Darfur?

[Gunny]

France financial interest in any African country can't be that huge. Trade with Africa is so small its hardly a reason to ignore genocide.

As far as I followed the situation the African Union AU has a force in Sudan and wants the "colonial powers" (France and the US) not there.

But the AU force is badly equipped and except the SA forces not really functioning. But the anti western sentiment keeps them continuing their effort alone.

Since France is busy in Kongo they are not gung ho to go in their alone either and upsetting the other African governments.

Thats why I blame South Africa for blocking more effective steps to limit the genocide there.

Your blame it on France routine is lame and shows me you are not well informed.

Is that a fact? YOUR making excuses for France is what is lame. Let me spell this out to you in r-e-a-l simple English ....

When Bush pushed for UN action in Darfur, FRANCE said it would veto ANY proposed military action by the UN.

Please fee free to tell me what part of that you don't get?

But you want to blame South Africa? GMAFB.

What you are showing me is you are more than willing to ignore the truth in favor of some Euro-bullshit.

And just for your edification .... since I've been to Africa a few times, France has its fingers in Sudan, Eritrea, Djabouti, Ethiopia, Chad and the Congo, that I know of. Just WHAT does it take, Mr Well-Informed? Pictures with the big, fat crayons?

 

[Annie]

The war is spreading:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/mai...an14.xml&sSheet=/news/2006/04/14/ixworld.html

Darfur chaos spreads as Sudan rebels invade Chad
By David Blair, Africa Correspondent
(Filed: 14/04/2006)

The war in Sudan's anarchic region of Darfur spread across a swathe of Africa and engulfed neighbouring Chad yesterday when rebels attacked its capital, N'Djamena.

Gunfire echoed across the city and mortar rounds exploded in the streets as heavily-armed insurgents launched their dawn raid.

Map

President Idriss Deby of Chad, holed up in his palace, ordered his tanks and helicopter gunships into action.

By early afternoon, when the fighting died down, he claimed in a broadcast that he was in "full control" of his capital. Mr Deby said the "rebel column" had been driven out and stability would soon return.

In fact, his position could scarcely be more precarious. Only last month he survived an attempted coup.

Now the rebels, who reached the centre of N'Djamena before being beaten back, have achieved a lightning advance across the vast desert country.

Their offensive began from bases inside Sudan's war-torn region of Darfur, which shares a frontier with Chad. Western diplomats and Mr Deby's regime accuse Sudan of arming these rebels and launching them against Chad.

The latest developments mark a sinister escalation of the conflict in Darfur, which has already claimed the lives of 300,000 people and turned two million into refugees.

In a matter of weeks the rebels have managed to leave Darfur and advance 600 miles across an arid landscape to reach N'Djamena and threaten Mr Deby.

As recently as Monday, the rebels, styling themselves the United Forces for Change, were reported to be 250 miles east of the capital.

By Wednesday they had managed another leap forward and were only 60 miles away. Yesterday they reached the heart of the city before Mr Deby drove them back.

Western diplomats believe Sudan is trying to oust Mr Deby in retaliation for his role in the Darfur war.

Khartoum has accused him of arming the rebels who began the fighting in Darfur three years ago.

Mr Deby comes from the black African Zaghawa tribe, also present in Darfur. The Zaghawas were among the tribes who rose up against Khartoum's control of Darfur.

Sudan believes Mr Deby sent arms to the main rebel group in Darfur, styling itself the Sudan Liberation Army.

Western diplomats have no doubt Sudan responded by arming Arab insurgents inside Chad and dispatching them to overthrow Mr Deby.

He is deeply unpopular in much of Chad, where Zaghawas make up only seven per cent of the population. The Arab tribes are his traditional opponents and they look to Khartoum's Arab-dominated regime for support.

This bitter rivalry between two neighbours stems from Darfur's crisis.

Mr Deby, who seized power in 1990, is a close ally of France, Chad's former colonial power. Some 1,200 French troops are deployed in his country and Paris reinforced them with another 150 soldiers yesterday.

According to the French foreign ministry, a Mirage fighter also fired "warning shots" at the rebels.

 

[NATO AIR]

Pres. Bush learned the wrong lesson from Clinton's Rwanda fiasco.

Instead of acting like he didn't care, Pres. Bush ACTS like he cares, but takes no real action to address the emergency/crisis/war.

This is just as bad, if not worse, for US prestige, hopes to end the crisis and any hopes the survivors may have had of living longer than the world's scant attention to their plight.

Indeed, I think Pretending to care is far worse than not caring at all. Hypocrites are a level beneath the uncaring, and that's where Pres. Bush, Condi Rice, and the leaders of Congress are in regards to this disaster.

These people are going to be wiped out, and no one will lift a finger to do anything, though Bush will claim to the end that help SHOULD be coming, if he could only figure out how.

What an utter bunch of bullshit. Absolutely French in its sinister guise.

 

[nosarcasm]

Is that a fact? YOUR making excuses for France is what is lame. Let me spell this out to you in r-e-a-l simple English ....

When Bush pushed for UN action in Darfur, FRANCE said it would veto ANY proposed military action by the UN.

Please fee free to tell me what part of that you don't get?

But you want to blame South Africa? GMAFB.

What you are showing me is you are more than willing to ignore the truth in favor of some Euro-bullshit.

And just for your edification .... since I've been to Africa a few times, France has its fingers in Sudan, Eritrea, Djabouti, Ethiopia, Chad and the Congo, that I know of. Just WHAT does it take, Mr Well-Informed? Pictures with the big, fat crayons?

Show me a legit source where France threatens a veto. I didnt find anything.
You have something show it . Otherwise silence.

And you pretentious smarter then you blahblah shows otherwise.

 

[Said1]

I think France wanted to "refer" the Sudan "situation" to the international court of justice. They also rejected purposed embargos, pertaining to oil against Sudan...so did China. Maybe not an actual 'Veto" per se, but close enough.

 

[Said1]

Try this link: http://www.google.com/search?source...:2006-03,RNWE:en&q=france+veto+military+sudan

you might find something interesting.

 

[nosarcasm]

well I checked it, there is no France veto to protect Sudan. To claim that
France accepts genocide to further their agenda are just over the top.

Its just anti France ranting so popular since the French opposition against the Iraq war.

 

[Gunny]

Show me a legit source where France threatens a veto. I didnt find anything.
You have something show it . Otherwise silence.

And you pretentious smarter then you blahblah shows otherwise.

Fuck off. How's THAT for "pretentious smarter than you blahblah?"

Your puposefully turning a blind eye to the truth in defense of Euro-pussies shows me NOTHING.

And it isn't my fault search engines have more moving parts than you can comprehend, but do your own homework. Here's a tip for you though .... it's hard to find what you don't want to see.

 

[Gunny]

well I checked it, there is no France veto to protect Sudan. To claim that
France accepts genocide to further their agenda are just over the top.

Its just anti France ranting so popular since the French opposition against the Iraq war.

Yeah ...okay. Just keep your head buried in the sand, dude. It keeps your best "face" forward.

 

[Shattered]

Fuck off. How's THAT for "pretentious smarter than you blahblah?"

Your puposefully turning a blind eye to the truth in defense of Euro-pussies shows me NOTHING.

And it isn't my fault search engines have more moving parts than you can comprehend, but do your own homework. Here's a tip for you though .... it's hard to find what you don't want to see.

:rotflmao: LMAO!!!

Alas....

<i>You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to GunnyL again.</i>

 

[nosarcasm]

Fuck off. How's THAT for "pretentious smarter than you blahblah?"

Your puposefully turning a blind eye to the truth in defense of Euro-pussies shows me NOTHING.

And it isn't my fault search engines have more moving parts than you can comprehend, but do your own homework. Here's a tip for you though .... it's hard to find what you don't want to see.

Just spouting personal insults does not change the fact you have nothing of substance.

 

[Gunny]

Just spouting personal insults does not change the fact you have nothing of substance.

I didn't start with the personal insults. I'm just dishing back that which you have chosen to give.

The substance isn't in question. Your unwillingness to look at it IS.

 

[nosarcasm]

I questioned the substance, nobody could come up with a link that shows
France vetoed a possible solution or intervention in Dafur.

I dont claim to have all the answers and put out the South Africa and the African Union introduction has further delayed any decisive action.

Somebody else mentioned Chad and the internal conflict there and French interests.

But I believe that the statement France is to blame is based on oppinion only not facts.

I followed the Dafur crisis for some time and I never got the news that anybody especilly pressured the UN to inaction. It seemed to me nobody desired to get involved in a conflict that would make them stand against Muslims and blacks bringing more claims of racism and neocolonialism from the enemies of the west.

 

[Gunny]

I questioned the substance, nobody could come up with a link that shows
France vetoed a possible solution or intervention in Dafur.

I dont claim to have all the answers and put out the South Africa and the African Union introduction has further delayed any decisive action.

Somebody else mentioned Chad and the internal conflict there and French interests.

But I believe that the statement France is to blame is based on oppinion only not facts.

I followed the Dafur crisis for some time and I never got the news that anybody especilly pressured the UN to inaction. It seemed to me nobody desired to get involved in a conflict that would make them stand against Muslims and blacks bringing more claims of racism and neocolonialism from the enemies of the west.

I did not say France vetoed anything. I said France threatened to veto any UN military action in Darfur if it was proposed. With that threat, they squashed any plans of a proposal.

I can't imagine that you missed it IF you followed it. However, I WILL agree to the lukewarm effort; which, is probably why any ideas in that regard dies as quickly as they came to be.

I certainly don't get your defending a Nation that opposes us at every turn simply because doing the right thing alwasy interferes with their exploitation of Third World countries. Whatever floats your boat.

 

[nosarcasm]

I never heard of France threatening a veto to stop (what kind of) action in the UN on Dafur.You still have not backed up that claim.

Can you show me some respected source? If you are right it will add to my disdain for France. They in the past have this double morale games going on. I still assume that they don't tolerate genocide to get ahead. You judge me wrong that I have the need to defend France or spin their misdeeds.


Why I raised the issue?
It seemed to me you use "the French are responsible" as a cop out why nobody else did anything.

I assume we agree that it is morally right thing to do to stop genocides whereever they happen. Making excuses for inaction by blaming it alone on the all powerfull French or UN seems inadequate to me.

And I would hope, that the French desire to be considered a world power, and stepping on the US toes whereever they can in diplomacy will not extend to supporting or covering up genocide.

I get a Runanda II feeling here. Everybody seems concerned but in the end its not worth risking manpower or money on saving those black tribes.

 

[manu1959]

I never heard of France threatening a veto to stop (what kind of) action in the UN on Dafur.You still have not backed up that claim.

Can you show me some respected source? If you are right it will add to my disdain for France. They in the past have this double morale games going on. I still assume that they don't tolerate genocide to get ahead. You judge me wrong that I have the need to defend France or spin their misdeeds.


Why I raised the issue?
It seemed to me you use "the French are responsible" as a cop out why nobody else did anything.

I assume we agree that it is morally right thing to do to stop genocides whereever they happen. Making excuses for inaction by blaming it alone on the all powerfull French or UN seems inadequate to me.

And I would hope, that the French desire to be considered a world power, and stepping on the US toes whereever they can in diplomacy will not extend to supporting or covering up genocide.

I get a Runanda II feeling here. Everybody seems concerned but in the end its not worth risking manpower or money on saving those black tribes.

http://www.un.org/documents/scres.htm

 

[Gunny]

I never heard of France threatening a veto to stop (what kind of) action in the UN on Dafur.You still have not backed up that claim.

Can you show me some respected source? If you are right it will add to my disdain for France. They in the past have this double morale games going on. I still assume that they don't tolerate genocide to get ahead. You judge me wrong that I have the need to defend France or spin their misdeeds.


Why I raised the issue?
It seemed to me you use "the French are responsible" as a cop out why nobody else did anything.

I assume we agree that it is morally right thing to do to stop genocides whereever they happen. Making excuses for inaction by blaming it alone on the all powerfull French or UN seems inadequate to me.

And I would hope, that the French desire to be considered a world power, and stepping on the US toes whereever they can in diplomacy will not extend to supporting or covering up genocide.

I get a Runanda II feeling here. Everybody seems concerned but in the end its not worth risking manpower or money on saving those black tribes.

I see. So you have assumed I would concoct a statement/accusation such as this in an attempt to justify ALL inaction in Darfur?

Erroneous assumption on your part. If the UN actually did act I'd have been shocked what with their track record of inaction after inaction. The specific reason doesn't matter to me, nor does it alleviate ANY-and-EVERYONE from the moral responsibility to do what is right.

I would support any non-UN-sanctioned, unilateral or coalition action to bring a halt to what is the shame of the so-called civilized world.

 

[dilloduck]

I see. So you have assumed I would concoct a statement/accusation such as this in an attempt to justify ALL inaction in Darfur?

Erroneous assumption on your part. If the UN actually did act I'd have been shocked what with their track record of inaction after inaction. The specific reason doesn't matter to me, nor does it alleviate ANY-and-EVERYONE from the moral responsibility to do what is right.

I would support any non-UN-sanctioned, unilateral or coalition action to bring a halt to what is the shame of the so-called civilized world.

Doing the right thing seems to be too risky for anyone. Pitiful.

 

[deaddude]

I see. So you have assumed I would concoct a statement/accusation such as this in an attempt to justify ALL inaction in Darfur?

Erroneous assumption on your part. If the UN actually did act I'd have been shocked what with their track record of inaction after inaction. The specific reason doesn't matter to me, nor does it alleviate ANY-and-EVERYONE from the moral responsibility to do what is right.

I would support any non-UN-sanctioned, unilateral or coalition action to bring a halt to what is the shame of the so-called civilized world.

And what if this non-UN-sanctioned action was instigated as Iran's first use of its new nukes?

Nice post by the the by, just thought i would slip in a joke.

 

[Darwins Friend]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to GunnyL again.

(good ol' Gunny)