Bull Ring Coyote Vs TNH

Discussion in 'The Bull Ring' started by TNHarley, Feb 17, 2017.

  1. TNHarley
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    TNHarley Diamond Member

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    Pretty much.
    You WILL have equality because EVERYONE has the same rights. If someone doesn't, liberty doesnt exist.
     
  2. Coyote
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    Coyote Varmint Staff Member Gold Supporting Member

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    I agree - society doesn't GRANT equality - the state does - driven by society in a democratic system.

    But while the state can GRANT it, society creates the reality of it.
     
  3. Coyote
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    Coyote Varmint Staff Member Gold Supporting Member

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    So you are saying Liberty means equality of RIGHTS. Ok, on that I can agree.

    But Liberty doesn't necessarily mean equality, and equality can exist without Liberty so they aren't the same thing.
     
  4. TNHarley
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    TNHarley Diamond Member

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    Society doesn't create the reality because society cant take it away.
     
  5. TNHarley
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    TNHarley Diamond Member

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    Liberty cant exist without equality. It just cant. If equality doesn't exist, it isn't liberty. The ENTIRE concept of liberty is based on "equality".
     
  6. Coyote
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    Coyote Varmint Staff Member Gold Supporting Member

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    Yes it can.

    Let's go back to individual rights - in particular the right to refuse service for any reason, which has come up a lot recently.

    Let's say you have a small minority, among a large majority, that is percieved as immoral or abhorant due to religious beliefs of the majority. As a result, they can deny medical treatment, emergency services, hotel accommodations, employment, entry to facilities and housing. The majority is engaging in their individual right to say "no". The minority has the same right. They are equal in granted rights.

    But where is the equality in circumstances? Equality of rights alone is meaningless if those rights can't be adequately exercised due to society.
     
  7. Coyote
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    Coyote Varmint Staff Member Gold Supporting Member

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    Yes, it can - society can curtail the expression of one's rights, which effects equality.
     
  8. TNHarley
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    TNHarley Diamond Member

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    It doesn't matter. If someone got forced to do something they wanted, equality wouldn't exist for them.
    This goes along with that fallacious "social equality" bullshit the Marxists came up with to attack liberty and capitalism. People get told no. It has nothing to do with liberty. You might have a point if one group COULDNT tell someone no, but then equality and liberty wouldn't exist anyways.
     
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  9. TNHarley
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    TNHarley Diamond Member

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    See, this is what I was getting at earlier. You cant battle liberty and equality when the rights you are fighting for doesn't even EXIST.
    Being told NO is the PERFECT example of liberty in the works.
     
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  10. Coyote
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    Coyote Varmint Staff Member Gold Supporting Member

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    But likewise, if someone is prevented from doing something - exercising their rights - by society - then equality doesn't exist for that person. They have equal RIGHTS but they don't have EQUALITY.
     

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