DADT could be heading for veto

[Reidlr]

The defense spending bill that contains the highly contested repeal of Don't Ask Don't Tell could be headed for the veto pen!! The bill contains spending the pentagon does not want and the WH has threatened to veto if the bill contains spending for an aircraft engine.

Defense spending may trip up 'don't ask' repeal - latimes.com

Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell Meets the Military Industrial Complex The Speakers Lobby

Darn the luck!

 

[California Girl]

It is time we ended this dishonest practice of attaching hinky bills to other bills anyway. If they want to pass shit, put it out in the open and stop trying to hide it behind other stuff.

 

[Reidlr]

It is time we ended this dishonest practice of attaching hinky bills to other bills anyway. If they want to pass shit, put it out in the open and stop trying to hide it behind other stuff.

I completely agree. This is a practice that has been going on for far to long. Its not a biased argument either, both parties do this all the time!

At least in this instance of attaching bills onto bills, it will bite the supporters of the repeal of DADT in the ass! It will be interesting to see if Obama will actually go through with it and veto the bill, thus angering the GLBT community who he has sworn to support.

 

[California Girl]

It is time we ended this dishonest practice of attaching hinky bills to other bills anyway. If they want to pass shit, put it out in the open and stop trying to hide it behind other stuff.

I completely agree. This is a practice that has been going on for far to long. Its not a biased argument either, both parties do this all the time!

At least in this instance of attaching bills onto bills, it will bite the supporters of the repeal of DADT in the ass! It will be interesting to see if Obama will actually go through with it and veto the bill, thus angering the GLBT community who he has sworn to support.

Yep, both parties are equally guilty, as is the SOP for DC. There is no difference between them when it comes to dishonest, self serving practices.

If it was a less important issue, I'd find the whole thing damned entertaining to watch but DADT is a big issue for the military. And I'll always side with the Military over either party.

 

[Reidlr]

It is time we ended this dishonest practice of attaching hinky bills to other bills anyway. If they want to pass shit, put it out in the open and stop trying to hide it behind other stuff.

I completely agree. This is a practice that has been going on for far to long. Its not a biased argument either, both parties do this all the time!

At least in this instance of attaching bills onto bills, it will bite the supporters of the repeal of DADT in the ass! It will be interesting to see if Obama will actually go through with it and veto the bill, thus angering the GLBT community who he has sworn to support.

Yep, both parties are equally guilty, as is the SOP for DC. There is no difference between them when it comes to dishonest, self serving practices.

If it was a less important issue, I'd find the whole thing damned entertaining to watch but DADT is a big issue for the military. And I'll always side with the Military over either party.

It is a huge issue for the MILITARY, but unfortunatly those that are pushing the repeal are NOT military nor do they care for the military's opinion!

 

[California Girl]

I completely agree. This is a practice that has been going on for far to long. Its not a biased argument either, both parties do this all the time!

At least in this instance of attaching bills onto bills, it will bite the supporters of the repeal of DADT in the ass! It will be interesting to see if Obama will actually go through with it and veto the bill, thus angering the GLBT community who he has sworn to support.

Yep, both parties are equally guilty, as is the SOP for DC. There is no difference between them when it comes to dishonest, self serving practices.

If it was a less important issue, I'd find the whole thing damned entertaining to watch but DADT is a big issue for the military. And I'll always side with the Military over either party.

It is a huge issue for the MILITARY, but unfortunatly those that are pushing the repeal are NOT military nor do they care for the military's opinion!

I know.... I have lots of friends across the services (even a couple of gays!! ) and each one seems to say the same "hell NO!"

My brother has a couple of guys under his command that he knows are gay - they have no problem with it. They have a problem with "outsiders" telling them how to run the Military. It's not being done in the best interests of the military - it is all about political correctness... the Military is not a democracy.... and it is not a politically correct organization. Those who choose to serve in it know what they are getting into.

 

[geauxtohell]

It is a huge issue for the MILITARY, but unfortunatly those that are pushing the repeal are NOT military nor do they care for the military's opinion!

On matters of public policy, the military should remember that it works for the American people and the duly elected representatives they elect.

The military does not, and never has had, (have) the latitude to oppose national policy.

Since Obama is the CINC, I am curious as to why he can't simply end DADT without any legislative input. It would seem to be his prerogative to do so.

 

[geauxtohell]

I know.... I have lots of friends across the services (even a couple of gays!! ) and each one seems to say the same "hell NO!"

My brother has a couple of guys under his command that he knows are gay - they have no problem with it. They have a problem with "outsiders" telling them how to run the Military. It's not being done in the best interests of the military - it is all about political correctness... the Military is not a democracy.... and it is not a politically correct organization. Those who choose to serve in it know what they are getting into.

They need to get over it. "Outsiders" have run the military since our nation began. The military is not a democracy, but it should represent the people it serves (barring criminals, etc) and there is something fundamentally wrong with barring someone from service due to their sexual orientation and it's even more bizarre to allow someone to serve but force them to lie about their sexual orientation.

As for all the "not far to stick a homosexual in a shower with a bunch of straight guys", you can save your breath. Being a former grunt, I see those as absurd canards.

 

[California Girl]

I know.... I have lots of friends across the services (even a couple of gays!! ) and each one seems to say the same "hell NO!"

My brother has a couple of guys under his command that he knows are gay - they have no problem with it. They have a problem with "outsiders" telling them how to run the Military. It's not being done in the best interests of the military - it is all about political correctness... the Military is not a democracy.... and it is not a politically correct organization. Those who choose to serve in it know what they are getting into.

They need to get over it. "Outsiders" have run the military since our nation began. The military is not a democracy, but it should represent the people it serves (barring criminals, etc) and there is something fundamentally wrong with barring someone from service due to their sexual orientation and it's even more bizarre to allow someone to serve but force them to lie about their sexual orientation.

As for all the "not far to stick a homosexual in a shower with a bunch of straight guys", you can save your breath. Being a former grunt, I see those as absurd canards.

No one is 'barred' for their sexuality. It ain't broke, don't fix it. Let the military decide it and the rest of us should mind our own fucking business.

 

[geauxtohell]

No one is 'barred' for their sexuality. It ain't broke, don't fix it. Let the military decide it and the rest of us should mind our own fucking business.

Not now, and that was only after the conservatives and the military threw a fit over DADT. Now "DADT" is considered the gold standard that everyone is dying to adhere too. The bottom line is that certain people are going to oppose change no matter what it is. Though there isn't a 100% correlation, a lot of the same rhetoric was employed to keep the military segregated. That issue was hugely controversial and eventually Trumen just told the military to STFU and gave an executive order. Now no-one debates the legitimacy of desegregating the military.

So homosexuals aren't "barred" from service now. They are just forced to lie about who they are, all the while serving under a legal code that takes a dim view of dishonesty. Ironic, that.

And again, this matter is not up for the military to decide. The DOD works for the American people, not vice versa.

They'll take their orders from the civilian chain of command, salute the flag pole, and move out just as they have done since the beginning.

 

[Reidlr]

No one is 'barred' for their sexuality. It ain't broke, don't fix it. Let the military decide it and the rest of us should mind our own fucking business.

Not now, and that was only after the conservatives and the military threw a fit over DADT. Now "DADT" is considered the gold standard that everyone is dying to adhere too. The bottom line is that certain people are going to oppose change no matter what it is. Though there isn't a 100% correlation, a lot of the same rhetoric was employed to keep the military segregated. That issue was hugely controversial and eventually Trumen just told the military to STFU and gave an executive order. Now no-one debates the legitimacy of desegregating the military.

So homosexuals aren't "barred" from service now. They are just forced to lie about who they are, all the while serving under a legal code that takes a dim view of dishonesty. Ironic, that.

And again, this matter is not up for the military to decide. The DOD works for the American people, not vice versa.

They'll take their orders from the civilian chain of command, salute the flag pole, and move out just as they have done since the beginning.

I can partially agree with you, in that our military commanders will follow the orders sent from the SECDEF and the POTUS. You don't become a 3 or 4 star general without being a Yes Man. But I don't agree in that the military as a whole will just continue on with the new orders and everything will be great.

There will be problems, but none of individuals who support the repeal want to hear that! You just yell homophobe and say that all concerns voiced by those that appose the repeal are inconsequential. I have voiced my opinion on the matter on a different thread and don't feel the need to repost them.

 

[geauxtohell]

I can partially agree with you, in that our military commanders will follow the orders sent from the SECDEF and the POTUS. You don't become a 3 or 4 star general without being a Yes Man. But I don't agree in that the military as a whole will just continue on with the new orders and everything will be great.

There will be problems, but none of individuals who support the repeal want to hear that! You just yell homophobe and say that all concerns voiced by those that appose the repeal are inconsequential. I have voiced my opinion on the matter on a different thread and don't feel the need to repost them.

I think there will certainly be problems with repelling DADT. I don't have rose colored glasses. Simply disagreeing with homosexuality doesn't make someone a homophobe. However, anyone that beats or harasses a soldier is a homophobe and should be dealt with under the UCMJ. Eventually, the problems will be less and less until we will reach a time where we wondered why it was ever even an issue. That's how life works. We shouldn't avoid issues, because it might cause people to break the law. Rather, the guilty should be punished when the break the law. I can respect that many soldiers and marines disagree with homosexuality. In the end of the day, you don't have to love the guy you are on the ambush line with, you just have to believe that he will do his job as you will do yours.

Finally, our military follows the orders from the President because that is their legal obligation. Generals who get lippy with the President rightfully get their asses canned. See Douglas McArthur.

This goofy notion that the military should be able to take a vote on matters like this is just silly and has never been a reality.

Civilian control over the military. That's what you and I signed on for, and we knew it at the time. That means you serve at the pleasure (or mercy) of the President whether he wants to desegregate the military or go to war under false pretenses.

 

[California Girl]

No one is 'barred' for their sexuality. It ain't broke, don't fix it. Let the military decide it and the rest of us should mind our own fucking business.

Not now, and that was only after the conservatives and the military threw a fit over DADT. Now "DADT" is considered the gold standard that everyone is dying to adhere too. The bottom line is that certain people are going to oppose change no matter what it is. Though there isn't a 100% correlation, a lot of the same rhetoric was employed to keep the military segregated. That issue was hugely controversial and eventually Trumen just told the military to STFU and gave an executive order. Now no-one debates the legitimacy of desegregating the military.

So homosexuals aren't "barred" from service now. They are just forced to lie about who they are, all the while serving under a legal code that takes a dim view of dishonesty. Ironic, that.

And again, this matter is not up for the military to decide. The DOD works for the American people, not vice versa.

They'll take their orders from the civilian chain of command, salute the flag pole, and move out just as they have done since the beginning.

"Forced to lie"? They don't know about DADT before they join? If it's that traumatic for them to keep their private life private, then don't join.

They may serve the American people - BUT - they do so voluntarily. They choose to serve. And, not ALL Americans see DADT as a bad thing. The Military don't do political correctness - good for them.

 

[Flaylo]

Outsiders can give us missions, but they do not have the latitude to tell us how to carry it out nor to tell us how to conduct military business, they don't dictate military internal policy, because of our jobs we live a different way of life from civilians. We do more work in two hours than most civilians do in an entire eight hour work day. If they want to dictate something for us, let them dictate that we get paid more than they do or at least equal for doing the same jobs.

 

[bodecea]

I completely agree. This is a practice that has been going on for far to long. Its not a biased argument either, both parties do this all the time!

At least in this instance of attaching bills onto bills, it will bite the supporters of the repeal of DADT in the ass! It will be interesting to see if Obama will actually go through with it and veto the bill, thus angering the GLBT community who he has sworn to support.

Yep, both parties are equally guilty, as is the SOP for DC. There is no difference between them when it comes to dishonest, self serving practices.

If it was a less important issue, I'd find the whole thing damned entertaining to watch but DADT is a big issue for the military. And I'll always side with the Military over either party.

It is a huge issue for the MILITARY, but unfortunatly those that are pushing the repeal are NOT military nor do they care for the military's opinion!

I am retired military and I am pushing for the repeal of this ridiculous law.

 

[Woyzeck]

So the White House is attempting to quash some military spending, and DADT might be an unfortunate casualty if it does. It's interesting to say the least.

I'm all for DADT, at any rate. There's no good reason for it to remain in place. It would be a great shame if it didn't go through now.

 

[geauxtohell]

"Forced to lie"? They don't know about DADT before they join? If it's that traumatic for them to keep their private life private, then don't join.

Yes. They are forced to lie about their sexuality. It goes beyond keeping their "private life private" and you know it. If this where about "keeping your private life private" no married heterosexual soldier could ever bring his wife or a date to a dining in or formal event or wear a ring or talk about their spouse at work.

Since you are not the approval authority behind their enlistment, your opinion about them joining the military is just that. DADT allows them to join, it just forces them to lie about their sexual orientation.

They may serve the American people - BUT - they do so voluntarily. They choose to serve. And, not ALL Americans see DADT as a bad thing. The Military don't do political correctness - good for them.

That doesn't address my larger issue. If homosexuality were illegal in America, you would have a point. It is not. The military should represent the people it protects and barring someone from service based on who they sleep with is just absurd. We are the only civilized nation that still does it.

 

[geauxtohell]

Outsiders can give us missions, but they do not have the latitude to tell us how to carry it out nor to tell us how to conduct military business, they don't dictate military internal policy, because of our jobs we live a different way of life from civilians. We do more work in two hours than most civilians do in an entire eight hour work day. If they want to dictate something for us, let them dictate that we get paid more than they do or at least equal for doing the same jobs.

Sorry, but you are wrong. Their is a reason the President is Commander In Chief of the military. That means he's the boss. I would venture to guess that you made your privates at Boot Camp memorize the chain of command. I would venture to guess that included the SECDEF and the POTUS.

So ultimately, the President has the latitude to change this and it is well within his scope of duties. You don't have to like it, you just have to do it.

And you know it as well as I do.

 

[xsited1]

The defense spending bill that contains the highly contested repeal of Don't Ask Don't Tell could be headed for the veto pen!! The bill contains spending the pentagon does not want and the WH has threatened to veto if the bill contains spending for an aircraft engine.

Defense spending may trip up 'don't ask' repeal - latimes.com

Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell Meets the Military Industrial Complex The Speakers Lobby

Darn the luck!

Obama will never veto this.

 

[I am Chief]

Yep, both parties are equally guilty, as is the SOP for DC. There is no difference between them when it comes to dishonest, self serving practices.

If it was a less important issue, I'd find the whole thing damned entertaining to watch but DADT is a big issue for the military. And I'll always side with the Military over either party.

It is a huge issue for the MILITARY, but unfortunatly those that are pushing the repeal are NOT military nor do they care for the military's opinion!

I am retired military and I am pushing for the repeal of this ridiculous law.

Yea, so am I (retired military) butt that is as much as you and I have in common. Everyone I've talked to retired and active duty are going to insure this attempt at personal preference dies in committee. Yes we the people own the issue and we're going to make sure our normal troops know there back is secure. Those who are sponsoring this audacity of shame are soon to be looking for other jobs.