D-Day Myth Feeds Trump's Militarism

[georgephillip]

Do you want to pretend Americans today know the Soviets losses totaled 27 million compared to America's 400,000? Maybe you're aware of a survey in France during May of 1945 asking who won the war in Europe? 57% said the Soviets. Today the number is less than 15%.

Answer the question kid.

I suspect a very large percentage of Americans today do NOT know that Canadians and British were targeting Gold, Juno, and Sword; why would they?
Normandy landings - Wikipedia

I'm using this to reply to all of your posts. You talk about myth..and you are busy trying to sell us on yours.
The obvious slant and anti-American propaganda is ridiculous..as well as your incorrect and revisionist view of the events of the last 70 years.
A few reminders..Stalin had FDR mesmerized. It was pitiful to watch. As FDR gushed about Papa Stalin..very reminiscent of Trump and Putin, BTW...the USSR was infiltrating thousands of spies into the US. When Donovan and Hoover tried to warn FDR..he discounted everything they had to say--so they mounted their own campaign to root out as many spies as they could. Once Truman took office, it was on---thus the Cold War.

Trying to equate Vietnam and Korea with the events of WWII is just plain pitiful--I'm amazed you would even try it--although it does reveal your anti-American agenda.

I wold point out the the 'butchering' in Vietnam went both ways..and while one can argue the rights and the wrongs..in the field it was war..and war is a shitty business..period.

You bring up the Spanish civil war? Really? You ask what America contributed to it? Well, Americans fought and died on both sides in that war...but what business of it was America's? Rightfully so, we stayed out of it..even though many civilians went to Spain..most all of them on the communist side. They lost..and they died. BTW..Stalin betrayed those people as well.

As I forensically study your posts it becomes clear that you are a fool..who has swallowed the Progression false narrative hook, line and sinker.

The US won the war in Europe?
The Soviets experienced one 911 per day every day for 24 years.
The equivalent of every American east of Chicago dying at Nazi hands.

"It was the Soviet army that broke Hitler's back at Stalingrad, but the myth that the American army liberated Europe, serves aggressive U.S. policy, including Trump targeting Iran...."

Why did the allies wait until 1944 to open a "Second Front" in Europe?

"You have to remember that in May of ’42, Roosevelt took the initiative to ask Stalin to send Molotov and a trusted general to Washington D.C.

"He met there with them.

"And during that meeting he turns to General Marshall, and he says, can the United States open up the second front before the end of 1942, open up the second front in Europe?

"And Marshall says yes.

"And then they issue a proclamation committing the United States to open up a second front."

Two years after the Soviets tore the guts out of Hitler's war machine.

D Day: Mythology of America as Liberator Feeds Trump’s Militarism

I see you forgot to mention that the russians worked WITH hitler at the start of the war, had a non-aggression pact, and managed to pick up some territory while the germans did the REAL work.....


If hitler hadn't invaded russia the russians would have been happy to let hitler continue his aggression while they (the russians) kept absorbing smaller countries.

They were NOT heroes.

And let us not forget that AFTER the war while the EVIL AMERICANS were busy spending money helping countries to rebuild and maintain their autonomy the russians KEPT all of the territory they stole, built walls to keep people in and slaughtered thousands.......

the russians were NOT "the good guys".....

Trying to equate Vietnam and Korea with the events of WWII is just plain pitiful--I'm amazed you would even try it--although it does reveal your anti-American agenda

My references to Vietnam and Korea were in response to a claim the Russians slaughtered thousands in the wake of WWII. Obviously, they did, but not on the opposite side of the planet from their homeland.

You may be uncomfortable with reality, but that doesn't change the number of innocent human beings who've been maimed, murdered, and displaced by the US military over the past 70 years.

I'm sure that whatever number you come up with would still pale in comparison to the 10's of millions of innocent people that Russia killed. Either through warfare..or neglect...or deliberate genocide.

You also seem, as those like you always do, to completely ignore the good that America has done through the years, the millions fed..freed from tyranny...given homes and medical care. To put in the context of WWII and its aftermath....let us consider the Berlin airlift..where we risked open warfare with the Soviets..to feed our former enemies. How about that?

You lack balance, accuracy and contextual awareness. You are presenting propaganda....and old and tired propaganda, at that...

BTW..to snip a piece of a post and present out of context so you can make a point is intellectually dishonest. Just sayin'...

You also seem, as those like you always do, to completely ignore the good that America has done through the years, the millions fed..freed from tyranny...given homes and medical care. To put in the context of WWII and its aftermath....let us consider the Berlin airlift..where we risked open warfare with the Soviets..to feed our former enemies. How about that?

Stalin was willing to allow German reunification in 1952:

Revolution of ’89

"Stalin’s 1952 proposal to unify Germany with free elections was flatly rejected because of his condition that a reunited Germany not join a U.S.-run military alliance, a sine qua non for any Soviet leadership.

"Had this and later initiatives been pursued, there might have been no Berlin wall and no Soviet invasions of East Berlin, Budapest and Prague."

 

[EvilEyeFleegle]

Answer the question kid.

I suspect a very large percentage of Americans today do NOT know that Canadians and British were targeting Gold, Juno, and Sword; why would they?
Normandy landings - Wikipedia

I'm using this to reply to all of your posts. You talk about myth..and you are busy trying to sell us on yours.
The obvious slant and anti-American propaganda is ridiculous..as well as your incorrect and revisionist view of the events of the last 70 years.
A few reminders..Stalin had FDR mesmerized. It was pitiful to watch. As FDR gushed about Papa Stalin..very reminiscent of Trump and Putin, BTW...the USSR was infiltrating thousands of spies into the US. When Donovan and Hoover tried to warn FDR..he discounted everything they had to say--so they mounted their own campaign to root out as many spies as they could. Once Truman took office, it was on---thus the Cold War.

Trying to equate Vietnam and Korea with the events of WWII is just plain pitiful--I'm amazed you would even try it--although it does reveal your anti-American agenda.

I wold point out the the 'butchering' in Vietnam went both ways..and while one can argue the rights and the wrongs..in the field it was war..and war is a shitty business..period.

You bring up the Spanish civil war? Really? You ask what America contributed to it? Well, Americans fought and died on both sides in that war...but what business of it was America's? Rightfully so, we stayed out of it..even though many civilians went to Spain..most all of them on the communist side. They lost..and they died. BTW..Stalin betrayed those people as well.

As I forensically study your posts it becomes clear that you are a fool..who has swallowed the Progression false narrative hook, line and sinker.

The US won the war in Europe?
The Soviets experienced one 911 per day every day for 24 years.
The equivalent of every American east of Chicago dying at Nazi hands.

"It was the Soviet army that broke Hitler's back at Stalingrad, but the myth that the American army liberated Europe, serves aggressive U.S. policy, including Trump targeting Iran...."

Why did the allies wait until 1944 to open a "Second Front" in Europe?

"You have to remember that in May of ’42, Roosevelt took the initiative to ask Stalin to send Molotov and a trusted general to Washington D.C.

"He met there with them.

"And during that meeting he turns to General Marshall, and he says, can the United States open up the second front before the end of 1942, open up the second front in Europe?

"And Marshall says yes.

"And then they issue a proclamation committing the United States to open up a second front."

Two years after the Soviets tore the guts out of Hitler's war machine.

D Day: Mythology of America as Liberator Feeds Trump’s Militarism

I see you forgot to mention that the russians worked WITH hitler at the start of the war, had a non-aggression pact, and managed to pick up some territory while the germans did the REAL work.....


If hitler hadn't invaded russia the russians would have been happy to let hitler continue his aggression while they (the russians) kept absorbing smaller countries.

They were NOT heroes.

And let us not forget that AFTER the war while the EVIL AMERICANS were busy spending money helping countries to rebuild and maintain their autonomy the russians KEPT all of the territory they stole, built walls to keep people in and slaughtered thousands.......

the russians were NOT "the good guys".....

Trying to equate Vietnam and Korea with the events of WWII is just plain pitiful--I'm amazed you would even try it--although it does reveal your anti-American agenda

My references to Vietnam and Korea were in response to a claim the Russians slaughtered thousands in the wake of WWII. Obviously, they did, but not on the opposite side of the planet from their homeland.

You may be uncomfortable with reality, but that doesn't change the number of innocent human beings who've been maimed, murdered, and displaced by the US military over the past 70 years.

I'm sure that whatever number you come up with would still pale in comparison to the 10's of millions of innocent people that Russia killed. Either through warfare..or neglect...or deliberate genocide.

You also seem, as those like you always do, to completely ignore the good that America has done through the years, the millions fed..freed from tyranny...given homes and medical care. To put in the context of WWII and its aftermath....let us consider the Berlin airlift..where we risked open warfare with the Soviets..to feed our former enemies. How about that?

You lack balance, accuracy and contextual awareness. You are presenting propaganda....and old and tired propaganda, at that...

BTW..to snip a piece of a post and present out of context so you can make a point is intellectually dishonest. Just sayin'...

You also seem, as those like you always do, to completely ignore the good that America has done through the years, the millions fed..freed from tyranny...given homes and medical care. To put in the context of WWII and its aftermath....let us consider the Berlin airlift..where we risked open warfare with the Soviets..to feed our former enemies. How about that?

Stalin was willing to allow German reunification in 1952:

Revolution of ’89

"Stalin’s 1952 proposal to unify Germany with free elections was flatly rejected because of his condition that a reunited Germany not join a U.S.-run military alliance, a sine qua non for any Soviet leadership.

"Had this and later initiatives been pursued, there might have been no Berlin wall and no Soviet invasions of East Berlin, Budapest and Prague."

As I said..completely ignore any good America did..and focus on a lie..USSR would never have allowed 'free' elections--it was a trick. Stalin and the Soviet leadership were committed to the destruction of the Capitalist West, it was core to their ideology. Yeah, they were willing to promise anything..to get rid of NATO.
I note that the USSR did not get out of East Germany..did not let up on East Berlin, and still had to pen its citizens up..lest they leave their 'workers paradise'.

Also..just to keep the record real..in 1952, the rest of Europe was not yet ready for German reunification..France in particular was dead set against it..and who can blame them?

 

[georgephillip]

I suspect a very large percentage of Americans today do NOT know that Canadians and British were targeting Gold, Juno, and Sword; why would they?
Normandy landings - Wikipedia

I'm using this to reply to all of your posts. You talk about myth..and you are busy trying to sell us on yours.
The obvious slant and anti-American propaganda is ridiculous..as well as your incorrect and revisionist view of the events of the last 70 years.
A few reminders..Stalin had FDR mesmerized. It was pitiful to watch. As FDR gushed about Papa Stalin..very reminiscent of Trump and Putin, BTW...the USSR was infiltrating thousands of spies into the US. When Donovan and Hoover tried to warn FDR..he discounted everything they had to say--so they mounted their own campaign to root out as many spies as they could. Once Truman took office, it was on---thus the Cold War.

Trying to equate Vietnam and Korea with the events of WWII is just plain pitiful--I'm amazed you would even try it--although it does reveal your anti-American agenda.

I wold point out the the 'butchering' in Vietnam went both ways..and while one can argue the rights and the wrongs..in the field it was war..and war is a shitty business..period.

You bring up the Spanish civil war? Really? You ask what America contributed to it? Well, Americans fought and died on both sides in that war...but what business of it was America's? Rightfully so, we stayed out of it..even though many civilians went to Spain..most all of them on the communist side. They lost..and they died. BTW..Stalin betrayed those people as well.

As I forensically study your posts it becomes clear that you are a fool..who has swallowed the Progression false narrative hook, line and sinker.

The US won the war in Europe?
The Soviets experienced one 911 per day every day for 24 years.
The equivalent of every American east of Chicago dying at Nazi hands.

"It was the Soviet army that broke Hitler's back at Stalingrad, but the myth that the American army liberated Europe, serves aggressive U.S. policy, including Trump targeting Iran...."

Why did the allies wait until 1944 to open a "Second Front" in Europe?

"You have to remember that in May of ’42, Roosevelt took the initiative to ask Stalin to send Molotov and a trusted general to Washington D.C.

"He met there with them.

"And during that meeting he turns to General Marshall, and he says, can the United States open up the second front before the end of 1942, open up the second front in Europe?

"And Marshall says yes.

"And then they issue a proclamation committing the United States to open up a second front."

Two years after the Soviets tore the guts out of Hitler's war machine.

D Day: Mythology of America as Liberator Feeds Trump’s Militarism

I see you forgot to mention that the russians worked WITH hitler at the start of the war, had a non-aggression pact, and managed to pick up some territory while the germans did the REAL work.....


If hitler hadn't invaded russia the russians would have been happy to let hitler continue his aggression while they (the russians) kept absorbing smaller countries.

They were NOT heroes.

And let us not forget that AFTER the war while the EVIL AMERICANS were busy spending money helping countries to rebuild and maintain their autonomy the russians KEPT all of the territory they stole, built walls to keep people in and slaughtered thousands.......

the russians were NOT "the good guys".....

Trying to equate Vietnam and Korea with the events of WWII is just plain pitiful--I'm amazed you would even try it--although it does reveal your anti-American agenda

My references to Vietnam and Korea were in response to a claim the Russians slaughtered thousands in the wake of WWII. Obviously, they did, but not on the opposite side of the planet from their homeland.

You may be uncomfortable with reality, but that doesn't change the number of innocent human beings who've been maimed, murdered, and displaced by the US military over the past 70 years.

I'm sure that whatever number you come up with would still pale in comparison to the 10's of millions of innocent people that Russia killed. Either through warfare..or neglect...or deliberate genocide.

You also seem, as those like you always do, to completely ignore the good that America has done through the years, the millions fed..freed from tyranny...given homes and medical care. To put in the context of WWII and its aftermath....let us consider the Berlin airlift..where we risked open warfare with the Soviets..to feed our former enemies. How about that?

You lack balance, accuracy and contextual awareness. You are presenting propaganda....and old and tired propaganda, at that...

BTW..to snip a piece of a post and present out of context so you can make a point is intellectually dishonest. Just sayin'...

You also seem, as those like you always do, to completely ignore the good that America has done through the years, the millions fed..freed from tyranny...given homes and medical care. To put in the context of WWII and its aftermath....let us consider the Berlin airlift..where we risked open warfare with the Soviets..to feed our former enemies. How about that?

Stalin was willing to allow German reunification in 1952:

Revolution of ’89

"Stalin’s 1952 proposal to unify Germany with free elections was flatly rejected because of his condition that a reunited Germany not join a U.S.-run military alliance, a sine qua non for any Soviet leadership.

"Had this and later initiatives been pursued, there might have been no Berlin wall and no Soviet invasions of East Berlin, Budapest and Prague."

As I said..completely ignore any good America did..and focus on a lie..USSR would never have allowed 'free' elections--it was a trick. Stalin and the Soviet leadership were committed to the destruction of the Capitalist West, it was core to their ideology. Yeah, they were willing to promise anything..to get rid of NATO.
I note that the USSR did not get out of East Germany..did not let up on East Berlin, and still had to pen its citizens up..lest they leave their 'workers paradise'.

Also..just to keep the record real..in 1952, the rest of Europe was not yet ready for German reunification..France in particular was dead set against it..and who can blame them?

As I said..completely ignore any good America did..and focus on a lie..USSR would never have allowed 'free' elections--it was a trick. Stalin and the Soviet leadership were committed to the destruction of the Capitalist West, it was core to their ideology. Yeah, they were willing to promise anything..to get rid of NATO.
I note that the USSR did not get out of East Germany..did not let up on East Berlin, and still had to pen its citizens up..lest they leave their 'workers paradise'.

Stalin had no illusions about his ability to destroy the capitalist west; he well understood how Russia was invaded twice in the 20th century by western capitalists, yet he still issued his 1952 Note regarding the reunification of a state that had recently killed 27 million Russians.

Do you think he was bluffing?

Stalin Note - Wikipedia

"The Stalin Note, also known as the March Note, was a document delivered to the representatives of the Western allied powers (the United Kingdom, France, and the United States) from the Soviet Occupation in Germany on March 10, 1952.

"Soviet leader Joseph Stalin put forth a proposal for a reunification and neutralization of Germany, with no conditions on economic policies and with guarantees for 'the rights of man and basic freedoms, including freedom of speech, press, religious persuasion, political conviction, and assembly' and free activity of democratic parties and organizations.

"James Warburg, member of the United States Senate Committee on Foreign Relations, testified before the committee on March 28, 1952 and observed that the Soviet proposal might be a bluff, but it seemed 'that our government is afraid to call the bluff for the fear that it may not be a bluff at all' and might lead to 'a free, neutral, and demilitarized Germany', which might be 'subverted into Soviet orbit'.

"This led to an exchange of notes between the Western allies and the Soviet Union, which eventually ended after the Western allies' insistence that a unified Germany should be free to join the European Defence Community and be rearmed, a demand which Stalin rejected."

 

[EvilEyeFleegle]

I'm using this to reply to all of your posts. You talk about myth..and you are busy trying to sell us on yours.
The obvious slant and anti-American propaganda is ridiculous..as well as your incorrect and revisionist view of the events of the last 70 years.
A few reminders..Stalin had FDR mesmerized. It was pitiful to watch. As FDR gushed about Papa Stalin..very reminiscent of Trump and Putin, BTW...the USSR was infiltrating thousands of spies into the US. When Donovan and Hoover tried to warn FDR..he discounted everything they had to say--so they mounted their own campaign to root out as many spies as they could. Once Truman took office, it was on---thus the Cold War.

Trying to equate Vietnam and Korea with the events of WWII is just plain pitiful--I'm amazed you would even try it--although it does reveal your anti-American agenda.

I wold point out the the 'butchering' in Vietnam went both ways..and while one can argue the rights and the wrongs..in the field it was war..and war is a shitty business..period.

You bring up the Spanish civil war? Really? You ask what America contributed to it? Well, Americans fought and died on both sides in that war...but what business of it was America's? Rightfully so, we stayed out of it..even though many civilians went to Spain..most all of them on the communist side. They lost..and they died. BTW..Stalin betrayed those people as well.

As I forensically study your posts it becomes clear that you are a fool..who has swallowed the Progression false narrative hook, line and sinker.

I see you forgot to mention that the russians worked WITH hitler at the start of the war, had a non-aggression pact, and managed to pick up some territory while the germans did the REAL work.....


If hitler hadn't invaded russia the russians would have been happy to let hitler continue his aggression while they (the russians) kept absorbing smaller countries.

They were NOT heroes.

And let us not forget that AFTER the war while the EVIL AMERICANS were busy spending money helping countries to rebuild and maintain their autonomy the russians KEPT all of the territory they stole, built walls to keep people in and slaughtered thousands.......

the russians were NOT "the good guys".....

Trying to equate Vietnam and Korea with the events of WWII is just plain pitiful--I'm amazed you would even try it--although it does reveal your anti-American agenda

My references to Vietnam and Korea were in response to a claim the Russians slaughtered thousands in the wake of WWII. Obviously, they did, but not on the opposite side of the planet from their homeland.

You may be uncomfortable with reality, but that doesn't change the number of innocent human beings who've been maimed, murdered, and displaced by the US military over the past 70 years.

I'm sure that whatever number you come up with would still pale in comparison to the 10's of millions of innocent people that Russia killed. Either through warfare..or neglect...or deliberate genocide.

You also seem, as those like you always do, to completely ignore the good that America has done through the years, the millions fed..freed from tyranny...given homes and medical care. To put in the context of WWII and its aftermath....let us consider the Berlin airlift..where we risked open warfare with the Soviets..to feed our former enemies. How about that?

You lack balance, accuracy and contextual awareness. You are presenting propaganda....and old and tired propaganda, at that...

BTW..to snip a piece of a post and present out of context so you can make a point is intellectually dishonest. Just sayin'...

You also seem, as those like you always do, to completely ignore the good that America has done through the years, the millions fed..freed from tyranny...given homes and medical care. To put in the context of WWII and its aftermath....let us consider the Berlin airlift..where we risked open warfare with the Soviets..to feed our former enemies. How about that?

Stalin was willing to allow German reunification in 1952:

Revolution of ’89

"Stalin’s 1952 proposal to unify Germany with free elections was flatly rejected because of his condition that a reunited Germany not join a U.S.-run military alliance, a sine qua non for any Soviet leadership.

"Had this and later initiatives been pursued, there might have been no Berlin wall and no Soviet invasions of East Berlin, Budapest and Prague."

As I said..completely ignore any good America did..and focus on a lie..USSR would never have allowed 'free' elections--it was a trick. Stalin and the Soviet leadership were committed to the destruction of the Capitalist West, it was core to their ideology. Yeah, they were willing to promise anything..to get rid of NATO.
I note that the USSR did not get out of East Germany..did not let up on East Berlin, and still had to pen its citizens up..lest they leave their 'workers paradise'.

Also..just to keep the record real..in 1952, the rest of Europe was not yet ready for German reunification..France in particular was dead set against it..and who can blame them?

As I said..completely ignore any good America did..and focus on a lie..USSR would never have allowed 'free' elections--it was a trick. Stalin and the Soviet leadership were committed to the destruction of the Capitalist West, it was core to their ideology. Yeah, they were willing to promise anything..to get rid of NATO.
I note that the USSR did not get out of East Germany..did not let up on East Berlin, and still had to pen its citizens up..lest they leave their 'workers paradise'.

Stalin had no illusions about his ability to destroy the capitalist west; he well understood how Russia was invaded twice in the 20th century by western capitalists, yet he still issued his 1952 Note regarding the reunification of a state that had recently killed 27 million Russians.

Do you think he was bluffing?

Stalin Note - Wikipedia

"The Stalin Note, also known as the March Note, was a document delivered to the representatives of the Western allied powers (the United Kingdom, France, and the United States) from the Soviet Occupation in Germany on March 10, 1952.

"Soviet leader Joseph Stalin put forth a proposal for a reunification and neutralization of Germany, with no conditions on economic policies and with guarantees for 'the rights of man and basic freedoms, including freedom of speech, press, religious persuasion, political conviction, and assembly' and free activity of democratic parties and organizations.

"James Warburg, member of the United States Senate Committee on Foreign Relations, testified before the committee on March 28, 1952 and observed that the Soviet proposal might be a bluff, but it seemed 'that our government is afraid to call the bluff for the fear that it may not be a bluff at all' and might lead to 'a free, neutral, and demilitarized Germany', which might be 'subverted into Soviet orbit'.

"This led to an exchange of notes between the Western allies and the Soviet Union, which eventually ended after the Western allies' insistence that a unified Germany should be free to join the European Defence Community and be rearmed, a demand which Stalin rejected."

Thank you the amusement! Invaded twice by those mean ole capitalists eh? Let's see..I guess you are calling WWI an invasion? Not much on history, are you? Russia's participation in that war was Russia's choice. They were allies of the British--albeit not very effective ones. Unless you are referring to the German plan to destabilize Russia by releasing the leaders of the communist revolution and sending them into Russia..an invasion?

I also note..with amusement..that you do not mention the many times the Soviet Union invaded others--or supported them in proxy wars..such as using Cuba in Africa..the many terrorist groups financed..and many countries destabilized. Unless your argument is balanced..it is,,as i have said...propaganda.

I do wonder though..has it occurred to you..that no one really even cares anymore? Russia..in the incarnation as the Soviet Union..LOST. Russia...in it's new identity as the oligarchs play-toy..will lose again...Putin..as the latest strongman will fail.

https://www.quora.com/Why-has-Russia-been-invaded-so-many-times

I applaud your single-minded effort to not actually respond to my posts..but to keep to your false narrative. do you actually think that anyone is going to believe it?

Are you Russian? If you are getting paid for this..someone is getting ripped off...LOL!

 

[georgephillip]

My references to Vietnam and Korea were in response to a claim the Russians slaughtered thousands in the wake of WWII. Obviously, they did, but not on the opposite side of the planet from their homeland.

You may be uncomfortable with reality, but that doesn't change the number of innocent human beings who've been maimed, murdered, and displaced by the US military over the past 70 years.

I'm sure that whatever number you come up with would still pale in comparison to the 10's of millions of innocent people that Russia killed. Either through warfare..or neglect...or deliberate genocide.

You also seem, as those like you always do, to completely ignore the good that America has done through the years, the millions fed..freed from tyranny...given homes and medical care. To put in the context of WWII and its aftermath....let us consider the Berlin airlift..where we risked open warfare with the Soviets..to feed our former enemies. How about that?

You lack balance, accuracy and contextual awareness. You are presenting propaganda....and old and tired propaganda, at that...

BTW..to snip a piece of a post and present out of context so you can make a point is intellectually dishonest. Just sayin'...

You also seem, as those like you always do, to completely ignore the good that America has done through the years, the millions fed..freed from tyranny...given homes and medical care. To put in the context of WWII and its aftermath....let us consider the Berlin airlift..where we risked open warfare with the Soviets..to feed our former enemies. How about that?

Stalin was willing to allow German reunification in 1952:

Revolution of ’89

"Stalin’s 1952 proposal to unify Germany with free elections was flatly rejected because of his condition that a reunited Germany not join a U.S.-run military alliance, a sine qua non for any Soviet leadership.

"Had this and later initiatives been pursued, there might have been no Berlin wall and no Soviet invasions of East Berlin, Budapest and Prague."

As I said..completely ignore any good America did..and focus on a lie..USSR would never have allowed 'free' elections--it was a trick. Stalin and the Soviet leadership were committed to the destruction of the Capitalist West, it was core to their ideology. Yeah, they were willing to promise anything..to get rid of NATO.
I note that the USSR did not get out of East Germany..did not let up on East Berlin, and still had to pen its citizens up..lest they leave their 'workers paradise'.

Also..just to keep the record real..in 1952, the rest of Europe was not yet ready for German reunification..France in particular was dead set against it..and who can blame them?

As I said..completely ignore any good America did..and focus on a lie..USSR would never have allowed 'free' elections--it was a trick. Stalin and the Soviet leadership were committed to the destruction of the Capitalist West, it was core to their ideology. Yeah, they were willing to promise anything..to get rid of NATO.
I note that the USSR did not get out of East Germany..did not let up on East Berlin, and still had to pen its citizens up..lest they leave their 'workers paradise'.

Stalin had no illusions about his ability to destroy the capitalist west; he well understood how Russia was invaded twice in the 20th century by western capitalists, yet he still issued his 1952 Note regarding the reunification of a state that had recently killed 27 million Russians.

Do you think he was bluffing?

Stalin Note - Wikipedia

"The Stalin Note, also known as the March Note, was a document delivered to the representatives of the Western allied powers (the United Kingdom, France, and the United States) from the Soviet Occupation in Germany on March 10, 1952.

"Soviet leader Joseph Stalin put forth a proposal for a reunification and neutralization of Germany, with no conditions on economic policies and with guarantees for 'the rights of man and basic freedoms, including freedom of speech, press, religious persuasion, political conviction, and assembly' and free activity of democratic parties and organizations.

"James Warburg, member of the United States Senate Committee on Foreign Relations, testified before the committee on March 28, 1952 and observed that the Soviet proposal might be a bluff, but it seemed 'that our government is afraid to call the bluff for the fear that it may not be a bluff at all' and might lead to 'a free, neutral, and demilitarized Germany', which might be 'subverted into Soviet orbit'.

"This led to an exchange of notes between the Western allies and the Soviet Union, which eventually ended after the Western allies' insistence that a unified Germany should be free to join the European Defence Community and be rearmed, a demand which Stalin rejected."

Thank you the amusement! Invaded twice by those mean ole capitalists eh? Let's see..I guess you are calling WWI an invasion? Not much on history, are you? Russia's participation in that war was Russia's choice. They were allies of the British--albeit not very effective ones. Unless you are referring to the German plan to destabilize Russia by releasing the leaders of the communist revolution and sending them into Russia..an invasion?

I also note..with amusement..that you do not mention the many times the Soviet Union invaded others--or supported them in proxy wars..such as using Cuba in Africa..the many terrorist groups financed..and many countries destabilized. Unless your argument is balanced..it is,,as i have said...propaganda.

I do wonder though..has it occurred to you..that no one really even cares anymore? Russia..in the incarnation as the Soviet Union..LOST. Russia...in it's new identity as the oligarchs play-toy..will lose again...Putin..as the latest strongman will fail.

https://www.quora.com/Why-has-Russia-been-invaded-so-many-times

I applaud your single-minded effort to not actually respond to my posts..but to keep to your false narrative. do you actually think that anyone is going to believe it?

Are you Russian? If you are getting paid for this..someone is getting ripped off...LOL!

Thank you the amusement! Invaded twice by those mean ole capitalists eh? Let's see..I guess you are calling WWI an invasion? Not much on history, are you? Russia's participation in that war was Russia's choice. They were allies of the British--albeit not very effective ones. Unless you are referring to the German plan to destabilize Russia by releasing the leaders of the communist revolution and sending them into Russia..an invasion?

Where did you "study" History, Trump U?

"After the Bolshevik government withdrew from World War I, the Allied Powers openly backed the anti-communist White forces in Russia. Allied efforts were hampered by divided objectives, war-weariness from the overall global conflict, and a lack of domestic support. These factors, together with the evacuation of the Czechoslovak Legion, compelled the Allied Powers to withdraw from North Russia and Siberia in 1920, though Japanese forces occupied parts of Siberia until 1922 and the northern half of Sakhalin until 1925.[8]"
Allied intervention in the Russian Civil War - Wikipedia

 

[EvilEyeFleegle]

I'm sure that whatever number you come up with would still pale in comparison to the 10's of millions of innocent people that Russia killed. Either through warfare..or neglect...or deliberate genocide.

You also seem, as those like you always do, to completely ignore the good that America has done through the years, the millions fed..freed from tyranny...given homes and medical care. To put in the context of WWII and its aftermath....let us consider the Berlin airlift..where we risked open warfare with the Soviets..to feed our former enemies. How about that?

You lack balance, accuracy and contextual awareness. You are presenting propaganda....and old and tired propaganda, at that...

BTW..to snip a piece of a post and present out of context so you can make a point is intellectually dishonest. Just sayin'...

You also seem, as those like you always do, to completely ignore the good that America has done through the years, the millions fed..freed from tyranny...given homes and medical care. To put in the context of WWII and its aftermath....let us consider the Berlin airlift..where we risked open warfare with the Soviets..to feed our former enemies. How about that?

Stalin was willing to allow German reunification in 1952:

Revolution of ’89

"Stalin’s 1952 proposal to unify Germany with free elections was flatly rejected because of his condition that a reunited Germany not join a U.S.-run military alliance, a sine qua non for any Soviet leadership.

"Had this and later initiatives been pursued, there might have been no Berlin wall and no Soviet invasions of East Berlin, Budapest and Prague."

As I said..completely ignore any good America did..and focus on a lie..USSR would never have allowed 'free' elections--it was a trick. Stalin and the Soviet leadership were committed to the destruction of the Capitalist West, it was core to their ideology. Yeah, they were willing to promise anything..to get rid of NATO.
I note that the USSR did not get out of East Germany..did not let up on East Berlin, and still had to pen its citizens up..lest they leave their 'workers paradise'.

Also..just to keep the record real..in 1952, the rest of Europe was not yet ready for German reunification..France in particular was dead set against it..and who can blame them?

As I said..completely ignore any good America did..and focus on a lie..USSR would never have allowed 'free' elections--it was a trick. Stalin and the Soviet leadership were committed to the destruction of the Capitalist West, it was core to their ideology. Yeah, they were willing to promise anything..to get rid of NATO.
I note that the USSR did not get out of East Germany..did not let up on East Berlin, and still had to pen its citizens up..lest they leave their 'workers paradise'.

Stalin had no illusions about his ability to destroy the capitalist west; he well understood how Russia was invaded twice in the 20th century by western capitalists, yet he still issued his 1952 Note regarding the reunification of a state that had recently killed 27 million Russians.

Do you think he was bluffing?

Stalin Note - Wikipedia

"The Stalin Note, also known as the March Note, was a document delivered to the representatives of the Western allied powers (the United Kingdom, France, and the United States) from the Soviet Occupation in Germany on March 10, 1952.

"Soviet leader Joseph Stalin put forth a proposal for a reunification and neutralization of Germany, with no conditions on economic policies and with guarantees for 'the rights of man and basic freedoms, including freedom of speech, press, religious persuasion, political conviction, and assembly' and free activity of democratic parties and organizations.

"James Warburg, member of the United States Senate Committee on Foreign Relations, testified before the committee on March 28, 1952 and observed that the Soviet proposal might be a bluff, but it seemed 'that our government is afraid to call the bluff for the fear that it may not be a bluff at all' and might lead to 'a free, neutral, and demilitarized Germany', which might be 'subverted into Soviet orbit'.

"This led to an exchange of notes between the Western allies and the Soviet Union, which eventually ended after the Western allies' insistence that a unified Germany should be free to join the European Defence Community and be rearmed, a demand which Stalin rejected."

Thank you the amusement! Invaded twice by those mean ole capitalists eh? Let's see..I guess you are calling WWI an invasion? Not much on history, are you? Russia's participation in that war was Russia's choice. They were allies of the British--albeit not very effective ones. Unless you are referring to the German plan to destabilize Russia by releasing the leaders of the communist revolution and sending them into Russia..an invasion?

I also note..with amusement..that you do not mention the many times the Soviet Union invaded others--or supported them in proxy wars..such as using Cuba in Africa..the many terrorist groups financed..and many countries destabilized. Unless your argument is balanced..it is,,as i have said...propaganda.

I do wonder though..has it occurred to you..that no one really even cares anymore? Russia..in the incarnation as the Soviet Union..LOST. Russia...in it's new identity as the oligarchs play-toy..will lose again...Putin..as the latest strongman will fail.

https://www.quora.com/Why-has-Russia-been-invaded-so-many-times

I applaud your single-minded effort to not actually respond to my posts..but to keep to your false narrative. do you actually think that anyone is going to believe it?

Are you Russian? If you are getting paid for this..someone is getting ripped off...LOL!

Thank you the amusement! Invaded twice by those mean ole capitalists eh? Let's see..I guess you are calling WWI an invasion? Not much on history, are you? Russia's participation in that war was Russia's choice. They were allies of the British--albeit not very effective ones. Unless you are referring to the German plan to destabilize Russia by releasing the leaders of the communist revolution and sending them into Russia..an invasion?

Where did you "study" History, Trump U?

"After the Bolshevik government withdrew from World War I, the Allied Powers openly backed the anti-communist White forces in Russia. Allied efforts were hampered by divided objectives, war-weariness from the overall global conflict, and a lack of domestic support. These factors, together with the evacuation of the Czechoslovak Legion, compelled the Allied Powers to withdraw from North Russia and Siberia in 1920, though Japanese forces occupied parts of Siberia until 1922 and the northern half of Sakhalin until 1925.[8]"
Allied intervention in the Russian Civil War - Wikipedia

1) The Japanese were hardly 'western capitalist powers and 2) we were attempting to aid a Democratic Revolution, a real one...hardly an invasion, by any stretch.

How very different the world would have been..had the 'White' Russians won. How many of the millions Stalin slaughtered would have lived...Without the treaty that Stalin and Hitler had...would that have tempered Hitler's ambitions? We will never know. It is possible that the German invasion of Russia would never have taken place..and if it had, Russia would have been ready....

The bad guys won, in Russia..not the good ones.

I study history every day..and have for 60 years.