Court-martial begins in Marine killing of 24 Iraqis

[High_Gravity]

Court-martial begins in Marine killing of 24 Iraqis

Reporting from Camp Pendleton— U.S. combat involvement in Iraq is over, but the controversial events of one of the bloodiest mornings involving U.S. troops in that eight-year war are now the focus of a high-profile court-martial here.

The day was Nov. 19, 2005, when Marines fatally shot 24 Iraqis in the village of Haditha in a failed search for insurgents who had just detonated a roadside bomb that killed one Marine and severely injured two others.

An eight-man jury — made up entirely of combat veterans — is asked to decide whether a squad leader acted out of vengeance or was merely following orders and standard procedure when he led his Marines into nearby homes where, without asking questions, they began firing their M-16s and hurling grenades.

Among Iraqis killed were three women, seven children and a 76-year-old man in a wheelchair.

Staff Sgt. Frank Wuterich, 31, the squad leader, is charged with manslaughter, assault and dereliction of duty. The charges carry a penalty of 152 years in prison.

The prosecution says Wuterich, agonized by the death of a fellow Marine, lost control of himself and led his squad. The defense says Wuterich responded the way he was trained to do when Marines are under fire from hidden gunmen.

Much of the trial will center on questions about the "rules of engagement" — specifically whether Marines need to make individual determinations that attackers have "hostile intent" before killing them — and on the responsibility of a squad leader for the actions of young Marines under his command.

The case also brings up a dilemma that remains relevant to U.S. forces in Afghanistan: What code of conduct can be expected of Marines or soldiers when they are fighting an enemy that hides behind women and children?

Maj. Nicholas Gannon, the lead prosecutor, told jurors Monday that Wuterich made "a series of fatal assumptions and lost control of himself" — first in killing five young men outside their car and then in giving his Marines a "shoot-to-kill" order when they swept through the houses.

Gannon said that even after it was known that the dead in the houses included women and children, Wuterich insisted to a military investigator that his Marines "did their job, they did it well."

"The evidence will show that none of the victims were a threat," Gannon said.

To a military investigator, Wuterich had said, "I told [his Marines] to treat the house as a hostile environment. I told them 'shoot first, ask questions later.' "

Testimony will show that Wuterich stood at the foot of a bed where a woman and child were cowering in fear and shot them in the head, Gannon said.

But lead defense attorney Haytham Faraj said that Wuterich had followed his orders and the rules of engagement after being told by a lieutenant to "clear" houses near the explosion that ripped apart the Humvee and killed Cpl. Miguel Terrazas.

The Marines, Faraj said, were under fire from the houses and needed to respond. The deaths, he said, were "the unfortunate result of a squad leader doing the best he could that day."

Repeatedly, Faraj asked the jurors — all veterans of Iraq or Afghanistan — to use their knowledge of combat and of "clearing" occupied houses to determine if Wuterich acted properly and whether other Marines, given immunity to testify against him, are being truthful.

"You have a bunch of scared Marines," he said.

Court-martial begins in Marine killing of 24 Iraqis - latimes.com

 

[Douger]

"Meatheads gone wild" would be a more interesting title.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Every other Marine charged has had those charges dropped. This SSgt did his job in my opinion.

 

[High_Gravity]

"Meatheads gone wild" would be a more interesting title.

Fuck you Douger.

 

[MikeK]

Every other Marine charged has had those charges dropped. This SSgt did his job in my opinion.

Whether he did his job or his job did him is subject to discussion at a level which is well beyond that of typical courts martial concerns. I hope this NCO's lawyer brings one or two appropriately oriented behaviorists in as expert witnesses on the matter of temporary insanity -- which defines what our government has exposed our troops to in Iraq and Afghanistan. Organized insanity!

This case is a recurrence of the infamous My Lai Massacre in Vietnam, which was another prime example of the kind of madness that comes from sustained exposure to lethal violence. Some people simply cannot maintain rational composure and they behave in ways which are considered psychopathic under normal circumstances but normal under psychopathic circumstances.

Condition someone to kill and it becomes second nature to him. But in spite of that consideration they are about to make a scapegoat of this Marine.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Every other Marine charged has had those charges dropped. This SSgt did his job in my opinion.

Whether he did his job or his job did him is subject to discussion at a level which is well beyond that of typical courts martial concerns. I hope this NCO's lawyer brings one or two appropriately oriented behaviorists in as expert witnesses on the matter of temporary insanity -- which defines what our government has exposed our troops to in Iraq and Afghanistan. Organized insanity!

This case is a recurrence of the infamous My Lai Massacre in Vietnam, which was another prime example of the kind of madness that comes from sustained exposure to lethal violence. Some people simply cannot maintain rational composure and they behave in ways which are considered psychopathic under normal circumstances but normal under psychopathic circumstances.

Condition someone to kill and it becomes second nature to him. But in spite of that consideration they are about to make a scapegoat of this Marine.

He did not murder anyone. He carried out the assigned mission. He is neither crazy or psychopathic. He followed approved procedures and orders given. As did his men, that is why NONE of them were sustained on the charges. The Government has brow beat some of his men into lying about what happened most likely.

 

[MikeK]

Every other Marine charged has had those charges dropped. This SSgt did his job in my opinion.

Whether he did his job or his job did him is subject to discussion at a level which is well beyond that of typical courts martial concerns. I hope this NCO's lawyer brings one or two appropriately oriented behaviorists in as expert witnesses on the matter of temporary insanity -- which defines what our government has exposed our troops to in Iraq and Afghanistan. Organized insanity!

This case is a recurrence of the infamous My Lai Massacre in Vietnam, which was another prime example of the kind of madness that comes from sustained exposure to lethal violence. Some people simply cannot maintain rational composure and they behave in ways which are considered psychopathic under normal circumstances but normal under psychopathic circumstances.

Condition someone to kill and it becomes second nature to him. But in spite of that consideration they are about to make a scapegoat of this Marine.

He did not murder anyone. He carried out the assigned mission. He is neither crazy or psychopathic. He followed approved procedures and orders given. As did his men, that is why NONE of them were sustained on the charges. The Government has brow beat some of his men into lying about what happened most likely.

After spending 20+ years in the Corps I wouldn't bet heavily on your mental stability either. Four years of that lunacy was quite enough for me.

 

[High_Gravity]

Frank Wuterich Trial To Continue Friday

CAMP PENDLETON, Calif. — Court proceedings were scheduled to reconvene Friday in the trial of a major Iraq war crimes case, after a military judge excused jurors for nearly two days and asked lawyers to explore their options.

The judge's actions fueled speculation that a plea deal was in the works that could end the trial of Staff Sgt. Frank Wuterich of Meriden, Conn., who led a squad that killed 24 unarmed Iraqi civilians.

But defense attorney Neal Puckett told The Associated Press late Thursday that he expected a full day of testimony Friday, with a squad mate and a forensic scientist with the Naval Criminal Investigative Service expected to take the stand.

Wuterich led the squad that killed 24 Iraqis during raids on homes in the town of Haditha in 2005 after a roadside bomb killed one Marine. He faces nine counts of involuntary manslaughter, among other charges.

Puckett said prosecutors also will show outtakes from an interview that Wuterich gave in 2007 to CBS's "60 Minutes." The trial was delayed for years by pre-trial wrangling between the defense and prosecution, including over whether the military could use the unaired outtakes. Prosecutors eventually won the right to view the footage.

The all-Marine jury at Camp Pendleton, Calif., was excused after a lunch break Wednesday.

The judge, Lt. Col. David Jones, told lawyers after jurors left the room to explore their options. He called for the court to be back in session at 1 p.m. Thursday. But 30 minutes before then, military officials told reporters the jury had been informed not to come back until Friday morning.

Wuterich is one of eight Marines initially charged. None has been convicted.

Wuterich has said he regretted the loss of civilian lives but believed he was operating within military combat rules.

Prosecutors have argued Wuterich lost control of himself after seeing the body of his friend blown apart by the bomb.

Frank Wuterich Trial To Continue Friday

 

[eots]

how can we ever forgive those inhuman Iraqies for making this fine young man murder their children??

 

[Warrior102]

On Facebook - This group is made to support Lieutenant Colonel Jeffrey R. Chessani and the rest of the Marines who were falsely accused of war crimes against Iraqis in Haditha, Iraq 2005. These Marines are American heroes for serving their country and defending themselves in harms way. Our support and prayers go out to them and their families.

 

[Warrior102]

Whether he did his job or his job did him is subject to discussion at a level which is well beyond that of typical courts martial concerns. I hope this NCO's lawyer brings one or two appropriately oriented behaviorists in as expert witnesses on the matter of temporary insanity -- which defines what our government has exposed our troops to in Iraq and Afghanistan. Organized insanity!

This case is a recurrence of the infamous My Lai Massacre in Vietnam, which was another prime example of the kind of madness that comes from sustained exposure to lethal violence. Some people simply cannot maintain rational composure and they behave in ways which are considered psychopathic under normal circumstances but normal under psychopathic circumstances.

Condition someone to kill and it becomes second nature to him. But in spite of that consideration they are about to make a scapegoat of this Marine.

He did not murder anyone. He carried out the assigned mission. He is neither crazy or psychopathic. He followed approved procedures and orders given. As did his men, that is why NONE of them were sustained on the charges. The Government has brow beat some of his men into lying about what happened most likely.

After spending 20+ years in the Corps I wouldn't bet heavily on your mental stability either. Four years of that lunacy was quite enough for me.

Couldn't take it, huh?

 

[High_Gravity]

how can we ever forgive those inhuman Iraqies for making this fine young man murder their children??

Shut the fuck up clown, you don't know jack shit what happened in Haditha so shut your pie hole.

 

[High_Gravity]

On Facebook - This group is made to support Lieutenant Colonel Jeffrey R. Chessani and the rest of the Marines who were falsely accused of war crimes against Iraqis in Haditha, Iraq 2005. These Marines are American heroes for serving their country and defending themselves in harms way. Our support and prayers go out to them and their families.

What's the name of this group?

 

[Warrior102]

On Facebook - This group is made to support Lieutenant Colonel Jeffrey R. Chessani and the rest of the Marines who were falsely accused of war crimes against Iraqis in Haditha, Iraq 2005. These Marines are American heroes for serving their country and defending themselves in harms way. Our support and prayers go out to them and their families.

What's the name of this group?

Support Haditha Hoax Marines

 

[The Gadfly]

how can we ever forgive those inhuman Iraqies for making this fine young man murder their children??

You ever had to fight an enemy that didn't wear a uniform, and hid among civilians? No? Well, I have. Your opinion is duly noted. My opinion, is that you don't know what the hell you are talking about! Everyone else here, can decide which one of us has more relevant experience from which to render a judgment.

 

[High_Gravity]

how can we ever forgive those inhuman Iraqies for making this fine young man murder their children??

You ever had to fight an enemy that didn't wear a uniform, and hid among civilians? No? Well, I have. Your opinion is duly noted. My opinion, is that you don't know what the hell you are talking about! Everyone else here, can decide which one of us has more relevant experience from which to render a judgment.

The only combat experience eots has is playing Medal of Honor on PS3 in her underwear.

 

[eots]

how can we ever forgive those inhuman Iraqies for making this fine young man murder their children??

You ever had to fight an enemy that didn't wear a uniform, and hid among civilians? No? Well, I have. Your opinion is duly noted. My opinion, is that you don't know what the hell you are talking about! Everyone else here, can decide which one of us has more relevant experience from which to render a judgment.

The only combat experience eots has is playing Medal of Honor on PS3 in her underwear.

Hey its not my fault I had skills and could be lucratively employed in the private sector and did not need to join the military

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SeZmwE1oboE]U.S. Army Training (STRIPES) - YouTube[/ame]

 

[The Gadfly]

Every other Marine charged has had those charges dropped. This SSgt did his job in my opinion.

Whether he did his job or his job did him is subject to discussion at a level which is well beyond that of typical courts martial concerns. I hope this NCO's lawyer brings one or two appropriately oriented behaviorists in as expert witnesses on the matter of temporary insanity -- which defines what our government has exposed our troops to in Iraq and Afghanistan. Organized insanity!

This case is a recurrence of the infamous My Lai Massacre in Vietnam, which was another prime example of the kind of madness that comes from sustained exposure to lethal violence. Some people simply cannot maintain rational composure and they behave in ways which are considered psychopathic under normal circumstances but normal under psychopathic circumstances.

Condition someone to kill and it becomes second nature to him. But in spite of that consideration they are about to make a scapegoat of this Marine.

This is no My Lai. There's no question that Calley's platoon took ZERO hostile fire from My Lai, or that they subsequently contravened the ROE, by shooting obvious non-combatants clearly visible, in the open. That's very different from clearing the inside of a darkened house, at night. In this instance, the Marines involved took hostile fire from those houses. The question here, is what the precise ROE were. I do know this; under the ROE we had in Vietnam, I could, upon receiving hostile fire from a group of hooches, order my men to "Light 'em up!", and I did, more than once. If there was automatic weapons fire coming from a hooch, I had ZERO obligation to look inside before tossing in a grenade. If there was anyone in there who was not a VC, I guess it was not his/her lucky day-tough! It was legal, it was in compliance with standing orders and the ROE, and I make no apologies for it. I dson't really care what anyone's uninformed opinion is in the matter-you weren't there!

 

[High_Gravity]

You ever had to fight an enemy that didn't wear a uniform, and hid among civilians? No? Well, I have. Your opinion is duly noted. My opinion, is that you don't know what the hell you are talking about! Everyone else here, can decide which one of us has more relevant experience from which to render a judgment.

The only combat experience eots has is playing Medal of Honor on PS3 in her underwear.

Hey its not my fault I had skills and could be lucratively employed in the private sector and did not need to join the military

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SeZmwE1oboE]U.S. Army Training (STRIPES) - YouTube[/ame]

Being a fluffer for gay porn stars does not count as lucrative employment slut.

 

[The Gadfly]

You ever had to fight an enemy that didn't wear a uniform, and hid among civilians? No? Well, I have. Your opinion is duly noted. My opinion, is that you don't know what the hell you are talking about! Everyone else here, can decide which one of us has more relevant experience from which to render a judgment.

The only combat experience eots has is playing Medal of Honor on PS3 in her underwear.

Hey its not my fault I had skills and could be lucratively employed in the private sector and did not need to join the military

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SeZmwE1oboE]U.S. Army Training (STRIPES) - YouTube[/ame]

The question is not whether it's your fault or not, but the FACT that you still have exactly ZERO relevant experience.