Croc Hunter holds baby

[Jackass]

I think Dan makes a great point. What if Dale Earheardt had put his kid in the car and did the Indy 500? No one would have a problem with that?

Also, no it wouldnt matter if his kid was not one month old. I dont care if he was six, he shouldnt be in there.

 

[Dan]

I think Dan makes a great point. What if Dale Earheardt had put his kid in the car and did the Indy 500? No one would have a problem with that?

I wasn't sure if you were being sarcastic. If you were, I reread my post and yeah it sounded a little silly. My point was, just because Steve Irwin does dumb things on a regular basis doesn't mean he should be allowed to do them to babies, whether they're his or not.

If you weren't being sarcastic, then yeah right on, that WAS an awesome point I made!

Incidentally, should we bring criminal child abuse charges on everyone who drives with their kids to the mall for a shopping spree? Or allows their child to play sports? Or takes an infant swim or gym class?

If a person is driving dangerously fast for a shopping spree for the entertainment of others, yes we should. If the children are being forced to participate in sports which entail danger and physical harm for the entertainment of others, yes we should.

It's probably obvious by now, but it's not necessarily his actions which disturbed me most (though they did, a little), it was that he did it in front of an audience, seemingly for their enjoyment.

Would it have made any difference if the child were not one month old?

To an extent, yeah. Once the child was old enough to deduce that there was danger involved in being in the water with a croc, if he went in on his own volition then, then I wouldn't care.

 

[jimnyc]

Just going to respond to a few more things.

Jackass wrote:

I dont know about everyday accurances. He specifically went looking for this stunt. It wasnt to teach his kid anything, it was just a stunt. His kid could have learned anything he needed to outside of the fence.

What I meant is that dealing with wildlife is an everyday occurence in Irwin's life, and is for many Australians. You and I may call it a stunt but he's been doing this crap his whole life. Is his whole life one big stunt? Look, I wouldn't do it and I know you wouldn't either, but this is a different guy in a much different place.

Dan wrote:

Dale Earnhardt, Jr. probably knows a lot more about cars than most people, does that mean he should strap his toddler to the hood and take a few laps at 100MPH?

Now you're comparing apples and oranges. How many people are killed by crocodiles per year? How many people are killed by automobiles per year?

A proper comparison would be to ask how many people would allow their child to play unattended with a Pit Bull. Pit Bulls are responsible for a hell of a lot more deaths per year than crocodiles. If you raised Pit Bulls your whole life, would you let you child play on the ground with one? I would, If I knew the animal well enough.

Jackass wrote:

I think Dan makes a great point. What if Dale Earheardt had put his kid in the car and did the Indy 500? No one would have a problem with that?

And what if a decorated soldier took his kid on an F-16 on a bombing run over Afghanistan? Like I said to Dan, we aren't exactly comparing apples and oranges here. You're comparing extreme circumstances to something that is natural. How many people are killed yearly by crocs, and how many of them were in controlled environments?

Dan wrote:

To an extent, yeah. Once the child was old enough to deduce that there was danger involved in being in the water with a croc, if he went in on his own volition then, then I wouldn't care.

Just an Fyi - he wasn't in the water. They were on land at a zoo, a zoo that Irwin owns himself.

I wonder how people would have felt about things when Steve Irwin was 9 years old. His Dad had him jump in the water at that age and restrain and capture his first crocodile!

Like I said earlier, this is a way of life for the Irwin family, and I don't believe it's my place to tell him what he should and shouldn't do with his child.

 

[lilcountriegal]

Every parent wants to protect their child. However, at some point you have to step back and let your child discover things (even dangerous things) on their own. Its the "hot stove" syndrome. Ya gotta get burned that one time to learn.

However, there is a difference between stepping back and letting your child learn things the hard way and intentionally putting them in a dangerous situation to learn that way.

(if that makes sense)

I think Dan's comparison to Dale Earnhardt (Jr.) is a great one. I love Nascar (YAY Feb 22!) and I watch it faithfully at home and at tracks. However, Nascar doesnt have a "take your child to work" day, and neither should Crocodile Hunters.

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by lilcountriegal
I think Dan's comparison to Dale Earnhardt (Jr.) is a great one. I love Nascar (YAY Feb 22!) and I watch it faithfully at home and at tracks. However, Nascar doesnt have a "take your child to work" day, and neither should Crocodile Hunters.

I'll have to disagree here again. Does Dale have a racetrack in his backyard that he was racing cars on since he was a baby?

Steve Irwin has his own zoo and has maintenance duties, which his wife and child are involved in daily. His child has not only been exposed to crocodiles, but many other animals as well (snakes, lizards, raccoons, koalas...) The child plays with the koalas all the time. Kinda odd for us, but a daily routine for them.

Again, this all only sounds nuts to us because it's not something we see or do often, if ever.

There are football leagues around the country that start kids at about the age of 5. The chances of injury in football is substantially higher than being exposed to animals at a zoo. Why do thousands of parents allow this? Because it's something we are accustomed to.

Let me reiterate, I would never do something like this with my child. But I'm also not an Aussie who has been living this life for the past 40 years.

 

[jimnyc]

I love Nascar (YAY Feb 22!) and I watch it faithfully at home and at tracks.

BTW - can you please post a picture of yourself semi-nude, wearing nothing more than a Jeff Gordon baseball cap?

 

[DKSuddeth]

regarding the dale earnhardt sample, just how do you think dale jr. learned to race cars? granted he wasn't one month old either but thats not the point. Someone (dan?) said something about steve taking the baby in the water, that didn't happen. It was a simple feeding event and that was it. The croc was a lot more interested in that dead chicken than he was steve or bob.

 

[lilcountriegal]

wearing nothing more than a Jeff Gordon baseball cap?

you wouldnt catch me dead wearing a Jeff Gordon anything.

 

[Jackass]

I think the comparison is a good one! Jim do you or I regularly drive around a race track at 200 mph?? No. But Dale Earheardt does, so to him it is an everyday occurance to him. We would all freak out if he did that with his child correct?

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by Jackass
I think the comparison is a good one! Jim do you or I regularly drive around a race track at 200 mph?? No. But Dale Earheardt does, so to him it is an everyday occurance to him. We would all freak out if he did that with his child correct?

Did you not read my apples and oranges reply? Did you lookup percentages of deaths resulting from crocodile attacks? And the percentages from car crashes? I see what you're trying to say here but they're really not similar.

This is my whole point, people will see every circumstance differently. We aren't Steve Irwin and we don't live in Australia.

I just think it's up to the parent to decide what they think is right and wrong for their children, unless there are laws being broken, which there weren't.

I think we agree that we wouldn't do that. We agree that to 'us' it was a careless thing to do. I think the buck stops there and HE is left to decide how to raise his child and whether or not he wants his child living amongst what 'we' consider dangerous animals. Who knows, maybe he'll reconsider and save the crocs for when the child gets a bit older.

 

[Jackass]

They arent apples to oranges. How do you figure they are? To Dale E its something he deals with everyday..same as Steve I. As to the death ratio..to me that isnt a point at all. The ratio of people around automoblies is MUCH greater than the ratio of people around crocs. To ME that is comparing apples to oranges. Of course the death toll will be higher with automobiles!!

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by Jackass
They arent apples to oranges. How do you figure they are? To Dale E its something he deals with everyday..same as Steve I. As to the death ratio..to me that isnt a point at all. The ratio of people around automoblies is MUCH greater than the ratio of people around crocs. To ME that is comparing apples to oranges. Of course the death toll will be higher with automobiles!!

I figure they are apples and oranges because you are comparing wildlife to a man made machine. Dale may deal with racing daily, but it's something that has been predetermined to have age restrictions. Interacting with wildlife has no restrictions in that manner and is left up to the individual.

And not the point? The ENTIRE point here is the danger factor involved. Whether you look at the NYC or LA area, or the Australian outback, the odds of getting attacked by a croc is much less than being involved in an auto accident.

All the debating about what we feel is right and wrong only solidifies what I'm saying, that the parenting decisions should be left up to the parents, unless law has dictated something else.

 

[Jackass]

Originally posted by jimnyc

And not the point? The ENTIRE point here is the danger factor involved. Whether you look at the NYC or LA area, or the Australian outback, the odds of getting attacked by a croc is much less than being involved in an auto accident.

Actually...if your talking about the Outback, Im pretty sure getting attacked by a croc is at least close to or more of a chance than getting hit by a car.

Graeme Kessey???

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by Jackass
Actually...if your talking about the Outback, Im pretty sure getting attacked by a croc is at least close to or more of a chance than getting hit by a car.

Graeme Kessey???

Ok, you took a literal translation of the 'Outback'. Yes, I would have to say croc attacks would be more prevalent in the outback. I used that term too loosely, as I don't believe Steve Irwin lives in the Outback.

Let's just say Australia, where the ratio of cars and crocodile population is MUCH different than here.

I'm curious too! Hopefully Graeme can give us a better idea about the likelihood of getting attacked. Everything I have read has made it sound less often than people fear. I know croc attacks in the states is only a handful per year.

 

[Dan]

Everything I have read has made it sound less often than people fear. I know croc attacks in the states is only a handful per year.

Yeah, but this may have as much to do with the lack of crocs in the states rather than their docility.

A proper comparison would be to ask how many people would allow their child to play unattended with a Pit Bull. Pit Bulls are responsible for a hell of a lot more deaths per year than crocodiles. If you raised Pit Bulls your whole life, would you let you child play on the ground with one? I would, If I knew the animal well enough.

Well, first of all, Steve isn't really "raising" these animals, as someone else noted, this is a wildlife preserve, and outside of being fed, these animals aren't trained or anything. That said, if a father had wild pit bulls caged up and untrained around his house for many years, no I still don't think his one-month-old son should be playing with them.

And, yeah, I was wrong about the baby being in the water, I didn't put any thought into that. I did, however, see him marching the baby on the ground on the edge of the water, and as fast as crocs are, that would be just as dangerous as him being in the water.

 

[DKSuddeth]

Originally posted by Dan
Yeah, but this may have as much to do with the lack of crocs in the states rather than their docility.



Well, first of all, Steve isn't really "raising" these animals, as someone else noted, this is a wildlife preserve, and outside of being fed, these animals aren't trained or anything. That said, if a father had wild pit bulls caged up and untrained around his house for many years, no I still don't think his one-month-old son should be playing with them.

And, yeah, I was wrong about the baby being in the water, I didn't put any thought into that. I did, however, see him marching the baby on the ground on the edge of the water, and as fast as crocs are, that would be just as dangerous as him being in the water.

Not being 'trained' or raised it what makes these animals even more predictable. As far as marching Bob by the waters edge, there are a max of two crocs per pen, a male and a female. Murray (croc in question) has one mate and when anyone steps into any pen they always make sure they know where both crocs are at. It doesn't say in the article but I would imagine that both crocs were out of the water and on the other side of the pen if steve had his kid by the waters edge.

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by Dan
Well, first of all, Steve isn't really "raising" these animals, as someone else noted, this is a wildlife preserve, and outside of being fed, these animals aren't trained or anything.

Double check your facts, he OWNS the Australia Zoo reptile park. I don't think there really is any formail training of a crocodile, but he has been feeding and caring for these specific crocs daily. When they're hungry, he feeds them. If they're sick, he handles them. He cleans their living areas. He moves them when necessary. I'd say he IS raising them.

** Edit - Maybe he doesn't own it, but I did confirm he is listed as director. And he does feed and care for animals there daily **

That said, if a father had wild pit bulls caged up and untrained around his house for many years, no I still don't think his one-month-old son should be playing with them.

The point was that the Pit Bull is considered a dangerous animal. Circumstances with this animal will change depending on who is 'raising' him.

And, yeah, I was wrong about the baby being in the water, I didn't put any thought into that. I did, however, see him marching the baby on the ground on the edge of the water, and as fast as crocs are, that would be just as dangerous as him being in the water.

He went out long enough to feed the croc, something he has pretty much done his whole life. We don't know how crocs react when being fed, but I'm confident that Steve did. When interviewed he explained how they smell the meat from a long distance away, and that is all they are focused on. Still sounds scary to me, and you couldn't pay me to get into that pen, but he's the expert.

 

[Jackass]

You could say the same thing about Dale E couldnt you? He knows the dangers..he is the expert??

 

[Jmarie]

How can you compare Micheal Jackson to Steve? First Micheal's was dumb and can't even be explained. hell he can't even be explained. for Steve and what he did, I think it was just every day thing for him to do. he works with them everyday of his live. and who are we to sit here and tell him if he is doing something wrong or right. i say whatever..did the baby get hurt? NO. than who cares it's his kid not mine to say if he was right or not..

 

[Jackass]

Did Michael Jackson's baby get hurt?? NO. So then its ok what he did??