Crystal Meth: The Three Point Political Question.

[Robert]

The Meth Epidemic - Video | FRONTLINE | PBS

Oregon has apparently had some measurable success controlling meth addiction by putting Sudafed and products like it behind a prescription label, effectively killing the supply side by denying small kitchen labs the main ingredient. The statistics also owe a measure of success stemming from the good luck of the Oregon law happening at the same time the Mexican Government effectively put the Mexican factory labs out of business by banning the import of pseudoephedrine.

It looks like meth availability and use can be dramatically altered in America by how tightly We, The People control the sale of pseudoephedrine.

The political question I can't decide in my own mind is this: The Socialist horror of lives destroyed by Crystal Methadone and the fall out society pays for it -vs- the Liberal free enterprise sale of anything a consenting adult wants, including Sudafed - idiots too stupid to walk away from meth be damned, and Conserving the status quo Pharma-billion$ that go bye-bye if Congress decides to force America to get a 'scrip for cold medicine?

With the exception of not having any love-lost for the pharmaceutical lobby on the Conservative side, I really am not sure how I feel about this one?

The problem is the addiction and resulting cost and crime that effects everyone. As a society we can not IMO justify allowing a segment of our population to harm themselves and everyone around them simply because they have an addiction problem.

The cost of supporting these people is horrendous they have no means to pay for anything so we as a society end up footing the bill.

The resulting crime is also paid for by society and that cost is beyond horrendous.

I had a real eye opener if you ever get to Canada go to Vancouver in the city theirs an entire block where the druggies congregate watch for a while. How is something like that allow in a civilized nation.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

I'm leaning that way too... it's hard though, meth is incredibly ruinous. I can't quite bring myself to feel like the addicts are without choice in the matter but DAMN that is some serious self-abuse.

It is totally destructive. I hate to see anyone abuse themselves that way. The grind their teeth to nubs, pick at their faces until they are scarred for life, it's a sad, horrible existence. I hate that shit!! I feel sorry for these people too. They need serious help.

We have to rely on natural selection to weed out the dummies.....Hopefully they don't have children.

The show I linked filmed a support group for women recovering from meth and each one of them had at least one li'l squab on their lap or at their feet. It also spoke of a child whose father taught her the recipe at age 9 - and that was the mild abuse she suffered. Apparently, addicts pimp their kids for dope. Very sad. Very disgusting.

Yeah....alcoholics always make much-better parents!! I had friends (my age, when I was younger) who were considered local-outlaws....and, preferred to spend most o' their time on-the-street, 'cause their alcoholic-parents maintained too-stable a homefront (for them)!!!

"Funny" thing.....those kids (also) went-on to develop problems with drugs (including alcohol).​

 

[georgephillip]

I'm a college educated CEO earning six figures and I used meth for years. It's got a grip on lots of folks, not just stupid idiots. These days I debauch myself with kinder gentler things like alcohol and tobacco.

So how do you feeeeeeeeeel about the political question? Do We, The Peeps need to step up the fight, even if it means an assault on Pharma-profits and stepping all over certain freedoms in the market place?

I tried it in my 20's.... Fortunately, I didn't go down that road - can't tell you why, just one more example of me being a lucky bastard.

I'm not of the opinion that liberals promote a blanket endorsement of laissez-fair lifestyles without regard of consequence to self or society, although there are many instances where it would so appear. For example, over the counter "morning after" drugs is a contentious issue.

Restricting the availability of meth ingredients (including lithium batteries) is a good start and I hardly think it would appreciably affect the profits of the Pharm industry. But to go a step further and include common household products is a bit of a reach.

Education is a noble effort but honestly there are too many uneducable folks out there who just don't give a shit. Jails and hospitals are depots of last resort. So yeah- take away the tools and the means to make it as difficult as possible to manufacture. Seems the quickest and easiest way to go.

I didn't "walk away" from meth. If it was put in front of me today I'd surely go on another bender. I walked away from the folks who had the tools to make it and the means to procure it. It's out of sight, out of reach... but never out of mind.

The End.

In one sense I "walked away" from meth in early 1995 by literally walking sixty some miles from where I was living at the time as a last resort for getting away from "those with the tools to make it and the means to produce it."

One of the most powerful scenes in the Frontline video, at least to my mind, is the explanation of the one-of-a-kind dopamine spike that speed produces.

Sixteen years since my last hit and I agree "out of sight, out of reach...but never out of mind."

 

[Mr. Shaman]

I'm a college educated CEO earning six figures and I used meth for years. It's got a grip on lots of folks, not just stupid idiots. These days I debauch myself with kinder gentler things like alcohol and tobacco.

So how do you feeeeeeeeeel about the political question? Do We, The Peeps need to step up the fight, even if it means an assault on Pharma-profits and stepping all over certain freedoms in the market place?

I tried it in my 20's.... Fortunately, I didn't go down that road - can't tell you why, just one more example of me being a lucky bastard.

Luck's got nothin' to do with it.

People (either) recognize their vices are unnecessary/destructive...and, quit....or, for whatever-reason, don't give a fuck....and, keep using.....much like fat-people and food.​

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Tough topic. I remember sitting in a seminar when smoking started to be taboo. Before the rules were no smoking someone would light up, and the fights would begin. I loved smoking so much I never thought I'd get over the need, but I did long ago. Compulsive behavior is hard to manage and today we have parties in which the alcohol flows in all forms. How can you make a substance that can bring brief pleasure not be the be all and end all for some?

Quite simply....help them figure-out why they started using.

Too many people want to blame DRUGS (yeah...that still includes alcohol) for peoples' addiction.

I've known quite-a-few people, who'd developed substance-abuse issues....who'd had serious emotional-problems/issues, loooooooooong before they had access to any kinds of drugs.​

 

[Mr. Shaman]

I'm leaning that way too... it's hard though, meth is incredibly ruinous. I can't quite bring myself to feel like the addicts are without choice in the matter but DAMN that is some serious self-abuse.

It is totally destructive. I hate to see anyone abuse themselves that way. The grind their teeth to nubs, pick at their faces until they are scarred for life, it's a sad, horrible existence. I hate that shit!! I feel sorry for these people too. They need serious help.

We have to rely on natural selection to weed out the dummies.....Hopefully they don't have children.

Oh look...someone is drowning...how interesting. Why bother suggesting they need help? That implies you might do something about it.. Not.

No doubt.

That's the magic o' natural-selection....especially for the lazy-fuckers who rely-on-it....there's no (actual) WORK required!

PRAISE THE LAWD!!​

 

[Two Thumbs]

It's a terribly bad idea that IS spreading onto other products.

Primatine Mist

If you don't need to use it, and you do, you can get 10 seconds of head spin and 30 seconds of blood rush as the heart speeds up. Apparently it gives models a "Flush look" [dont know what the means]

I have been carrying this around since my earliest memories. Now all of a sudden I will need a script to buy it in the future. A product that cost me $15 dollars, will now cost me a $35 co-pay.

Government is a cancer, it spreads bad things around. It is NOT our parents.

People will just move on to other drugs. The violence will continue and we will keep putting people in jail b/c the government demands that we obey prohabition laws.

 

[cutter]

I know in Kalifornia they are kept behind the pharmacy counter too but all you have to do is ask for them, no prescription needed. They put them behind the counter so someone can't buy 20 or so at a time. 1 at a time is ok.

 

[Intense]

The Meth Epidemic - Video | FRONTLINE | PBS

Oregon has apparently had some measurable success controlling meth addiction by putting Sudafed and products like it behind a prescription label, effectively killing the supply side by denying small kitchen labs the main ingredient. The statistics also owe a measure of success stemming from the good luck of the Oregon law happening at the same time the Mexican Government effectively put the Mexican factory labs out of business by banning the import of pseudoephedrine.

It looks like meth availability and use can be dramatically altered in America by how tightly We, The People control the sale of pseudoephedrine.

The political question I can't decide in my own mind is this: The Socialist horror of lives destroyed by Crystal Methadone and the fall out society pays for it -vs- the Liberal free enterprise sale of anything a consenting adult wants, including Sudafed - idiots too stupid to walk away from meth be damned, and Conserving the status quo Pharma-billion$ that go bye-bye if Congress decides to force America to get a 'scrip for cold medicine?

With the exception of not having any love-lost for the pharmaceutical lobby on the Conservative side, I really am not sure how I feel about this one?

Take a step back and ask yourself why we have a system that requires a Prescription for dangerous Drugs and Medicines in the first place??? To what end??? How effective and responsible is it to date??? What is the down side again???

 

[Mr. Shaman]

The Meth Epidemic - Video | FRONTLINE | PBS

Oregon has apparently had some measurable success controlling meth addiction by putting Sudafed and products like it behind a prescription label, effectively killing the supply side by denying small kitchen labs the main ingredient. The statistics also owe a measure of success stemming from the good luck of the Oregon law happening at the same time the Mexican Government effectively put the Mexican factory labs out of business by banning the import of pseudoephedrine.

It looks like meth availability and use can be dramatically altered in America by how tightly We, The People control the sale of pseudoephedrine.

The political question I can't decide in my own mind is this: The Socialist horror of lives destroyed by Crystal Methadone and the fall out society pays for it -vs- the Liberal free enterprise sale of anything a consenting adult wants, including Sudafed - idiots too stupid to walk away from meth be damned, and Conserving the status quo Pharma-billion$ that go bye-bye if Congress decides to force America to get a 'scrip for cold medicine?

With the exception of not having any love-lost for the pharmaceutical lobby on the Conservative side, I really am not sure how I feel about this one?

The problem is the addiction and resulting cost and crime that effects everyone. As a society we can not IMO justify allowing a segment of our population to harm themselves and everyone around them simply because they have an addiction problem.

The cost of supporting these people is horrendous they have no means to pay for anything so we as a society end up footing the bill.

....And, we certainly wouldn't want to waste any cash on (much-less-expensive) preventative-efforts....'cause good-Christians need someone to point-towards, and proclaim "At LEAST I'm not one-o'-them!!"​

 

[Mr. Shaman]

It's a terribly bad idea that IS spreading onto other products.

Primatine Mist

If you don't need to use it, and you do, you can get 10 seconds of head spin and 30 seconds of blood rush as the heart speeds up. Apparently it gives models a "Flush look" [dont know what the means]

I have been carrying this around since my earliest memories. Now all of a sudden I will need a script to buy it in the future. A product that cost me $15 dollars, will now cost me a $35 co-pay.

It's an....

....old-story....​

 

[Mr. Shaman]

I know in Kalifornia they are kept behind the pharmacy counter too but all you have to do is ask for them, no prescription needed. They put them behind the counter so someone can't buy 20 or so at a time. 1 at a time is ok.

Here, in PA, you've gotta sign-on-the-line....for ALEVE-D....so they can keep-track/control of who's buying what & how-often....much like we had to do (back in '69/'70) to buy Robitussin Ac ("Ace").​

 

[Mr. Shaman]

The Meth Epidemic - Video | FRONTLINE | PBS

Oregon has apparently had some measurable success controlling meth addiction by putting Sudafed and products like it behind a prescription label, effectively killing the supply side by denying small kitchen labs the main ingredient. The statistics also owe a measure of success stemming from the good luck of the Oregon law happening at the same time the Mexican Government effectively put the Mexican factory labs out of business by banning the import of pseudoephedrine.

It looks like meth availability and use can be dramatically altered in America by how tightly We, The People control the sale of pseudoephedrine.

The political question I can't decide in my own mind is this: The Socialist horror of lives destroyed by Crystal Methadone and the fall out society pays for it -vs- the Liberal free enterprise sale of anything a consenting adult wants, including Sudafed - idiots too stupid to walk away from meth be damned, and Conserving the status quo Pharma-billion$ that go bye-bye if Congress decides to force America to get a 'scrip for cold medicine?

With the exception of not having any love-lost for the pharmaceutical lobby on the Conservative side, I really am not sure how I feel about this one?

Take a step back and ask yourself why we have a system that requires a Prescription for dangerous Drugs and Medicines in the first place???

Bu$ine$$ Is Bu$ine$$

 

[Trajan]

watch "Breaking Bad"....AMC ...

 

[AVG-JOE]

I'm leaning that way too... it's hard though, meth is incredibly ruinous. I can't quite bring myself to feel like the addicts are without choice in the matter but DAMN that is some serious self-abuse.

It is totally destructive.

....Kinda like guns, huh....or, is there some magical break, between the two....that guns are Only as dangerous as they're used., but you'll make that (same) call.....for everyone-else....when it comes to drugs?

​

That's the point I wrestle with - When does personal self abuse become a public problem?

 

[Mr. Shaman]

It is totally destructive.

....Kinda like guns, huh....or, is there some magical break, between the two....that guns are Only as dangerous as they're used., but you'll make that (same) call.....for everyone-else....when it comes to drugs?

​

That's the point I wrestle with - When does personal self abuse become a public problem?

....Only when it crosses-over into someone-else's air-space.​

 

[Two Thumbs]

It is totally destructive.

....Kinda like guns, huh....or, is there some magical break, between the two....that guns are Only as dangerous as they're used., but you'll make that (same) call.....for everyone-else....when it comes to drugs?

​

That's the point I wrestle with - When does personal self abuse become a public problem?

imo

The best bet is to end prohibition. The odds of it getting worse are long, since the dope will now be regulated and taxed.

Sure the will be an underground supply, but if you have the cash, why go with risky when you can get what you know isn't laced?