try to pretend with Him
He might spaz and blow it, I'm best friends with him

Repeat 1

[Puffy]
Been two and a half years since my man Big passed
Been two and a half years since my world crashed
I needed help, God gave me the power
Gave me the strength to go face to face with my darkest hour
Looked me in the eyes and ask "What you doing unhappy?"
"Don't you know why I'm here?" and started shooting at me
Back to the wall, is my faith gonna play out
Never wavered once, gave me no way out
Your time to die, don't even stress the date
You're coming with me, your soul I'm next to take
I told him "I'm too much blessed with faith"
"And living for Christ" and then he said "Manifest the great"
All of a sudden, what I'm remembering
Ground started to shake, everything trembling
The power of the truth was shooting through my Timberlands
Here was my Lord Jesus Christ, my best friend again, come on

Repeat 1 While:

[Puffy]
You mean everything to me
You've been with me from day one
Even when I thought nobody was there
You were there
You're my best friend
I love you like no other
There is no feeling like this in the world
If you can relate to what I'm feeling
Put your hands in the air for me
Let me see you
Naw, matter of fact clap your hands for me
Clap your hands, come on
Thank you Jesus
You always hear me when I'm calling
Always catch me when I fall, yeah
I surrender all to thee
I want the whole world to see
That you've always been, you'll always be
My best friend
I love you Jesus
Thank you, forgive me for my trespasses
As I forgive those who trespass against me
Thank you

 

[dmp]

But that means Mary satisfies your best friend requirements! She embodies all that your best friend does and more! She's your best friend and more...

she doesn't satisfy the best friend requirement - she satisfies another, more important requirement...unless she gets fat.




I keeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeed....I keeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

 

[Annie]

she doesn't satisfy the best friend requirement - she satisfies another, more important requirement...unless she gets fat.




I keeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeed....I keeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

Fat as defined by what? Would you really?

 

[dmp]

Fat as defined by what? Would you really?

I keeeeeeeeeeeeeeeed is a Triumph The Insult Comic Dog way of saying "I kid" or "I'm just joshing.."

 

[Annie]

I keeeeeeeeeeeeeeeed is a Triumph The Insult Comic Dog way of saying "I kid" or "I'm just joshing.."

:clap1: I glad you live up to my expectations! I know, sometimes I'm too literal, and sometimes too esoteric. I have a hard time with the middle.