Crawling to godless science?

[Kalam]

Have you ever stopped to consider what has actually been proved in life? Very little.

Truth is truth regardless whether you believe it or not. Facts are facts.

Nothing is true unless its truth can be demonstrated logically and/or empirically.

The First Law of Thermodynamics was proven with a repeatable experiment by James Prescott Joule and it says Energy can neither be created nor destroyed. That means you can't get something from nothing and energy has always existed and will always exist in the exact same total quantity. Energy is a constant.

Wrong. "The level of energy in an isolated system remains constant" is a more accurate expression of this law. What thermodynamics were there that preceded the existence of matter? The isolated system in question only began to be regulated by its own laws, including the first law of thermodynamics, once it was created - not before. The universe was created with a given amount of energy; that energy has since remained constant according to the first law. Laws apply to what already exists.

 

[edthecynic]

Nothing is true unless its truth can be demonstrated logically and/or empirically.

The First Law of Thermodynamics was proven with a repeatable experiment by James Prescott Joule and it says Energy can neither be created nor destroyed. That means you can't get something from nothing and energy has always existed and will always exist in the exact same total quantity. Energy is a constant.

Wrong. "The level of energy in an isolated system remains constant" is a more accurate expression of this law. What thermodynamics were there that preceded the existence of matter? The isolated system in question only began to be regulated by its own laws, including the first law of thermodynamics, once it was created - not before. The universe was created with a given amount of energy; that energy has since remained constant according to the first law. Laws apply to what already exists.

Matter is a form of energy and energy has been PROVEN to have always existed and will never cease to exist.
Energy is a SOMETHING and you can't get something from NOTHING. If energy came from God, what THING is God??????

 

[Toro]

Or are we all just part of an ants dream, and once it wakes up we cease to exist?

HEATHEN!

We are all part of a BADGER'S dream!

You are going straight to hell...

But ... but .. the penguins told me it was an ant, and penguins are never wrong. They said the ant told them so.

Penguins are Satan's minions.

 

[Kalam]

I already corrected you on another thread.

Actually, you slunk away from that thread with your tail between your legs. If you want to continue our discussion, do it there.

Only in your DISHONEST dreams!!!
You cut and ran from my last post!!!

http://www.usmessageboard.com/science-and-technology/65844-the-universe-eternal-or-no-18.html

The thread didn't appear as updated in my User CP. My bad. Anyway, problem's solved now.

 

[Kalam]

Matter is a form of energy and energy has been PROVEN to have always existed and will never cease to exist.

Matter has always existed within this isolated system. Science has shown us that the universe almost certainly had a beginning. If physical laws were somehow in effect before the existence of the physical universe as you suggest, the very same first law of thermodynamics would have prevented the universe from coming into existence in the first place.

Energy is a SOMETHING and you can't get something from NOTHING. If energy came from God, what THING is God??????

God is ineffable - we can only accurately describe God using things that God is not. Since the physical universe was created by God, God is not physical and is therefore "formless," to put it crudely. God is not matter/energy because those things exist within creation.

 

[edthecynic]

Matter is a form of energy and energy has been PROVEN to have always existed and will never cease to exist.

Matter has always existed within this isolated system. Science has shown us that the universe almost certainly had a beginning. If physical laws were somehow in effect before the existence of the physical universe as you suggest, the very same first law of thermodynamics would have prevented the universe from coming into existence in the first place.

Science has actually shown that TIME had a beginning, NOT energy.

You have time and energy flip-flopped! You think time is eternal and constant and energy had a beginning.
Time had a beginning, it speeds up and slows down depending on its speed. Time is not constant, time is RELATIVE.

 

[edthecynic]

Energy is a SOMETHING and you can't get something from NOTHING. If energy came from God, what THING is God??????

God is ineffable - we can only accurately describe God using things that God is not. Since the physical universe was created by God, God is not physical and is therefore "formless," to put it crudely. God is not matter/energy because those things exist within creation.

Pure jabberwocky!

 

[JBeukema]

The laws of physics as we know them did not exist prior to BB, for there was no matter, no graviton, and none of the energy spectrum we know to exist. You cannot apply the laws of an enclosed system to something outside of the system

 

[Kalam]

Science has actually shown that TIME had a beginning, NOT energy.

Energy, mass, and time are all fundamentally related. The hypothetical existence of one without the others would be completely meaningless - describe the existence of energy in the absence of time for us.

You have time and energy flip-flopped! You think time is eternal and constant and energy had a beginning.

I never said anything of the sort. Nice fucking strawman.

Time had a beginning, it speeds up and slows down depending on its speed. Time is not constant, time is RELATIVE.

Hot damn, Einstein, you should call that one the "theory of relativity"!

 

[Kalam]

Energy is a SOMETHING and you can't get something from NOTHING. If energy came from God, what THING is God??????

God is ineffable - we can only accurately describe God using things that God is not. Since the physical universe was created by God, God is not physical and is therefore "formless," to put it crudely. God is not matter/energy because those things exist within creation.

Pure jabberwocky!

What about that are you unable to comprehend?

 

[k2skier]

If only you could prove that.

Have you ever stopped to consider what has actually been proved in life? Very little.

Truth is truth regardless whether you believe it or not. Facts are facts.

And the facts are; when one tires to prove god exists, they sound crazier than those who say it doesn't exist. because, as of now, no one can prove a creator either way, in theory only.

Anyone see the science channel's (?) show on parallel universes, hurt my head...

 

[edthecynic]

Science has actually shown that TIME had a beginning, NOT energy.

Energy, mass, and time are all fundamentally related. The hypothetical existence of one without the others would be completely meaningless - describe the existence of energy in the absence of time for us.

Sure, your own theoretical "thermodynamic equilibrium" requires it, if you understood it.
You see, time exists ONLY in terms of motion. Kinetic energy is the energy of motion, and thermodynamic equilibrium requires that all energy exists ONLY as heat, so no motion can exist. So without motion time ceases to exist but the heat energy still does.

 

[JBeukema]

Sure, your own theoretical "thermodynamic equilibrium" requires it, if you understood it.
You see, time exists ONLY in terms of motion. Kinetic energy is the energy of motion, and thermodynamic equilibrium requires that all energy exists ONLY as heat, so no motion can exist. So without motion time ceases to exist but the heat energy still does.

you mean like thermal death...? Does the energy of the electrons orbiting the nucleus dissipate? Will the universe reach such a state (assuming no Big Crunch)? I mean... the heat would eventually contact matter, right,? The matter would energize and radiate the heat.. it might be stop-and-go, but I can't see the universe ever remaining at absolute zero... ed, you're confusing the laymen... and you never translated that equation.. even a link... something...?

 

[Evangelical]

The bible says believers will lay hands upon the sick and heal them. All- death, life, health, and sickness- is god's will. Indeed, the bible says god is the source of all darkness and evil. Why, then, if they believe, do christians trust the lives of their children not to god but to godless science- to satan (as all comes from god or satan, according t christian doctrine), to knowledge gained through desecration of corpses and rejection of religious dogma? If they really believe, then why do they not ask their god for help and accept whatever god wills? Why do they come crawling to the ungodly heathens to ask for our science to save them when it really matters?

Your argument is flawed.

The Bible says that the persons charged by Christ to be as Disciples and Evangelize would have that power, He did not refer to the entirety to the Church for all the existence of the Church.

Only fringe Protestant groups believe in healing hands, and while maybe there is some cases of that, like speaking in tongues it is no longer the responsibility of the Church.

The Church had that power then to convert persons who never even heard of God ("Look what we can do"), once the Church was established it was never seen as being continued.

And there's no record of such healing in the early Church after the second or so centuries for example.

 

[JBeukema]

Your argument is flawed.

The Bible says that the persons charged by Christ to be as Disciples and Evangelize would have that power, He did not refer to the entirety to the Church for all the existence of the Church.

Quote, please. In other words, the gas ran out and god couldn't keep it up? Or was it that he stopped caring and wanting to demonstrate his power over heathen gods so that the masses could be saved (like why he never showed up for anyone else)?

like speaking in tongues it is no longer the responsibility of the Church.

Responsibility of the church? I thought it was a sign of god? So, the church made the flames.. was it a scam, you say?

The Church had that power then to convert persons who never even heard of God ("Look what we can do"), once the Church was established it was never seen as being continued.

Sounds a lot like 'Mission accomplished'

And there's no record of such healing in the early Church after the second or so centuries for example.

In other words, the hysteria died down, and people got their senses back

 

[JBeukema]

Your argument is flawed.

The Bible says that the persons charged by Christ to be as Disciples and Evangelize would have that power, He did not refer to the entirety to the Church for all the existence of the Church.

Quote, please. In other words, the gas ran out and god couldn't keep it up? Or was it that he stopped caring and wanting to demonstrate his power over heathen gods so that the masses could be saved (like why he never showed up for anyone else)?

like speaking in tongues it is no longer the responsibility of the Church.

Responsibility of the church? I thought it was a sign of god? So, the church made the flames.. was it a scam, you say?

The Church had that power then to convert persons who never even heard of God ("Look what we can do"), once the Church was established it was never seen as being continued.

Sounds a lot like 'Mission accomplished'

And there's no record of such healing in the early Church after the second or so centuries for example.

In other words, the hysteria died down, and people got their senses back

 

[Avatar4321]

Nothing is true unless its truth can be demonstrated logically and/or empirically.

So until the truth the truth that "the world is round" is demonstrated logically and/or empirically, the world is not round?

Our observations dont determine the truth of a matter.

My shirt is green. I cant prove that to you because I dont have a camera. Does that mean its not true?

There are plenty of things are true that cannot be proved, explained, or even recognized. Does that make them suddenly false? Of course not.

Why do you people limit your mind so much?

 

[edthecynic]

Sure, your own theoretical "thermodynamic equilibrium" requires it, if you understood it.
You see, time exists ONLY in terms of motion. Kinetic energy is the energy of motion, and thermodynamic equilibrium requires that all energy exists ONLY as heat, so no motion can exist. So without motion time ceases to exist but the heat energy still does.

you mean like thermal death...? Does the energy of the electrons orbiting the nucleus dissipate? Will the universe reach such a state (assuming no Big Crunch)? I mean... the heat would eventually contact matter, right,? The matter would energize and radiate the heat.. it might be stop-and-go, but I can't see the universe ever remaining at absolute zero... ed, you're confusing the laymen... and you never translated that equation.. even a link... something...?

I already told him that the heat death of the universe violated the Third Law, there is no temperature at which all motion stops (Absolute Zero). But he wouldn't accept it so I tried to show him with his own thermal equilibrium that he thinks can exist.

And the point of the equation was that entropy in a closed system CAN equal zero and when entropy equals zero it is NOT increasing to a max. His thermodynamic equilibrium requires that entropy is always a positive number and can never equal zero.

A perfect example of a closed system with an entropy of zero is a stable atom with the electrons you mentioned in orbit around the nucleus. If entropy could not equal zero then the negatively charged electrons would have to lose speed and would not be able to resist being pulled into the positively charged nucleus. No matter could exist as a result.

"In concise form, the second law, as formulated mathematically in 1862 by German physicist Rudolf Clausius, states that in a cyclical heat-driven process which is in any way possible the following relation will always hold:

where dQ is an element of the heat given up by a body to any reservoir of heat during its own changes, heat which it may absorb from a reservoir being here reckoned as negative, and T is the absolute temperature of the body at the moment of giving up this heat. [1] The quantity "dQ/T" is called entropy."

 

[Avatar4321]

And the facts are; when one tires to prove god exists, they sound crazier than those who say it doesn't exist. because, as of now, no one can prove a creator either way, in theory only.

Anyone see the science channel's (?) show on parallel universes, hurt my head...

The facts are, God could easy be proven if people were willing to get off their butts and experiment on the Word like He asks. When you recieve revelation with power its impossible to ignore the source.

 

[Avatar4321]

Your argument is flawed.

The Bible says that the persons charged by Christ to be as Disciples and Evangelize would have that power, He did not refer to the entirety to the Church for all the existence of the Church.

Only fringe Protestant groups believe in healing hands, and while maybe there is some cases of that, like speaking in tongues it is no longer the responsibility of the Church.

The Church had that power then to convert persons who never even heard of God ("Look what we can do"), once the Church was established it was never seen as being continued.

And there's no record of such healing in the early Church after the second or so centuries for example.

His argument may be flawed, but it sure as heck isnt for your reason. Why do you imagine yourself a changing God? God has always been a God of miracles. He has always been one to heal those who have faith.

The Gifts of the Spirit are still active in the Church of Jesus Christ. If you dont see them its because you either lack faith or arent affiliated with Christ's Church.