Currency without a US Central Bank

[CrusaderFrank]

In another thread it was brought up that one of the benefits of having a Federal Reserve is that the US Dollar became the worlds reserve currency. While the idea has some merit that I don't want to debate here, consider the possibility of currency without a US Central bank.

We keep forgetting that US States are as large, well populated and generate as much economic activity as entire European nations. CA would be one of the world's largest (Failing Socialist) economies.

So, if there were no Federal Reserve how would it work?

Each state could issue currency the same way Germans issued Marcs, the Swiss Francs and the British pounds. The state would initially try to set a value for the currency backed by the taxing power from commodity or commodities produced in the state: gold, CDMA chips, wheat, etc.

The value would ultimately be set commodity exchanges on a daily basis where people hedge risks and speculators take their chances on the markets.

While the US Dollar would no longer be the world reserve currency, so what?

 

[Paulie]

You won't find many on here who agree with this more than I do, but globalization has ruined this for ever happening.

 

[Douger]

You'll have your answer soon enough.
Nobody will " loan" you any money.......AKA buy your junk bonds.
Your govt will collapse and you'll have total anarchy.
Go do some research on Argentina's collapse and plan accordingly.
Keep in mind you live in the most heavily armed nation on earth, full of psychotic, drugged up,radical assholes, so multiply Argentina's scenario by 1000

 

[Oddball]

In another thread it was brought up that one of the benefits of having a Federal Reserve is that the US Dollar became the worlds reserve currency. While the idea has some merit that I don't want to debate here, consider the possibility of currency without a US Central bank.

We keep forgetting that US States are as large, well populated and generate as much economic activity as entire European nations. CA would be one of the world's largest (Failing Socialist) economies.

So, if there were no Federal Reserve how would it work?

Each state could issue currency the same way Germans issued Marcs, the Swiss Francs and the British pounds. The state would initially try to set a value for the currency backed by the taxing power from commodity or commodities produced in the state: gold, CDMA chips, wheat, etc.

The value would ultimately be set commodity exchanges on a daily basis where people hedge risks and speculators take their chances on the markets.

While the US Dollar would no longer be the world reserve currency, so what?

Since all the currency would be redeemable for specie, per Article 1, Section 10, it wouldn't matter if each state issued currency, or even if a private bank issued its own commercial script.

One thing's for certain, though...The feds couldn't just try to print their way out of the fiscal craters they've dug.

 

[william the wie]

In another thread it was brought up that one of the benefits of having a Federal Reserve is that the US Dollar became the worlds reserve currency. While the idea has some merit that I don't want to debate here, consider the possibility of currency without a US Central bank.

We keep forgetting that US States are as large, well populated and generate as much economic activity as entire European nations. CA would be one of the world's largest (Failing Socialist) economies.

So, if there were no Federal Reserve how would it work?

Each state could issue currency the same way Germans issued Marcs, the Swiss Francs and the British pounds. The state would initially try to set a value for the currency backed by the taxing power from commodity or commodities produced in the state: gold, CDMA chips, wheat, etc.

The value would ultimately be set commodity exchanges on a daily basis where people hedge risks and speculators take their chances on the markets.

While the US Dollar would no longer be the world reserve currency, so what?

Since all the currency would be redeemable for specie, per Article 1, Section 10, it wouldn't matter if each state issued currency, or even if a private bank issued its own commercial script.

One thing's for certain, though...The feds couldn't just try to print their way out of the fiscal craters they've dug.

I think plain old warehouse receipts as in this note is a receipt for one gm of gold, silver, rhodium or whatever held at 2015 main street Dogpatch, Arkansas is the way to go. Nobody has any idea what the future value of gold or anything else will be if desalination or asteroid mining takes off since precious metals would be a byproduct production of mining nickel or unloading sea salt. Nor are future industrial uses known computer chips already are starting to eat up gold it also is a catalyst for mitochondria in biotech. Yes Gold is an essential mineral in your diet and so is Arsenic but in very tiny amounts. In a biotech critter it might be needed in much larger quantities. So I would like to avoid seeing the economy married to a single product whose value could change drastically and quickly and repeatedly in different directions. More market oriented media of exchange will be needed as the economy and technology evolve. Also top down solutions work poorly in markets as the current administration is demonstrating.

 

[KissMy]

Permit me to issue and control the money of the nation and I care not who makes its laws.

The Federal Reserves job was to expand & contract the money supply to maintain full employment & lend only to credit worthy borrowers. Those parameters were perfect for maintaining currency as a store of value. You could work extra hard & put some money away for the future so you could retire without burdening others.

Then congress & presidents over the years tinkered with it. Once Congress included racist backing subprime mortgages so the minorities could buy more homes than they had financial discipline to pay for the currency went to shit. It was not primarily the minorities who took the system down but they were the reason they changed the rules. The value of the dollar is only as good as the credit of the borrower. Using racist affirmative action for lending standards instead of credit ratings doomed the currency. The US government's monster debt will eventually get a ratings downgrade. Since they are one of the largest borrowers of dollars their credit rating for the most part helps determines the dollars value.

 

[Baruch Menachem]

the federal reserve was not set up until 1914. From the time Andrew Jackson closed down the bank of the United States until Woodrow Wilson came up with the Federal Reserve, banks issues their own currency. As did cities, states, railroads, etc. the currency had to be US dollars. One of the first reforms of the Lincoln Administration was the Comptroller of the Currency. This office licensed banks that issued currency. With the creation of the Federal Reserve, the comptrollers office no longer issued licenses to print money, but banks that had licenses continued to print their own money until the licenses expired in 1924

Just because there was not governmnent sanctioned central bank does not mean that the functions of a central bank did not exiist. The house of Morgan acted as a central bank on several occasions throughout the late 19th century.

The federal reserve is mostly noted for its rather abject failures at the job.

 

[Modbert]

This would be impossible in 2010 and economically unfeasible.

 

[Paulie]

the federal reserve was not set up until 1914. From the time Andrew Jackson closed down the bank of the United States until Woodrow Wilson came up with the Federal Reserve, banks issues their own currency. As did cities, states, railroads, etc. the currency had to be US dollars. One of the first reforms of the Lincoln Administration was the Comptroller of the Currency. This office licensed banks that issued currency. With the creation of the Federal Reserve, the comptrollers office no longer issued licenses to print money, but banks that had licenses continued to print their own money until the licenses expired in 1924

Just because there was not governmnent sanctioned central bank does not mean that the functions of a central bank did not exiist. The house of Morgan acted as a central bank on several occasions throughout the late 19th century.

The federal reserve is mostly noted for its rather abject failures at the job.

Don't think for one second that the house of Morgan stopped there, either. They were one of the biggest players in the creation of the Fed, if not THE biggest.

Any idiot knows money is the most important thing in the world. One can argue against that with ridiculous emotional opinions, but at the end of the day it's that piece of paper that calls the shots.

We can have a completely private central bank, or a completely public Bank of the US, and we will still get the same results, because those with the most power will still be calling the shots.

We can argue this and a plethora of other political and economic issues until the cows come home, and none of it matters if we're going to keep putting the worst people in office that make the decisions.

Let's just wake up right now and recognize that almost all of Congress is owned by those who couldn't give a flying FUCK about "the people". ESPECIALLY anyone who's served more than 1 term in their seat.

We have the opportunity in November to literally make a REAL change.

But we won't. Left and right will ruin it like it always has, and when that gets added into the collective lack of common sense and intelligence in the electorate, we'll meet the same fate as always. We get FUCKED.

 

[william the wie]

This would be impossible in 2010 and economically unfeasible.

More impossible and unfeasible than surviving a central bank incompetent to inflate the economy? I really want to see a reasoned defense of the Japanese post-1993 economic plan a la Bernancke because I don't think that is possible.

 

[william the wie]

the federal reserve was not set up until 1914. From the time Andrew Jackson closed down the bank of the United States until Woodrow Wilson came up with the Federal Reserve, banks issues their own currency. As did cities, states, railroads, etc. the currency had to be US dollars. One of the first reforms of the Lincoln Administration was the Comptroller of the Currency. This office licensed banks that issued currency. With the creation of the Federal Reserve, the comptrollers office no longer issued licenses to print money, but banks that had licenses continued to print their own money until the licenses expired in 1924

Just because there was not governmnent sanctioned central bank does not mean that the functions of a central bank did not exiist. The house of Morgan acted as a central bank on several occasions throughout the late 19th century.

The federal reserve is mostly noted for its rather abject failures at the job.

Don't think for one second that the house of Morgan stopped there, either. They were one of the biggest players in the creation of the Fed, if not THE biggest.

Any idiot knows money is the most important thing in the world. One can argue against that with ridiculous emotional opinions, but at the end of the day it's that piece of paper that calls the shots.

We can have a completely private central bank, or a completely public Bank of the US, and we will still get the same results, because those with the most power will still be calling the shots.

We can argue this and a plethora of other political and economic issues until the cows come home, and none of it matters if we're going to keep putting the worst people in office that make the decisions.

Let's just wake up right now and recognize that almost all of Congress is owned by those who couldn't give a flying FUCK about "the people". ESPECIALLY anyone who's served more than 1 term in their seat.

We have the opportunity in November to literally make a REAL change.

But we won't. Left and right will ruin it like it always has, and when that gets added into the collective lack of common sense and intelligence in the electorate, we'll meet the same fate as always. We get FUCKED.

Sounds like you have also read "The House of Morgan". A good thread there sometime when it's kind of dead here.

 

[Paulie]

the federal reserve was not set up until 1914. From the time Andrew Jackson closed down the bank of the United States until Woodrow Wilson came up with the Federal Reserve, banks issues their own currency. As did cities, states, railroads, etc. the currency had to be US dollars. One of the first reforms of the Lincoln Administration was the Comptroller of the Currency. This office licensed banks that issued currency. With the creation of the Federal Reserve, the comptrollers office no longer issued licenses to print money, but banks that had licenses continued to print their own money until the licenses expired in 1924

Just because there was not governmnent sanctioned central bank does not mean that the functions of a central bank did not exiist. The house of Morgan acted as a central bank on several occasions throughout the late 19th century.

The federal reserve is mostly noted for its rather abject failures at the job.

Don't think for one second that the house of Morgan stopped there, either. They were one of the biggest players in the creation of the Fed, if not THE biggest.

Any idiot knows money is the most important thing in the world. One can argue against that with ridiculous emotional opinions, but at the end of the day it's that piece of paper that calls the shots.

We can have a completely private central bank, or a completely public Bank of the US, and we will still get the same results, because those with the most power will still be calling the shots.

We can argue this and a plethora of other political and economic issues until the cows come home, and none of it matters if we're going to keep putting the worst people in office that make the decisions.

Let's just wake up right now and recognize that almost all of Congress is owned by those who couldn't give a flying FUCK about "the people". ESPECIALLY anyone who's served more than 1 term in their seat.

We have the opportunity in November to literally make a REAL change.

But we won't. Left and right will ruin it like it always has, and when that gets added into the collective lack of common sense and intelligence in the electorate, we'll meet the same fate as always. We get FUCKED.

Sounds like you have also read "The House of Morgan". A good thread there sometime when it's kind of dead here.

I have to be honest, I have not read that, or just about any other similar material. I've skimmed 'Creature', seen the documentary about Jekyll Island, and read numerous anecdotes from various op-eds that I try my best to cross check with solid facts.

That, coupled with what my lying eyes see happening right in front of my face, and what I think is a pretty damn good rudimentary grasp of macro and micro economics, and I don't really need to immerse myself in something I already know will only upset me further.

It also helps that I understand cognitive dissonance, and how to recognize when it's obviously blinding a collective.

We're about as cognitively dissonant as a society as we've ever been. Most likely not ironic at all is that in many ways, we might be as fearful a society as we've ever been. We've been fearful of various wars many different times in the past, and with plenty of justification, but we've arrived at a point in our existence where it's commonly accepted that no one else can touch us militarily now. So to still be as fearful as we are, not against an outside aggressor but instead our own citizens and government, that says a lot.

There's no better way to control a society than by fear.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

This would be impossible in 2010 and economically unfeasible.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D58LpHBnvsI&feature=related]YouTube - An inconceivable Montage[/ame]

 

[The Rabbi]

the federal reserve was not set up until 1914. From the time Andrew Jackson closed down the bank of the United States until Woodrow Wilson came up with the Federal Reserve, banks issues their own currency. As did cities, states, railroads, etc. the currency had to be US dollars. One of the first reforms of the Lincoln Administration was the Comptroller of the Currency. This office licensed banks that issued currency. With the creation of the Federal Reserve, the comptrollers office no longer issued licenses to print money, but banks that had licenses continued to print their own money until the licenses expired in 1924

Just because there was not governmnent sanctioned central bank does not mean that the functions of a central bank did not exiist. The house of Morgan acted as a central bank on several occasions throughout the late 19th century.

The federal reserve is mostly noted for its rather abject failures at the job.

An the system was a mess. There was a brisk trade in bank notes as people tried to figure out what they were really worth. Add in inefficiency in having to change notes from one type to another and you see how bad it could be.
The Fed has actually done an OK job, with several notable failures. But recessions have been less frequent and less severe since the Fed's creation.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

If you go after the Fed directly, if you;re lucky, they will crush you and marginalize you.

 

[Neubarth]

One thing's for certain, though...The feds couldn't just try to print their way out of the fiscal craters they've dug.

The FED (Which is the greatest institution ever conceived on Earth) has never printed money and they have never dug a crater. The Congress of the United States has done both as I have pointed out to you fifty times now. STOP blaming the FED for what Congress has done.

The FED is our only salvation. Congress can not dismiss Trillions of dollars of debt, but the FED can. Now, I know you clowns can not understand the concept, because you are stuck inside the BOX and can not think outside of it, but it would be very easy for the FED to make all of the US Debt that they hold to disappear. POOOOOOF!!!!!! Gone!

 

[Baruch Menachem]

the federal reserve was not set up until 1914. From the time Andrew Jackson closed down the bank of the United States until Woodrow Wilson came up with the Federal Reserve, banks issues their own currency. As did cities, states, railroads, etc. the currency had to be US dollars. One of the first reforms of the Lincoln Administration was the Comptroller of the Currency. This office licensed banks that issued currency. With the creation of the Federal Reserve, the comptrollers office no longer issued licenses to print money, but banks that had licenses continued to print their own money until the licenses expired in 1924

Just because there was not governmnent sanctioned central bank does not mean that the functions of a central bank did not exiist. The house of Morgan acted as a central bank on several occasions throughout the late 19th century.

The federal reserve is mostly noted for its rather abject failures at the job.

An the system was a mess. There was a brisk trade in bank notes as people tried to figure out what they were really worth. Add in inefficiency in having to change notes from one type to another and you see how bad it could be.
The Fed has actually done an OK job, with several notable failures. But recessions have been less frequent and less severe since the Fed's creation.

I agree that having all those different banks write all those different notes caused lots of stupidity and friction. Having one bank issue one set of bank notes is a huge step in the right direction.


But the Fed has not reduced the size, frequency or the severity of the contractions. On balance, I think they have exacerbated them. Prior to the Fed there was nothing like the stupidity of the Fed policies of 1929, and nothing like a depression that lasted 11 years,

 

[Neubarth]

But the Fed has not reduced the size, frequency or the severity of the contractions. On balance, I think they have exacerbated them. Prior to the Fed there was nothing like the stupidity of the Fed policies of 1929, and nothing like a depression that lasted 11 years,

The FED policies of 1929 certainly did not help the economy, but their overall effect was minimal. A lot of you people ascribe tremendous power to the overnight interest rate. That control has minimal impact on the economy. Global economic conditions have 90 percent of the real economic effects in this country.

Just look at what the Arab Oil Embargo did to us several decades ago in the 1970's

 

[The Rabbi]

the federal reserve was not set up until 1914. From the time Andrew Jackson closed down the bank of the United States until Woodrow Wilson came up with the Federal Reserve, banks issues their own currency. As did cities, states, railroads, etc. the currency had to be US dollars. One of the first reforms of the Lincoln Administration was the Comptroller of the Currency. This office licensed banks that issued currency. With the creation of the Federal Reserve, the comptrollers office no longer issued licenses to print money, but banks that had licenses continued to print their own money until the licenses expired in 1924

Just because there was not governmnent sanctioned central bank does not mean that the functions of a central bank did not exiist. The house of Morgan acted as a central bank on several occasions throughout the late 19th century.

The federal reserve is mostly noted for its rather abject failures at the job.

An the system was a mess. There was a brisk trade in bank notes as people tried to figure out what they were really worth. Add in inefficiency in having to change notes from one type to another and you see how bad it could be.
The Fed has actually done an OK job, with several notable failures. But recessions have been less frequent and less severe since the Fed's creation.

I agree that having all those different banks write all those different notes caused lots of stupidity and friction. Having one bank issue one set of bank notes is a huge step in the right direction.


But the Fed has not reduced the size, frequency or the severity of the contractions. On balance, I think they have exacerbated them. Prior to the Fed there was nothing like the stupidity of the Fed policies of 1929, and nothing like a depression that lasted 11 years,

That is simply not true. Look at the panics and depressions in the pre fed era, like in 1893. They were much worse. The Great Depression was largely an aberration, caused by gov't fiscal policy.