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dilloduck said:The Allies split up the "conquered territory" (some argue that it was promised to the Arabs for thier help against the Turks) and the United States has been footing the bill for decades. I don't think the Arabs really like the idea that the Jews got Palestine because no place else would take em. I can see why they are pissed but it's time they all got over it and we stopped funding anyone over there. It's a waste.
GunnyL said:IF the Arabs got over it, stopped waging a terrorist war and every-other-day threatening to wipe Israel off the map, I'd be be all for letting the situation be.
Since such is not the case, and Israel IS our ally by treaty, and IS a democracy in a hellhole of 7th century minds, I'll support supporting Israel until THAT situation changes.
HopeandGlory said:No, I don't have to admit it at all, because it isn't true. In 1967, Israel was simultaneously attacked by 3 separate national forces. It struck back in self-defence and seriously embaressed its attackers. Simple.
William Joyce said:"Simple," as in, simply taken from Dept. of Israeli Propaganda?
Look, I don't begrudge Jews, Arabs or anyone else from wanting a race-based state. Fact is, those states tend to work much better, internally. Look at Japan, Norway. Then look at BRAZIL. Sri Lanka. The Sudan. Which would you choose to live in?
I just don't like how Jews, among all peoples of the Earth, claim 1) that they are the ONLY people to deserve peace and land, 2) that they can destroy any other people at will and 3) that anyone else who wants peace and land is an "Arab terrorist" or a "neo-Nazi." It's bullshit. Meanwhile, I hate how my own white people won't even lift a finger to defend themselves. All our countries are being flooded with Arabs, Mexicans, etc., and we're afraid to even think about it. The Jews are much wiser than this, which is probably why they'll be here another 3,000 years.
Anyone who thinks the United States will be around 3,000 years from now is deluded.
dilloduck said:I keep hearing that Israel is our ally but I don't see any Israeli jets over Iran or Iraq. Exactly what ARE they doing for the billions we give them?
William Joyce said:"Simple," as in, simply taken from Dept. of Israeli Propaganda?[/]QUOTE]
You mean Israel wasn't attacked simultaneously by three different Arab nations in 1967? Okie dokie.
[QUOTELook, I don't begrudge Jews, Arabs or anyone else from wanting a race-based state. Fact is, those states tend to work much better, internally. Look at Japan, Norway. Then look at BRAZIL. Sri Lanka. The Sudan. Which would you choose to live in?
I just don't like how Jews, among all peoples of the Earth, claim 1) that they are the ONLY people to deserve peace and land, 2) that they can destroy any other people at will and 3) that anyone else who wants peace and land is an "Arab terrorist" or a "neo-Nazi." It's bullshit. Meanwhile, I hate how my own white people won't even lift a finger to defend themselves. All our countries are being flooded with Arabs, Mexicans, etc., and we're afraid to even think about it. The Jews are much wiser than this, which is probably why they'll be here another 3,000 years.
Anyone who thinks the United States will be around 3,000 years from now is deluded.
jillian said:William Joyce said:"Simple," as in, simply taken from Dept. of Israeli Propaganda?[/]QUOTE]
You mean Israel wasn't attacked simultaneously by three different Arab nations in 1967? Okie dokie.
Brazil, Sri Lanka and Sudan also aren't run under political systems that work. More a function of that than of race.
wow...kinda interesting...damn jews making the spanish have to become inquisitors to convert them...damn Jews making the Germans have to exterminate 6 million of them to cleanse Germany....
The Spanish Inquisition was not specifically aimed at, nor limited to Jews. It was ALL heretics, regardless race, creed or color.
And Hitler and his Third Reich practiced genocide against the Jews. The German people as a whole did not.
No way to know what will exist 3,000 years from now. Civilizations have raisen and fallen throughout history.
No reason to just plan our own demise through an unwillingness to face our enemies either.
GunnyL said:jillian said:No reason to just plan our own demise through an unwillingness to face our enemies either.
No, it's not!
And isn't that what Israel does?
It's an old story but if Israel hadn't put up with world condemnation back in 1981 when their planes bombed the Osirak Nuclear Reactors in Baghdad, the entire history of the region might be very different today!
And the question of whether it was the Nazi's or the Germans per se, who perpetrated the Holocaust, is a curious one. If you go to Germany today, they refer to the Nazi's as if they were an entirely separate race of beings who temporarily took over Germany for a while - nothing to do them whatsoever.
Not quite as simple, I'm afraid. The persecution of Jews was begun very publically as soon as the Nazi's gained political power and involved a precisely orchestrated propaganda campaign. Most Germans were aware of it and if not participatory, passively allowed it to happen.
Siemens, Bayer, Volkswagon, Mercedes, many of the prosperous and surviving German industrial bases, were happy to use 'work till you drop' slave labour. Bayer and some of the other pharmaceutical companies went a step further and utilised some of the results gained by doctors such as Mengele, which were gained by involuntary human experimentation.
From a logistics POV - vanishing people, cattle trains travelling across countries, the sheer number of Germans required to operate the 'Holocaust Industry' made it virtually impossible that ordinary Germans were unaware of what was going on. Open legislation banning Jews from parks, resorts, schools, universities, shops, hospitals, cinemas and other public places, was in-place and accepted in German and other occupied territories.
The orchestrated atrocities of Kristallnacht where Jewish shops, businesses, homes and synagogues across the whole of Germany were burned and vandalised, and many Jews were attacked and murdered, couldn't have been done more openly.
It's as the saying goes today - 'Not all Muslims are terrorists - but most terrorists are Muslim!'
Not all Germans were Nazis - but most Nazis were German!
HopeandGlory said:GunnyL said:No, it's not!
And isn't that what Israel does?
It's an old story but if Israel hadn't put up with world condemnation back in 1981 when their planes bombed the Osirak Nuclear Reactors in Baghdad, the entire history of the region might be very different today!
And the question of whether it was the Nazi's or the Germans per se, who perpetrated the Holocaust, is a curious one. If you go to Germany today, they refer to the Nazi's as if they were an entirely separate race of beings who temporarily took over Germany for a while - nothing to do them whatsoever.
Not quite as simple, I'm afraid. The persecution of Jews was begun very publically as soon as the Nazi's gained political power and involved a precisely orchestrated propaganda campaign. Most Germans were aware of it and if not participatory, passively allowed it to happen.
Let's draw the fine lines here now. I didn't say Germans as a whole did not persecute the Jews. As far as who knew what in regard to extermination camps, your opinion lacks evidence. That most Germans knew about them is an assumption on the part of the victors, and nothing more.
That is not to say they did NOT know. Only that the statement they DID know is not fact-based.
Siemens, Bayer, Volkswagon, Mercedes, many of the prosperous and surviving German industrial bases, were happy to use 'work till you drop' slave labour. Bayer and some of the other pharmaceutical companies went a step further and utilised some of the results gained by doctors such as Mengele, which were gained by involuntary human experimentation.
You mean just as WE gave Werner von Braun a pass if he worked on OUR rocket program?
From a logistics POV - vanishing people, cattle trains travelling across countries, the sheer number of Germans required to operate the 'Holocaust Industry' made it virtually impossible that ordinary Germans were unaware of what was going on. Open legislation banning Jews from parks, resorts, schools, universities, shops, hospitals, cinemas and other public places, was in-place and accepted in German and other occupied territories.
I disagree. Germany was a thought-and-act controlled society to the nth degree. Plenty could take place without the knowledge of the average layman. They had access only to information provided them by the Reich.
The orchestrated atrocities of Kristallnacht where Jewish shops, businesses, homes and synagogues across the whole of Germany were burned and vandalised, and many Jews were attacked and murdered, couldn't have been done more openly.
You're mixing apples-n-oranges. The vandalism and physical assaults by citizens predate the government's "Final Solution" carried out by the SS.
It's as the saying goes today - 'Not all Muslims are terrorists - but most terrorists are Muslim!'
Not all Germans were Nazis - but most Nazis were German!
The Germans were guilty of letting Hitler take power and riding his bandwagon. When it crashed and burned, they suffered the consequences.
I have the same problem with them I have with non-terrorist Muslims ... if you sit idly by and let it happen without denouncing it, you are, in our eyes, guilty of allowing it to happen.
But let's take that a step further .... what fate befell Germans who opposed Hitler?
What fate has befallen Muslims who have spoken out against the extremists/terrorists?
W'ere sitting over here relatively secure telling those in the line fo fire to verbally denounce people who are more than willing to murder them.
GunnyL said:HopeandGlory said:The Germans were guilty of letting Hitler take power and riding his bandwagon. When it crashed and burned, they suffered the consequences.
I have the same problem with them I have with non-terrorist Muslims ... if you sit idly by and let it happen without denouncing it, you are, in our eyes, guilty of allowing it to happen.
But let's take that a step further .... what fate befell Germans who opposed Hitler?
What fate has befallen Muslims who have spoken out against the extremists/terrorists?
W'ere sitting over here relatively secure telling those in the line fo fire to verbally denounce people who are more than willing to murder them.
Agreed--arm-chair analysis of what people should/ should have risked is easy. Even if they had the knowledge of wrongdoing, asking them to rebel without the means is false bravado.
dilloduck said:GunnyL said:Agreed--arm-chair analysis of what people should/ should have risked is easy. Even if they had the knowledge of wrongdoing, asking them to rebel without the means is false bravado.
Right. They need to get some big, f-ing guns, THEN rebel. :firing:
